Const. Carry Bill brought up today

[tnhawk]

I'd rather they fight to get a bill passed for proper classes and permits for first amendment rights too... I don't like a lot of what people have to say, and think some don't know much about their religions and all kinds of things that should be proven before they are allowed their rights.  It doesn't matter if its a right, we should limit it just to be on the safe side.

 

Add an exam and  state fee and the government will jump on it.

[DaveTN]

the best thing that could happen for gun rights this year would be getting rid of the criminal penalty behind the no gun sign. forget this other stuff that aint likely to happen.

How many people in this state have been charged with that?

The best thing that could happen would be constitutional carry. Other states have it I see no reason it couldn’t happen here.

[gregintenn]

How many people in this state have been charged with that?

The best thing that could happen would be constitutional carry. Other states have it I see no reason it couldn’t happen here.

Revenue loss will prevent it.

[Omega]

Revenue loss will prevent it.

No, politics will prevent it.  Haslam uses the finance committee to kill bills he doesn't want on his desk.  But if you look at some of the bills that get killed vs the ones that pass, there is a big disparity between them and some of the passed bills are no more than feel good bills to garner inner city votes.

[jughead]

How many people in this state have been charged with that?

The best thing that could happen would be constitutional carry. Other states have it I see no reason it couldn’t happen here.

 

How many people in this state have been charged with that?

The best thing that could happen would be constitutional carry. Other states have it I see no reason it couldn’t happen here.

do you want to be the test case?

[300winmag]

That's right.  The no gun sign law is something that can potentially cause problems.  What good is Constitutional carry when you can't legally carry anywhere because of all the no gun signs that are put up because of the media scare over it?  I saw it happen in Mississippi when open carry was basically legalized.  If you didn't have an enhanced license you were out of luck at a lot of properties.  Bad thing is here, we don't have any enhanced license so you would be illegally carrying.

 

It's easy for people to say "Well just don't go there", but when a good chunk of the downtown area of a major city has no gun signs on both the private and public property, it becomes quite a hassle to try to be legal when you are running back and forth to your car to leave your gun.  Sometimes you can't avoid going to say a local government building or a hospital.  It's not like people can take their big stand and boycott those type of places.

 

Constitutional carry will get nowhere in this legislature.  The people that put the bill out there will get their pat on the back by the NRA and we'll have another year of nothing of substance that actually passes.

[Worriedman]

Being somewhat involved with this one, the Civil Justice Committee has made a "request" to add in at least a training component.

It has been suggested that any certified instructor can teach the class (NRA, State, Firearms Manufacturer Armorer etc.) and the newly certified would get a card signed under penalty of perjury, (like the current "wand" certificates required by the State).  Current permit system would remain for those (like me)that want to keep the Full Monty for reciprocity purposes, and to keep at least some money coming into DOS to keep their current employees on staff, that would help with the fiscal note.

Do I think even this has a chance to pass, not much, the sponsors COULD invoke Rule 53 and bring it to the floor for an up or down vote, but I do not know yet if they will.  Will be decided this week.  If not, we run the original as is and count the votes in committee, at least we get to assign fault where it actually lies.

Keep in mind, a lot of these rascals (legislators) carry in LP, they know how important it is to be armed, just will not buck the Chamber to let you and me do it. 

[Radlink54]

So as usual no progress on removing the onerous penalties in place in TN for carry past the multitude of inconsistent, nebulous, and often barely visible posting signs allowed in TN.

 

We need something like this in Missouri:

 

Locations Where Not Authorized – Not a criminal act under Missouri law  (See 571.107 RSMo)

A ccw permit does not authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into the 17 locations summarized below. (See statute for full details on each.) Doing so is not a criminal act under Missouri law, but may subject the permit holder to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If the individual refuses to leave after being asked and the police are called, he or she may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed $100; a second offense within 6 months is a $200 fine and suspension of the ccw permit for one year; a third offense within 12 months is a $500 fine and the loss of the ccw permit for 3 years.

 

Numerous other states similar.  Why is no one in TN interested in this issue?

[Radlink54]

How many people in this state have been charged with that?

The best thing that could happen would be constitutional carry. Other states have it I see no reason it couldn’t happen here.

Because the POTENTIAL penalty as now written is so punitive, it does not matter that few if any have been charged so far.  What if a very liberal mayor of a major city in middle TN decides to make an example of someone.  If you are like a lot of us with professional license whether you are a doctor or lawyer or teacher or coach...this could destroy your career.  And it could be a true honest mistake because posting has no legal requirement for consistency or conspicuity.   Yeah concealed is concealed but I prefer a legal pass on the front end to a fight on the back end.

