Making A Murderer

[Mwhiskey]

     Has anyone seen this on Netflix?  Its a rollercoaster ride, and still leaves me scratching my head. What do y'all think of ole Steven Avery?

[CommsNBombs]

I watched the whole thing, very well done. Shame his petition didnt get much traction (and now his ex fiance is running her mouth about him).

That is what happens when some "Good 'Ol Boy" LEOs and Justice Dept are crooked - kinda hard to have any justice when every damn person from the deputies all the way up to the DA are crooked.

Avery got rail roaded - he shouldve taken the money and popped smoke.

What a shame.

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[Peace]

Call me nutty, but I just never can get excited about watching this type of dramatization of real life events - while the folks are still around.   It's probably great, but I get an awful feeling in my gut just thinking about watching it!  

[Lumber_Jack]

I believe Steven Avery killed Teresa Halbach.  Now, I don't think it happened anywhere near the way the DA presented the case.  I think Avery killed her somewhere else on the 40 acre property and transported the body to the burn pile.  The lack of blood in the house or garage doesn't mean he didn't kill her.  

 

I also believe the Manitowoc county sheriffs office found Halbachs car prior to the search while on the property without a warrant.  They then directed the family members to ask permission to enter the property and within 10 mins had found her car.  I also believe they took the car key and planted it in the trailer to bolster their case against Avery.  Remember Avery has an IQ of less than 80.  Things that seem normal or common sense don't apply here.  He is literally stupid.  

 

I think Brenden Dassy was a victim of not only Steve Avery coercing him to do things he might not normally do, but also of the DA and his own appointed lawyers.  His first appointed Defense lawyer should be disbarred.  His complete lack of concern for the well being of Brenden never crossed his mind.  His second attorney wasn't much better.  They should have moved to exclude the testimony taken by his first lawyer which was freely handed to the DA and used against him in trail.  At most I think Brenden should be in a mental health institute.  

 

Manitowoc County might be the single dumbest county in the entire country.  There is no way all of these low intelligence individuals pulled of the biggest frame job in history.  They aren't smart enough, this most definitely includes the Sheriffs office and county DA's.  

[Lumber_Jack]

There is one framing scenario that has been presented that I can actually believe and I'll quote it below. 

 

 

 

“The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey’s bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

[LagerHead]

I wish we could say this is an isolated incident, but unfortunately we know from the literally hundreds of people who have been released after being wrongfully convicted that the legal system (not justice system, as the state likes to portray it) is heavily stacked against you. Once you are in the cops' crosshairs you might as well be a Viet Cong in the crosshairs of Carlos Hathcock, because sure as the sun will rise tomorrow they're gonna get you. Anyone who knows this and talks to the police gets no sympathy from me. It is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever in your best interest to talk to the police, ever. Did I mention ever?

 

If you have never seen this video, you owe it to yourself to watch it in its entirety. Yes, I know it's an hour out of your life, but this is one of the most important messages you might ever see. In it a law professor gives you ten reasons you should never talk to the police, complete with several real world examples that correspond. To be fair, he allows a police officer respond to his ten reasons and say where he was unfair or incorrect. Very educational.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Mwhiskey]

Remember Avery has an IQ of less than 80.  Things that seem normal or common sense don't apply here.  He is literally stupid. 

 

     The whole thing was just too fishy for me to wrap my head around to be completely honest...I'm not a very smart man lol.  But I do wonder why a guy, that just spent 18 years for a crime that he was proven innocent for, would get out and even want to brake the speed limit?  Like you said above, he isn't the smartest apple on the tree, but he does seem fairly normal and harmless. And besides, who like prison? Avery seemed like he had everything going for him when he got out.  I believe the authorities had it out for him from the start.  You'd think with all this technology we have these days, that we'd have a sure fire method of proving if a man was telling the truth are not.  Maybe in the next 18 years will find out.

