Considering some guns for CCW

[Guest Fenris]

I'm starting to planand save for a CCW gun after I get my permit. I also want to get one for my wife when she gets her permit, but that's down the road. I'm thinking a wheel gun for her until she gets more comfortable with firearms. A smaller .38 or something like that.

As far as I am concerned, well, I'm 5'5" and about 150 pounds. Not a lot of room to conceal without printing. I also don't have a lot of money and don't do credit.

I'm looking at either the Bersa Thunder .380 or the CZ-52 (C&R is figured into the expense).

I know the debate about the .380 being the cutoff for self-defense round and whether or not it is above or below the line. Personally, I think it depends on the load.

Are there other options in the <$200 that are reliable guns? I've also looked into the Makarov rounds as well, but don't know.

Opinions welcome

[Guest sling]

Well, since your not afraid to use a old gun for CCW (thats good btw) i'd recommend the TT-33 Tokarev.

They're thin, have decent accuracy, and a helluva lot of stopping power. You can sometimes find one for the ballpark price your wanting. Do they make hollow points commercially for it? No. But the Tok is one heck of a penetrator.

Edited December 5, 2008 by sling

[Guest RISC777]

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. Other than that, what works for you as far as investment and fit / comfort / recoil / etc. Some ranges will rent firearms and you can try some out that way, otherwise people you're with at a range usually are happy to let you try out what they have.

The fit of the weapon to your hand, how and where it will be concealed, how quickly you can get a firing grip on it and it out, and a caliber that you are comfortable with the recoil.

[Guest tcampbell]

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. Other than that, what works for you as far as investment and fit / comfort / recoil / etc. Some ranges will rent firearms and you can try some out that way, otherwise people you're with at a range usually are happy to let you try out what they have.

The fit of the weapon to your hand, how and where it will be concealed, how quickly you can get a firing grip on it and it out, and a caliber that you are comfortable with the recoil.

+2.5768987

on shot placement and everything else that RISC777 stated... :-)

[MudBugjr]

My father just picked up a Bersa .380 and loves it. Slim and fits the hand pretty well. Pretty good for the money. Put some hollow points and go.

[TGO David]

I'd look for a used Smith & Wesson J-Frame revolver. You can find them for around $300 if you aren't a stickler on it looking like new.

The .38spl is about the smallest cartridge I would consider carrying for self defense. I own a Bersa 380 and only keep it around for nostalgia's sake. I have had no problems with it, per se, but I just don't think I'd want to trust my life to it either.

[Guest Fenris]

Seems like I saw some tables (may even be linked from here) about actual police reports and one shot stops on bad guys. The right load int he .380 had over a 70% one-shot stop rating and was above the .38 and depending on the load, above or close to a 9 mm if I remember my figures correctly.

I am biased. Had a Walther PPK/S once and loved that gun. Wish I still had it.

[Guest Astra900]

Well, since your not afraid to use a old gun for CCW (thats good btw) i'd recommend the TT-33 Tokarev.

They're thin, have decent accuracy, and a helluva lot of stopping power. You can sometimes find one for the ballpark price your wanting. Do they make hollow points commercially for it? No. But the Tok is one heck of a penetrator.

THe Reloaders Bench has Hornady Factory ammo w/ an 86g soft point. I think it would work quite well on the ole' vital organs:death:

[Guest Fenris]

I love the Reloader's Bench.

[TGO David]

One shot stops are a complete myth. Sometimes it happens, but you should never buy a handgun on the premise that whatever cartridge it is chambered in will provide instantaneous incapacitation. No handgun is capable of that. Immediate incapacitation depends entirely on you striking the central nervous system and/or the target losing the will to fight. If you hit soft tissue instead of the CNS, you're going to have to wait for them to bleed out or give up. Both of those things will operate on an arbitrary time schedule.

What you want is a handgun that is (a.) comfortable enough and small enough that you will carry it, and (b.) brings enough muzzle energy to the table that it will penetrate clothing, meat and bone to get into the core of the target and do some damage.

The .380ACP is at the absolute low end of the scale in my opinion. I know some people go smaller, but I see no point in it considering the compactness of modern firearms designs.

