Shop: Opinions wanted

[gomer pyle]

I'm hoping to start a shop this spring. I pretty set on a 30x40 but after that I'm not sure. I do want to insulate it well (ie roll insulation and not the wrap) and I think I want two roll up doors for a draft in the summer. I do plan to use metal rafters to keep the center open for a lift in the future

 

1. How should I do the slab? 6x6 post in the concrete(I worry about them rotting off), 6x6 post on top of the concrete(how strong is this way), standard house construction studded walls, two blocks up and then standard house walls(I think this is what I want but I'm not sure how it will affect cost)

 

2. How thick should the concrete be? I've been told 4" is standard but ....

 

3. How high should the walls be? I guess door size will help determine this but I was thinking 10'

 

4. What size doors? I'm thinking 12-14 wide by 10-12 tall

 

5. What size lean-to? I want to put my trailer and possibly my tractor under it, so I was thinking 12' wide 

 

I will probably do this as a shell first so it can be a "tractor shed" for codes and then I plan to finish it out myself (wiring, insulation, OSB). I don't plan to put any plumbing in it, I will probably add an outdoor spigot later on.

 

What am I missing?

[Ugly]

With that type of insulation I would just frame it like a house.

Do you need blocks for the slab due to grade? Otherwise you shouldn't need em.

That size is good but I would make it as big as you can afford and fit. 10 ft height is good but will add some $ for 2x4's, perhaps a pole barn and different insulation would be cheaper. I would draw it out and figure materials for both methods.

I would probably go with as wide a door as you need, no more. For cost and insulation reasons. Perhaps one wider than the other
I would add an I beam for a hoist and also look into the property tax implications.
I'd consider a couple of windows and a wood stove too.

[gomer pyle]

What other insulation options do I have that still give a good R level? The back door will be smaller as it will mostly just be for ventilation. I did think about windows but kinda worried about break-ins, but the natural light and view might be worth it.
I may price 8 and 10 walls. I don't think I need 10, honestly I'm not really sure why or how I came up with 10.

[56FordGuy]

What do you want to do in it? What's your location like, in town or further out? 

 

Personally I would go at least 14' tall. If you want to work on cars, sounds like you may want to put in a lift one day. Figure you're 6' tall, an average car is 4-5' tall so I would think you want 12' minimum for a lift. Trucks and SUVs will be even taller. If you ever sell the property the next buyer may have a semi tractor or RV that they'd like to park out of the weather, or you might just decide to put up pallet racking for more storage. What are you insulating for, to cool it in the summer or heat it in the winter? 

 

My shop was 30x40, and once you get work benches, storage and shop equipment (presses, tool boxes, welders, etc) in there it got small fast and actually took some rearranging to get a vehicle in. I was focused more on metalwork and fab than automotive though, so I had a few extra tables and things. 

[Ugly]

There are decent insulated windows available for cheap but it all depends on location and needs.

I've used 4" thick 4'x8' insulation on a roof, don't know if the cost would beat rolled fiberglass or not but it was a flat roof with a rubber roll roofing material. 2" could probably used for the walls.

More is better for size, fer sure. It'll fill up quickly.
Plus you've got to consider roof type and insulating that as well.
What sort of exterior are you thinking of using?

[Mwhiskey]

Did you allow an overhang on your roof? 18''-2' is what i would recommend with slotted or bb'd soffit.  If i was gonna have a lift in there I agree 56Fordguy on having a minimum of 12' walls.  Lay 4' worth of block off your pad and use 8' boards is what i would do.  Use 2 salt treated sil plates( 2"x8's") bolted onto the block.  You'll have bolts concreted into the block, drill holes in your sil plate and use a washer and nut to connect the sil to the block.  I'd do it every 4' or so- I really don't know what the code is or even if there is one.  I'd use 2 2"x4's non treated for my top plate.   I maybe wrong, but i believe the wrap don't really insulate it just keeps out the wind and moisture.   I've never really messed with metal framing much, so personally I would forget about the whole metal truss thing and just stick build it.  At least 4''of concrete sounds about right, and no matter what it will crack (never met a concrete guy that guaranteed it not to crack).  Is your building spot pretty firm?  You gonna have 2' footers under that pad?  Bigger doors the better IMO.  I'd be happy with a 12' carport...If all my toys would fit under it.  I'd slat the roof on  2' centers  with .5"x 2"-3" boards from a sawmill, and use metal roofing.  I'd use roll insulation for my walls and spray in the ceiling.  

[runco]

Here is a general rule:

 

Figure up how many square feet you think you need.  Now multiply by 2.  I have heard too many war stories of how many men either built a garage or shop too small. 

 

One of my buddies built a shop about 20 years ago, and used telephone poles as the upright poles, and the rest in steel.  He had the the concrete floor poured after the building was erected.  I believe he went large, maybe a 40x80.  He did all of the work himself, except when he needed extra hands.  He did have access to a scissor lift, which made all of the difference, and I recall he burnt up several chorded drills for all of the screws for the metal roof.   He was single at the time, and built a small efficiency apartment inside in the corner which was very modern and very cool.    He had insulation, but I don't remember what he had.

