Smith Governor/Taurus Judge

[WeagleMCvet]

I'm looking at picking one of these two up for my parents.  I was wondering how the recoil is when shooting the 410 shotshells through it. I'm sure I could handle it just fine, I just don't know if this is the best thing for two smaller, older (60's), and inexperienced shooters. any help will be greatly appreciated.

[10-Ring]

I can't remember what size shotgun shells we were shooting out of my FIL's Judge but the .45 packed a lot more punch (recoil) than the shotshells did.  I wouldn't recommend this as a casual house gun, it's big, clunky, and heavy.  Instead I would look a either a pump, single, or double barrel shotgun with a 18" barrel, or a .357/.38 revolver. 

[TNWNGR]

Well the Thunder-Five was a good bit heavier then the Judge or Govenor and had more of a strong push back with shotshells then a harsh kick. But when you fired a .410 slug out of it that strong push back became more of a get your attention recoil. Not terrible but not for everybody either. FWIW it I were purchasing a .410 for personal defense it'd be a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip. Otherwise I'd go with a good 3" 38/357 if I were going with a revolver.

[WeagleMCvet]

that's kinda what I was thinking, he wanted a shotgun and pistol for the house. theyre not gun people, but there was a triple homicide just a couple minutes from their house in GA. I was thinking two birds with one stone with the judge, but any 38+P is pretty manageable. and can go wrong with a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870

[wjh2657]

Welcome to my parlor said the spider to the fly.

 

Mossberg 500A (12 Gauge) with Overmold stock and lazer/light combo. S&W 686 .357 Magnum.

 

[bersaguy]

I would suggest a nice 20 gauge side by side loaded with 00 buck and have a few shells close by for back up..............jmho

[cjohnson44546]

The tiny little ones (public defender) or polymer judges pack quite a kick.  The full size ones and the Governor are pretty nice shooting.

 

I'm not sure either of these are good for someone who hasn't at least tried it out though... they aren't for everyone.

 

Might be better off with a 38 or 357 if your looking for a handgun for someone who isn't really into guns much and will probably let is sit unused for years and still want it to work.

 

If you want to spend a lot of money... the S&W M&P R8 shoots awesome... hard to beat 8 rounds of 357 too.

Edited January 19, 2016 by cjohnson44546

[Patton]

In my FIL's Judge the shotshells are about like a .38spl in the same size and weight of gun. I will tell you though, even some of the more glamorous .410 loads penetrate very poorly out of pistol length barrels. I had some plastic 55 gallon drums that I used to shoot into and most all of the .410 loads made it through only one side. Similar penetration was found when I shot .25acp and .32acp guns. I could often shot through multiple barrels with even 9/40/45 hollow points. I am not saying I will never carry a .410 pistol, I actually want an American Derringer .410, but I have not found .410's to be the man stopped some believe it to be.

[ma6907]

The problem that I have with this platform is that a 410 shotgun shell fired through a barrel that short does not have enough energy to neutralize an attacker, (especially wearing a leather jacket or several layers).  a plain 45 or even a 9mm or 40 would be more effective.  If you look at their marketing, they are really going for a "get off me" gun for very close range or car use.  I am not knocking the premise, but when you really look at the ballistics, you would be WAY better off with a .357 magnum and a Remington 870 loaded with  00 buckshot.  I remember in my training, I was taught--"If a person is shot with a pistol, they will probably live.  If shot with a shotgun, they will probably die."

Edited January 19, 2016 by ma6907

[Patton]

Yeah, I am fascinated with the Judge, and especially the Governor, for the ability to fire more than one cartridge. In actuality, any distance that .410 shells will be effective a solid projectile from a 38/9/40/45 should be able to find its way. The distance, within ten feet, that the shotshell is effective, pistol accuracy is not a concern anyway.

[kcruisin]

I like the Judge, I'm not sure what it's good for.
It's got a very heavy trigger, I'm sure it's not for feeble hands and fingers.
After watching Hickok45 on youtube, I would only use a 410 to detour someone.

The small 'Taurus 85', 38 special, has a nice trigger and stopping power.
'Also X2 on the 500, you've got to know how to use it, but it is fairly simple and easy. I'm glad to have one by my bed.