 

Thus a "no criminal penalty if you leave when asked" is an important "out" to preserve our rights whether constitutional carry is in place or not.

 

Of all the things any pro gun organization or politician could be interested in, I am constantly confused how this has no traction in TN.

[300winmag]

The sign law is garbage and needs to be changed.  It has the potential to be used in a bad way against good people with permits.  I guess the NRA and some of the politicians are more concerned about their "Stand Up to Obama" noise than actually fixing the problems handgun carry permit people face.  It took five years for them to somewhat fix the park carry law.  I guess that is the pace of carry permit reform here.

 

If you ever did get Constitutional carry here, you will see even more no gun signs than you see now with all the media attention.  What good will constitutional carry do you when every place you go to you risk a weapons charge over a sign?  If you actually carry most of the time, then it will be a huge pain to deal with to be legal.  It already is a pain in downtown Nashville or downtown Memphis.  But I guess if you only carry on Saturday when you go to Wal Mart and McDonald's, then it isn't a big deal.

Edited February 9, 2016 by 300winmag

[M1_Garand]

I've been following the Texas open carry law change with some interest, and it seems at least on the surface, that more folks open carrying has lead to more businesses being posted.

 

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82553

 

You can peruse some of the other threads, but the general gist is that businesses and the anti-gun folks have used open carry as an excuse to get businesses to post "no gun" signs that carry legal weight.

 

I'm all for constitutional carry, but I'm afraid that the same thing will happen here if we don't have the sign issue addressed first.

[Oh Shoot]

I've been following the Texas open carry law change with some interest, and it seems at least on the surface, that more folks open carrying has lead to more businesses being posted.

 

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82553

 

You can peruse some of the other threads, but the general gist is that businesses and the anti-gun folks have used open carry as an excuse to get businesses to post "no gun" signs that carry legal weight.

 

I'm all for constitutional carry, but I'm afraid that the same thing will happen here if we don't have the sign issue addressed first.

 

Texas didn't get constitutional carry. They simply got the same thing we have here, open carry with a permit. Except they have three different gun posting types that carry penalty of law instead of our single one.  The "51%" penalty is a 3rd Degree felony and the other two are Class A Misdemeanors.

 

- OS

[300winmag]

The 30.06 violation was brought down to a C misdemeanor fine from what I understand similar to a speeding ticket.  Not great but better than before.  Texas honestly does not have the best carry laws.

[M1_Garand]

Texas didn't get constitutional carry. They simply got the same thing we have here, open carry with a permit. Except they have three different gun posting types that carry penalty of law instead of our single one.  The "51%" penalty is a 3rd Degree felony and the other two are Class A Misdemeanors.

 

- OS

Right, but they did get an increase (or at least a publicly perceived increase) of folks open carrying weapons which caused the "pearl clutchers" to freak out and start posting places. Depending on the final product for constitutional carry after it got through the legislative process (and assuming it actually passed), I'm afraid the same thing could happen here.

[Omega]

As an outsider I thought Texas of all places would be more open to the idea of open carry.  But I see that Texas has the same kind of signage law we do. 

There may be an increased number of businesses that post their doors in the beginning, but when they begin to lose business because of it they will change their mind.  But we as gun rights supporters need to stand firm and refuse to do business with them if they post their premises, and make it known why you refuse to do so.  Many times I hear of CCW permit holders dropping of their weapon in their cars to get that piece of pizza, or burger instead of going somewhere else. I understand there will be times where that is not feasible, such as post offices, utilities, etc. but wherever possible we need to vote with our feet and $$.  I am not opposed to open carry, but I prefer concealed; but for some reason they(anti's) feel like burying their heads in the sand and would rather not know you are armed or not.

 

I remember talking to a guy once for almost an hour about this and that with no issue until we began a discussion of carrying.  Once he discovered that there was a gun on me his demeanor changed, was a short conversation after that before he had other things to do.

[300winmag]

I don't think business lost over people who carry not patronizing a business would make much difference.  Not enough people regularly carry. 

[Oh Shoot]

The 30.06 violation was brought down to a C misdemeanor fine from what I understand similar to a speeding ticket.  Not great but better than before.  Texas honestly does not have the best carry laws.

 

Yeah, with further read I see that now, thanks. I guess the 30.07 is the same, though I can't find that right off.

 

The "carry in a bar" though is really severe, unlike here where it's perfectly legal if not posted in general.