[Lumber_Jack]

     The whole thing was just too fishy for me to wrap my head around to be completely honest...I'm not a very smart man lol.  But I do wonder why a guy, that just spent 18 years for a crime that he was proven innocent for, would get out and even want to brake the speed limit?  Like you said above, he isn't the smartest apple on the tree, but he does seem fairly normal and harmless. And besides, who like prison? Avery seemed like he had everything going for him when he got out.  I believe the authorities had it out for him from the start.  You'd think with all this technology we have these days, that we'd have a sure fire method of proving if a man was telling the truth are not.  Maybe in the next 18 years will find out.

 

He had a very violent past that the documentary didn't expound upon.  He threatened to murder his ex-wife from his prison cell on his first stint.  He was abusive to the girlfriend that dumped him halfway through the trial, which she has become vocal about.  I don't feel sorry for Steven Avery

[Mwhiskey]

Once you are in the cops' crosshairs you might as well be a Viet Cong in the crosshairs of Carlos Hathcock, because sure as the sun will rise tomorrow they're gonna get you.It is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever in your best interest to talk to the police, ever. Did I mention ever?

I love that analogy!  Hathcock should run for president!  I agree 110% about not talking to police.  Nothing personal to any officer of the law, I'm very grateful and thankful for their services, and know they have a hard job.  I know 2 highway patrolman and a handful of Washington and Unicoi county deputies, all are great men.  It's reassuring for me to know that they are good cops out there too.

[LagerHead]

I love that analogy! Hathcock should run for president! I agree 110% about not talking to police. Nothing personal to any officer of the law, I'm very grateful and thankful for their services, and know they have a hard job. I know 2 highway patrolman and a handful of Washington and Unicoi county deputies, all are great men. It's reassuring for me to know that they are good cops out there too.

Yea, I probably came across wrong. My concern is more for my rights than anything against any policeman. Regardless, I will never talk to the police, even the few that I know personally. I was on the same team as a current cop. If he ever came to my door he'd get nothing.

[Mwhiskey]

He had a very violent past that the documentary didn't expound upon.  He threatened to murder his ex-wife from his prison cell on his first stint.  He was abusive to the girlfriend that dumped him halfway through the trial, which she has become vocal about.  I don't feel sorry for Steven Avery

 

Ironic how the media we watch and see can reflect our opinions.  I hear ya though, dude did throw the family cat in a fire when he was young!  Where did you get your other info? I guess the jury heard about all this?

Edited January 21, 2016 by Mwhiskey

[npgunner]

If this sort of stuff interests you; apparently there is a Podcast called "Serial" that does this similar this thing with a case. I've not listened to it yet, but it came up in discussion re: making a murderer.

[Mwhiskey]

If this sort of stuff interests you; apparently there is a Podcast called "Serial" that does this similar this thing with a case. I've not listened to it yet, but it came up in discussion re: making a murderer.

 

Maybe this is where Lumber_Jack got his info?  A friend of mine asked me to watch it, and with this snow and cabin fever starting I'd thought I'd see what it was all about.  Thanks, but I could not bare the thought of listening to a podcast about it lol. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Mwhiskey

[tennesseetiger]

I watched this show in less than 48hours...once I started watching it I couldn't stop. 

[Lumber_Jack]

Maybe this is where Lumber_Jack got his info? A friend of mine asked me to watch it, and with this snow and cabin fever starting I'd thought I'd see what it was all about. Thanks, but I could not bare the thought of listening to a podcast about it lol.

When this documentary first came out, then web was flooded with articles. I'll post an article review from a local lawyer later.


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[Mwhiskey]

I watched this show in less than 48hours...once I started watching it I couldn't stop. 

 

Me too! 

[Lumber_Jack]

Here is a link to a really good article that pretty much sums up the way I felt after watching the series in complete.  Clay Travis is a sports writer who was at one time a practicing lawyer so I like his opinions on the matter.  