 

Had another buddy build one, but he added a layer of security, he used block for the first 5 or 6 feet high.  His other building which he did gunsmithing on the side, kept getting broken into.  Not through the door, but the idiots were removing the side panels to gain entrance.

Edited January 24, 2016 by runco

[No_0ne]

When I built my shop, we laid a single run of concrete bricks around the perimeter of the fresh slab and then built a standard 8" 2x4 studded wall on top of that.  I used wood trusses for the ceiling and roof, walls and ceiling fully insulated, and sealed with painted OSB.  This combination has made a decent workshop, but the next time I build one it will be significantly taller as the @ 8'4" ceiling height limits what you can do inside.  Like others, I would also build bigger (the current one is 26x36).  I learned long ago to make extra wire pulls thru the "attic" before sealing, this allows for future circuit expansion.  I would also suggest at least plumbing in a drain and a water line, you don't have to hook then up, just have them run through the slab/footing prior to pouring, this enables you to add water at a later date if your plans change.  You might also think about running phone and/or ethernet lines in with your electric supply (assuming that like me, you live in an area where wireless service is not available), also for future expansion/different needs at later dates.

[tacops]

I'll jump in here...I built a 28x40 with 12/12 pitch attic box trusses which gave me a 16x40 room upstairs with 8ft ceiling and 4ft knee walls.  This is great storage and could be turned into an apartment if needed.  These trusses are self-supporting for the span so I don't have any support poles in the way.  I used a 4inch fiber mesh concrete  with wire mesh for the floor and and have no cracks after 12 years.  I had a block foundation that rose 24 inches above the floor and then 8 ft. stud wall construction giving me a 10 ft. ceiling.  I used 3 standard doors on the front and one 12 ft door on the rear for large items.  This also allowed me to "drive-thru" with my boat as opposed to backing in.  The interior walls are finished off with 4x8 sheets dry erase board (White Board) that does not collect dust and is an easy way to write down ideas and measurements.  This also reflects light very well and when it comes time to clean I use a swiffer to wipe down the walls.  Oh yeah, I had the floor poured with a 4 inch drop from back to front.  You don't notice the gradual drop and with the drop and the two feet of concrete foundation at the base of the walls, I can wash a car inside and the water flows out under the garage doors on the front.

[gomer pyle]

Wow, a lot of good ideas and things to think about. That is a great idea about the I-beam. I would like to find rails for two sides and the I-beam to span it, then I could use it anywhere in the shop, but I'm not sure how expensive that would be. I guess I could always pour the corners thick and add it later.This will be a multipurpose shop, metal work(I built a tube chassis buggy a few years ago), personal mechanic use, etc.. Heck, I split my tractor in my garage this past spring.

 

I'm insulating it for heat in the winter. I plan to use tin on roof and sides.

 

I live out in the country on a 6 acre lot.  My reasoning behind using the metal trusses is; I don't have to build it as tall due to there open design.

 

I didn't think about spray or board insulation. How good are they compared to roll?

 

I can't decide if I want a loft over part of it for storage or not. I think it would help alot with clutter on the floor but it might also tempt my wife to store her crap out there. LOL

[Tedro2022]

I did think about windows but kinda worried about break-ins, but the natural light and view might be worth it.

Depending on what kind of roof you had in mind, you could do a metal roof and mix in some of the plastic pieces that keep it pretty lit during the day.
My father did that in his pole barn back in Arkansas and its held up really well, and lights the barn up really well during the day with the doors closed (think winter).


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[Mark A]

I just KNEW a 30x40 would be more than I would ever need. After all, how much room can a tractor and a few implements take??? When I saw the pad I went: Huh... There was this sinking feeling in my stomach. Couldn't do anything about it as that was all the money I had at the time.

 

Biggest mistake I made was with the main rollup door. I started with an 8' wide and at the last minute I switched to a 10'. Once I get a few more infrastructure things done this summer the 10' is coming out and I am putting in at least a 14' wide door. Way to easy to hit the sides with the implements. Forgetting just how faaaaaar the front bucket sticks out has gotten me a couple of times as I started my swing a tad bit too soon...

 

On the advice of my builder we put 4 of the clear panels on the roof. Best decision ever. I could actually use 2 more but the 4 do a good job when it is fully sunny.

 

I retrospect I should have saved a little longer and built a 60x40... To get around that I am going to build a 20x30 shop that will be for woodworking and car projects etc and use the bigger building for storing the tractor and implements and maybe one day, if I'm really lucky, a skid steer...

 

On the new building I'm going to make one whole long side a series of roll up doors. I recently attended a couple homesteading workshops that had set ups like this. It makes it really easy to host a larger group

 

Mark

[No_0ne]

I just KNEW a 30x40 would be more than I would ever need. After all, how much room can a tractor and a few implements take??? When I saw the pad I went: Huh... There was this sinking feeling in my stomach. Couldn't do anything about it as that was all the money I had at the time.