[ma6907]

Ballistics and penetration can be made to be very complicated but it can also be made very simple.  If we use the concept of ballistics gel, the chest wall of a human man is the equivalent of approximately 8 inches of ballistics gel penetration.  Once the projectile has penetrated the chest wall, it would need another 3-5 inches of penetration to sever vital vessels, heart, and lung.  These organs are very soft so it does not take much more energy.  the chest wall however is quite dense and contains bones (ribs) so much more energy is required to penetrate that very short distance.  310 shells do not have enough to penetrate the chest wall, so basically you would just be pissing off the attacker(--unless you shot them in the face and put out an eye?)  The concept of ballistics gel was developed after the 1986 shootout in Miami where the FBI cornered 2 bank robbers and a shootout ensued.  Many many shots were fired during this shootout but the attackers, although hit 12 times (one of the guys) continued to fire and attack.  The FBI decided we need a better way to evaluate handgun power and Dr Martin Fackler invented the concept of ballistics gel.  Prior to this, for centuries, any time an attacker was not neutralized, the attitude was "we need a bigger gun".  This attitude still continues to this day.  (BUT, when you look at the science, bigger is not ALWAYS better.)  The FBI and SAMMI came up with standards for law enforcement use.  That standard is approximately 12 inches (minimum) of ballistics gel penetration, but not more than 15 inches of penetration, is required for a cartridge to qualify as allowed for law enforcement.  This is why the arguement of "which is best" will never really go away.  Because some do not understand these numbers.  Basically, if you are buying name brand ammo, and it is law enforcement certified, the common defensive calibers are ALL THE SAME.  They all penetrate 12-14 inches, they all expand to around .62 caliber if they achieve standard expansion.  If they DON'T, they cannot be used.  (This is why most .380 ammo cannot be used by law enforcement.  This is changing with the surge of .380 popularity and I assume very soon, some will come up with a 13-14 inch penetrating .380).  My point in saying all of this is that you do not get anywhere near 12 inches of penetration with a 410 shell.  Even with slugs.  And why would anyone want to shoot a 410 slug when you can shoot the same caliber projectile (45 long colt) which IS made to shoot down a shorter barrel, penetrates better, and is usually cheaper.  I know this is long winded and boarders on being inciting to those who like to argue, but I am attempting to explain why I think a 410 judge is a very bad home defense weapon.  Get a 357 if you want a small revolver.  If you like bigger and want a revolver, get a 44 magnum.  If 44 magnum is too much recoil, load it with 44 special.  Very good ballistics and shoots about like a 22 when fired from a heavier 44 magnum weapon.  44 special loaded into my Dan Wesson 8 inch 44 magnum revolver is my wife's favorite weapon to shoot at the range and the one she chooses when she takes her newbie female friends to the range.  Very light recoil.

[musicman]

I'm of the opinion that the judge/guv is more a novelty than anything else. The only way I see it having a real purpose is for up close small pests like rats, etc. Or, for horseback riders it would be a perfect snake gun. For defense against humans or canines, the 410 out of that pistol is very ineffective. 45 Colt is a good round, but then you've got a ridiculously huge pistol to deliver an overpriced round. Like others have said, a good old pump shotty or normal pistol may very well be a much better choice. Edited January 19, 2016 by musicman

[jgradyc]

If you're going with 410, consider the Circuit Judge. It's tiny... about the size of a child's Crickett. Easy to handle indoors. Single and double action. I have the black model with a laser in a scabbard on the bedpost. My wife, a non shooter, has instructions to 1) Put green dot on target. 2) Pull trigger. 3) Repeat until bad guy is discouraged from moving. 

 

FWIW: The PDX ammo pattern is not symmetrical and scatters after about 30 feet. Ammo is expensive, but as non shooters, that doesn't matter. Buckshot is really hard to find. You'd probably need to order online. I keep two PDX and three #4 shot in the cylinder. 

 

Oh, and your face is really close to the cylinder when shooting. That's another reason for the laser. 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by jgradyc

[jgradyc]

Following up on my previous post, I wouldn't recommend a 12 gauge, 357, and so on. If you give these guns to an old, small, non shooter, these guns are going to kick like hell. Grandma is going to refuse to shoot it and will probably be afraid of it. In my first hand experience, my wife isn't going to shoot often enough to handle a pump shotgun or any handgun with a kick. 

 

Our bedside guns are Circuit Judge and the Kel Tec Sub2000 in 40 caliber. The Sub2000 is very manageable and short enough to indoors. I have the Kel Tec on one side of the bed and the Circuit Judge on the other.

[dcloudy777]

.410 shotshells out of a short barrel cannot be counted on to reliably penetrate enough to stop an attacker.

 

Your folks would be better served with a good medium-frame steel .357/.38 revolver.  A long gun would be good too.  AR15s can be intimidating for older folks, something like an M1 Carbine (expensive these days, unfortunately) or even a lever-action .30-30 might be more palatable and still very effective.

[Preacher357]

The S & W 686 would be a great choice for them if they were to use .38 special self defense ammo.  The .357 magnum rounds might be too much.  Another great option might be a S&W 629 44 Magnum with .44 special self defense ammo (not the easiest to find, but Hornady makes it in their critical defense line).   My wife is not much on shooting and is extremely recoil sensitive.  She would much rather shoot .44 special from my 629 than .38 special from my 686.  The 44 special rounds are just very easy to shoot out of that big heavy 629 and you will be getting comparable velocity to the .38 special out of a bullet that is 55 grains larger (in the Hornady Critical Defense rounds).

Edited January 20, 2016 by jascott