 

- OS

Edited February 9, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[diamondback]

That's right.  The no gun sign law is something that can potentially cause problems.  What good is Constitutional carry when you can't legally carry anywhere because of all the no gun signs that are put up because of the media scare over it?  I saw it happen in Mississippi when open carry was basically legalized.  If you didn't have an enhanced license you were out of luck at a lot of properties.  Bad thing is here, we don't have any enhanced license so you would be illegally carrying.

 

It's easy for people to say "Well just don't go there", but when a good chunk of the downtown area of a major city has no gun signs on both the private and public property, it becomes quite a hassle to try to be legal when you are running back and forth to your car to leave your gun.  Sometimes you can't avoid going to say a local government building or a hospital.  It's not like people can take their big stand and boycott those type of places.

 

Constitutional carry will get nowhere in this legislature.  The people that put the bill out there will get their pat on the back by the NRA and we'll have another year of nothing of substance that actually passes.

Some states had it where they carry no force of law. In theory if CC the only way you will have to use it is if need be. If a cc holder stops a mass shooter or something it would be a public relations nightmare to press charges.

 

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.. I will admit that. You know what I think about those signs? I don't think criminals will leave their guns at home. I think they will go places where most people would be unarmed as they make easy targets. That is just me though.

[rmiddle]

I don't think business lost over people who carry not patronizing a business would make much difference.  Not enough people regularly carry. 

 

Where I am living there is only 1 place that I have found with a gun buster sign but the places we go to on a regular base know us.  I am a big guy and we tip pretty well so the servers remember us.  Although I have seen people open carrying in the area no one seems to notice or care.  If one of the places I go regularly were to put up a gun buster I would make sure the people who know me their know I wasn't coming back unless that sign were removed.  It might not be enough to get them to remove the sign but it would sure give them a pause.

 

Thanks

Robert 

[Worriedman]

HB 1748 as amended is on notice in Civil Justice sub Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:00.  Would be nice to see some additional support in the room.

[ken56]

The bigger cities dictate pretty much what the rest of the state must put up with, just like here in TN. The rural areas have no problem with it.  I have heard stories of local law enforcement agencies giving those signs to businesses and firmly recommending they post them. Govmnt has no business taking over private property owners responsibilities  to control their own businesses by making a sign have the weight of law. If they post then I guess they wont have to wet themselves asking someone openly carrying to please leave their store.

 

I have to agree that TN needs to address this issue too, signs should not instantly turn a person into a criminal just by virtue of not seeing it and walking past it into a business. If any business owner does not want my money he should tell me that face to face and not hide behind some sign. While denying posted businesses our patronage may not amount to much, it sure makes me feel better knowing I did not contribute to their welfare.

[Worriedman]

Civil Justice Sub-Committee:

Jim Coley (R) (615) 741-8201 rep.jim.coley@capitol.tn.gov
Bill Beck (D) (615) 741-3229 rep.bill.beck@capitol.tn.gov
Mike Carter (R) (615) 741-3025 rep.mike.carter@capitol.tn.gov
Sherry Jones (D) (615) 741-2035 rep.sherry.jones@capitol.tn.gov
Jon Lundberg (R) (615) 741-7623 rep.jon.lundberg@capitol.tn.gov

[KaNaPaPi]

The latest fiscal note added to the bill shows equal revenue loss and expenditure loss.  This means the state will neither gain or lose money from passing this bill.

 

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/109/Fiscal/SB1483.pdf

[Worriedman]

The latest fiscal note added to the bill shows equal revenue loss and expenditure loss.  This means the state will neither gain or lose money from passing this bill.

 

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/109/Fiscal/SB1483.pdf

What is not apparent on the surface is that they show a huge loss of jobs within DOS, the reduced expenditures kill the  bill.  All lies of course, they had a $17M+ surplus from the Permit Division offered us after ROI request were filed.

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Worriedman

[xsubsailor]

 I just got this in my e-mail:

 

On Tuesday, March 8, the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to hear Senate Bill 1483, sponsored by state Senate Senator Mark Green (R-22).

On Wednesday, March 9, the House Civil Justice Subcommittee is scheduled to hear SB 1483’s companion bill, House Bill 1748, sponsored by state Representative Judd Matheny (R-47).

SB 1483 /HB 1748 would allow anyone who is 21 years of age or older who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun, to carry a handgun without a permit.  This important legislation would allow law-abiding gun owners the ability to better protect themselves and their loved ones, and to choose the best method of carrying for them, based on their attire, gender and/or physical attributes.

Please contact members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and politely urge them to support Senate Bill 1483 when it comes up for a vote.  Please also contact members of the House Civil Justice Subcommittee and politely urge them to support House Bill 1748 when it comes up for a vote.