 

Biggest mistake I made was with the main rollup door. I started with an 8' wide and at the last minute I switched to a 10'. Once I get a few more infrastructure things done this summer the 10' is coming out and I am putting in at least a 14' wide door. Way to easy to hit the sides with the implements. Forgetting just how faaaaaar the front bucket sticks out has gotten me a couple of times as I started my swing a tad bit too soon...

 

On the advice of my builder we put 4 of the clear panels on the roof. Best decision ever. I could actually use 2 more but the 4 do a good job when it is fully sunny.

 

I retrospect I should have saved a little longer and built a 60x40... To get around that I am going to build a 20x30 shop that will be for woodworking and car projects etc and use the bigger building for storing the tractor and implements and maybe one day, if I'm really lucky, a skid steer...

 

On the new building I'm going to make one whole long side a series of roll up doors. I recently attended a couple homesteading workshops that had set ups like this. It makes it really easy to host a larger group

 

Mark

 

Now just double that 20x30 to about 40x60 and you will be a lot happier next year ...

[Mwhiskey]

I didn't think about spray or board insulation. How good are they compared to roll?

 

The spray foam is the bee's knees, but is more expensive.  It maybe overkill for a garage, but the more climate controlled it is the better if you ask me.  My dad keeps a 22 rifle in our uninsulated garage at the sawmill and we constantly battle rust.  They make a spray insulation that is not foam.  It's just recycled carpet I think.  I'd use this in my attic.  It's just so much easier.  You'll have to rent a blower machine.  Have someone in the attic spraying and another feeding the machine on the ground.  Lowes or Home Depot have the blowers.  I don't mind working with the roll insulation on the walls.  They make faced and unfaced.  Here is a link for some info on faced and unfaced insulation.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/insulation-radiant-vapor-barriers/475362-faced-unfaced-insulation-vapor-barrier.html#b

[Mwhiskey]

Now just double that 20x30 to about 40x60 and you will be a lot happier next year ...

 

I have a 40x60 garage/man cave and I'm very happy with it

[kckndrgn]

WOW, lots of great ideas here. I am starting on plans to build a detached garage/workshop (wood working)/man cave/storage/etc.  It will be a year or 2 before I can start, ideally I would like to build it myself but time, resources and energy may mean contracting most if not all of it out.

 

If I may ask, what is the average cost for a building that is 30x60.  I'm located in Fayette county, not in any city limits.

[No_0ne]

WOW, lots of great ideas here. I am starting on plans to build a detached garage/workshop (wood working)/man cave/storage/etc.  It will be a year or 2 before I can start, ideally I would like to build it myself but time, resources and energy may mean contracting most if not all of it out.

 

If I may ask, what is the average cost for a building that is 30x60.  I'm located in Fayette county, not in any city limits.

 

Let me put it this way, what's it cost to buy a new car?  There are so many variables to shop/garage/shed construction that square footage makes virtually no difference without establishing some kind of initial parameters ....

[gomer pyle]

What about the concrete coloring? Paint or epoxy? Is there another option? I want it white to reflect light and durable enough to withstand a 5yr old with a hammer. Lol

[MudBugjr]

You want epoxy or a polyaspartic on that floor don't paint for sure.

[peejman]

Draw this thing out, measure stuff, and get the interior all laid out and thought through before you dig a footer.  That'll take a while, but it'll be worth it.

 

 

If you're planning on a lift, welder, big air compressor, etc...  have a stand alone 200 amp, 240V 3 phase service.

 

Wifi or ethernet

 

Hot water, toilet, big utility sink, floor drains.

 

Beam for hoist.

 

Skylights.  Exhaust fan.  LOTS of interior lights (think paint booth).  Drive-thru doors as big as you can afford (think RV).  Air lines and power lines run all the way around. 

 

Look into the professionally applied commercial grade epoxy floor coatings.  The hardware store stuff isn't durable enough. 

 

Spray foam insulation is much more efficient but pricey.

[quietguy]

I would stay away from concrete paints, unless they have improved greatly in the last few years.  

 

I used an epoxy on my shop, and my only complaint is that is getting pretty worn where I move my larger machinery around.  I used a light grey color, with white flecks.  It really helps disperse the lighting.  

 

I wish I had done like tacops suggested and used dry erase panels on my walls.  I used it in my cabinet doors and drawer fronts, and it great.  As mentioned earlier, easy to clean and very handy for labeling and notes.  I made door pulls that double as marker holders, so I always have one close by.  

[kieefer]

I used Kinloch Atomic sealants on my new concrete floor. Expensive but it's tough and oils wipe right up.

 

http://www.southernstainandseal.com/garage-floor-epoxy.php

 

If you're worried about windows that could be broken into but want the light, I used two narrow windows that normally fit between a front door, mounted them up high.

 

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[Grand Torino]

Everyone has it covered with excellent ideas. Let me reiterate others by saying build it as big as you can afford because they never end up big enough.

[gjohnsoniv]

Build it bigger than you think you need. At work an 80'x80' isn't nearly as big as you would imagine when heavy equipment rolls in. Or vehicles for that matter.

[gomer pyle]

What kinda doors? Drum or traditional garage?