The .38spl has significantly more muzzle energy than the .380ACP. Just because the bullet diameter is roughly the same, do not confuse the two cartridges. Simply setting two of the cartridges side by side shows that the .38spl carries a much larger powder charge.

I'd seriously look at a small revolver if your funds are limited and you feel that a larger handgun would be difficult to conceal given your frame and stature. Alternatively, you might be able to find a used Glock model 19 (9mm) for about the same price, but I'd expect it to be pretty worn and tattered at that price point.

[Guest Astra900]

One shot stops are a complete myth. Sometimes it happens, but you should never buy a handgun on the premise that whatever cartridge it is chambered in will provide instantaneous incapacitation. No handgun is capable of that. Immediate incapacitation depends entirely on you striking the central nervous system and/or the target losing the will to fight. If you hit soft tissue instead of the CNS, you're going to have to wait for them to bleed out or give up. Both of those things will operate on an arbitrary time schedule.

What you want is a handgun that is (a.) comfortable enough and small enough that you will carry it, and (b.) brings enough muzzle energy to the table that it will penetrate clothing, meat and bone to get into the core of the target and do some damage.

The .380ACP is at the absolute low end of the scale in my opinion. I know some people go smaller, but I see no point in it considering the compactness of modern firearms designs.

The .38spl has significantly more muzzle energy than the .380ACP. Just because the bullet diameter is roughly the same, do not confuse the two cartridges. Simply setting two of the cartridges side by side shows that the .38spl carries a much larger powder charge.

I'd seriously look at a small revolver if your funds are limited and you feel that a larger handgun would be difficult to conceal given your frame and stature. Alternatively, you might be able to find a used Glock model 19 (9mm) for about the same price, but I'd expect it to be pretty worn and tattered at that price point.

+1 to that, you can get a small .38 revolver that will serve you well for very low $$$. As far as 1 shot stops, Tungsten is right again, don't think twice, shoot twice!

[Guest Fenris]

You are absolutely right on the 1-shot stops. What I neglected to say in my earlier post that should I ever have to use my weapon (God forbid) I will not just be shooting once.

My grandfather once had to kill a man who was trying to rape his mother. He had a .25. the next day he went out and bought a .38 because as he said "nobody should have to shoot a man 5 times to kill him."

I agree that the .380 is the minimum. I will be looking at some of the other suggestions and I am not opposed to a revolver either. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was shopping for a one-shot solution. I was simply saying that the .380 with the right load can statistically compete with some of the lower end "big boys".

[Guest sling]

For the record... i was not advocating the myth of one shot stops... just to make that clear. Anyone who knows me knows i carried a 9mm for a long time and am a firm believer in shot placement. Just thought i'd throw that out there.

I try to avoid the reloaders bench when i can... the only think they dont jack the price up on is powder and primer.

One of the most expensive places to buy a gun other than Franklin gun shop.

Not to mention they're always wanting to measure gun 'd***" size.

Edited December 5, 2008 by sling

[Guest Astra900]

The ONE shot stop weapon.

A little difficult to conceal :)

[TGO David]

The ONE shot stop weapon.

A little difficult to conceal :)

I carry one of those. People often ask me if I'm just happy to see them.

[Guest db99wj]

Be sure not to chose for your wife, let your wife shoot different types and chose for herself. Too many men stick a revolver into their wifes hands and say have at it. You and your wife need to be comfortable with carrying the weapon, comfortable shooting the weapon or the worse thing is going to happen, it becomes a paperweight locked up somewhere in your house.

With that said, she might pick up a S&W and love it, but she might not after she shoots it. Same with you.

Remember: What's worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Gun Control is the ability to put two rounds into the same hole.

[Guest coldblackwind]

Hey, a thread I can relate to! I'm about 5'5-5'6" depending who measures, and i'm about 150-155 lbs. Personally, I carry a glock 30, center of the back, or a .38 snubnose kind of front like. The .38 is quite comfortable, the glock, not so much (but it is 10 rounds of .45 ). My reccomendation, is above all, you want something short, especially if you plan to carry iwb. Thats the main problem I have, is length of the gun, much more than overall size.