 

 

On Making a Murderer

[felinesNfreedom]

Here is a link to a really good article that pretty much sums up the way I felt after watching the series in complete.  Clay Travis is a sports writer who was at one time a practicing lawyer so I like his opinions on the matter.  

 

 

On Making a Murderer

 

 

 

You forgot Elitist gay Muslim conservative liberal racist sexist homophobe! 

[Lumber_Jack]

You forgot Elitist gay Muslim conservative liberal racist sexist homophobe!

I thought that was a given


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[DaveTN]

I tried to binge watch it, but I kept dozing off. I saw a lot of it. It certainly is a weird case. I don’t know if he did it or not, but I think there should be a new trial.

You don’t have an outside agency handle an investigation and then let people from the first agency work the case and have full access to the crime scene. There was no hand off of the case to the other county.

You can’t believe anything Brendan said. ..period. He did not have the mental capacity to be involved in the trial.

The car keys. They just appeared on the floor after the area had already been searched? Give me a break.

Cops committed crimes that would send them to prison? Why? Just to convict him? That’s possible, but it would require multiple Deputies to be involved.

The problem with getting a new trial is that they would need new evidence. The car, the keys, the bad cops, Brendan’s false confession, those things all played out in front of the jury. I don’t see where they have anything new.

Maybe I need to try to watch it all the way through again and stay awake this time.

[jwinter]

If this sort of stuff interests you; apparently there is a Podcast called "Serial" that does this similar this thing with a case. I've not listened to it yet, but it came up in discussion re: making a murderer.

I have started listening to this also it is pretty good background listening when I am at work. I was skimming these posts to see if anyone has mentioned serial since it is along the same lines from what I understand. I didn't want to read the previous posts yet since I haven't watched making a murderer yet and didn't want any spoilers or preconceived outcomes. We plan on starting the this weekend because everyone at work keeps saying how good it is.

[Mwhiskey]

I have started listening to this also it is pretty good background listening when I am at work. I was skimming these posts to see if anyone has mentioned serial since it is along the same lines from what I understand. I didn't want to read the previous posts yet since I haven't watched making a murderer yet and didn't want any spoilers or preconceived outcomes. We plan on starting the this weekend because everyone at work keeps saying how good it is.

 

Yeah, npgunner said something about it. I'm saving it for a rainy day. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mwhiskey

[Lumber_Jack]

Another good article about facts omitted from the documentary

http://www.dailywire.com/news/2680/heres-confession-making-murderer-filmmakers-dont-aaron-bandler?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=011216-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro#

[dangerdawg]

I have started listening to this also it is pretty good background listening when I am at work. I was skimming these posts to see if anyone has mentioned serial since it is along the same lines from what I understand. I didn't want to read the previous posts yet since I haven't watched making a murderer yet and didn't want any spoilers or preconceived outcomes. We plan on starting the this weekend because everyone at work keeps saying how good it is.

 

 

 

I found Serial much more interesting overall, or at least Adnan's case, especially with the follow up podcasts that became equally as popular "Undisclosed" and "Truth and Justice with Bob Ruff" that uncovered further details about the case and Brady violations that helped Adnan's case get reopened recently.

Edited January 24, 2016 by dangerdawg

[dangerdawg]

Here is a link to a really good article that pretty much sums up the way I felt after watching the series in complete.  Clay Travis is a sports writer who was at one time a practicing lawyer so I like his opinions on the matter.  

 

 

On Making a Murderer

 

 

Yes, I read that, along with these articles -

 

9 Reasons Avery Is Guilty -

 

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/

 

http://www.people.com/article/steven-avery-prosecutor-ken-kratz-says-netflix-series-forgot-key-evidence

 

It's hard for me to get past Avery's apparent obsession or targeting of Halbach, apparently having answered the door in a towel, Halbach telling supervisors she was scared of him, and he specifically requesting "that girl that was here last time" and hiding his caller ID to trick her into coming back out.