[strickj]

Since everyone is recommending S&W 38's then I will throw out Taurus revolvers. I have a Taurus 851 and couldn't be happier with it! The price should be right up your alley on these. I think Buds has them for a little over 200 which is about 100 bucks cheaper then its S&W counterpart.

On size,well thats up to personal preference.I carried a KelTec p32 there for a while and was happy with it.Its not that much smaller then the 380 but has better penetration which is the biggest problem with the 380.You would want to load both the 32,and 380 with FMJ for over penetration is not a concern with those.

Actually(I thought this was funny myself) Towerclimber shot my p32 one day,and after just one mag,he decided he must have one so he went inside and bought the last one that Carters had.

I also believe he said that was the first and only plastic gun he would ever buy

[Guest grimel]

Seems like I saw some tables (may even be linked from here) about actual police reports and one shot stops on bad guys. The right load int he .380 had over a 70% one-shot stop rating and was above the .38 and depending on the load, above or close to a 9 mm if I remember my figures correctly.

I am biased. Had a Walther PPK/S once and loved that gun. Wish I still had it.

Those tables are crap. The people doing the "research" haven't a clue about statistics and scientific principles. What they didn't tell you in their beloved tables (but, they did in their first book) is they toss over half (think about that for a second) of all the shootings because they have over 1 hit involved. Also, look at what they consider a One Shot Stop (hint, if some of the BG's had been more inclined to fight the numbers would be worse).

Stick with ammo that meets the FBI criteria.

Look for a 3" 38/357 for both of you. One type of ammo. One type of action. If you practice, 50yds is doable for the small guns. They hide easy and just flat work.

[Guest grimel]

I agree that the .380 is the minimum. I will be looking at some of the other suggestions and I am not opposed to a revolver either. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was shopping for a one-shot solution. I was simply saying that the .380 with the right load can statistically compete with some of the lower end "big boys".

Start looking at 380 rounds that meet the FBI criteria. Then look at 38spl rounds that meet the FBI criteria. Notice the number and price difference?

[Guest nraforlife]

I'd look for a used Smith & Wesson J-Frame revolver. You can find them for around $300 if you aren't a stickler on it looking like new.

The .38spl is about the smallest cartridge I would consider carrying for self defense. I own a Bersa 380 and only keep it around for nostalgia's sake. I have had no problems with it, per se, but I just don't think I'd want to trust my life to it either.

+1

[Guest nraforlife]

Be sure not to chose for your wife, let your wife shoot different types and chose for herself. Too many men stick a revolver into their wifes hands and say have at it. You and your wife need to be comfortable with carrying the weapon, comfortable shooting the weapon or the worse thing is going to happen, it becomes a paperweight locked up somewhere in your house.

With that said, she might pick up a S&W and love it, but she might not after she shoots it. Same with you.

Remember: What's worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Gun Control is the ability to put two rounds into the same hole.

My wife is comfortable with a 1911, she is a darn fine shot with it. But she carries a Taurus 38 with her all the time

[Guest JLowe]

Find a 38 snub that will handle +P rounds. I has far more power than a 380. Its easy to use and when your wife gets her HCP you can give it to her and get you something new . What ever you choose, make sure that your comfortable with carrying it all day. Also, practice, practice, practice with it, that means drawing from concealment, target practice, and practice reloading (especially if you decide on a wheelgun). The most important thing you will learn is shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. It does not matter what kind of round you got, if you put them in the right spot, they will work as advertised. Good luck.

[Guest db99wj]

My wife is comfortable with a 1911, she is a darn fine shot with it. But she carries a Taurus 38 with her all the time

You might be missing my point, I might be misunderstanding your point, but I have seen first hand where a husband sticks a gun into his wife's hands and says this is what you need and we are going to get it, then she shoots one out of the rental case and hates it. My point is let the wife decide.

[Guest DylisTN]

Bought mine trinity firearms. About $165. The gun was unfired. Very nice. 9X18. Light due to alumium frame. Lots of hollow point ammo availible and pretty cheep milsurp ammo availible. I carry in my front pants pockett in a desantis nemasis. This is my favorite carry gun. Also have some CZ 52s. very powerful. But a little to big for my pockett.

Check out Read's research and Ammo. They have good self defence rounds in both Makarov and Tokarev.