Cz and sig?

[zybysco]

Do CZs still break from dry firing? They are the only modern gun I can think of that can be damaged dry firing, excluding rimfires.

[GlockSpock]

Do CZs still break from dry firing? They are the only modern gun I can think of that can be damaged dry firing, excluding rimfires.

There are forum after forum stating that Glocks are damaged from dry firing if you do it enough.


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[zybysco]

There are forum after forum stating that Glocks are damaged from dry firing if you do it enough.


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Really? I can't even take that comment seriously. I like CZs, but that has been a problem for quite some time. Had you said that the issue was fixed, then I would feel better about them.

They feel like a hi power in the hand which is extremely high praise. I'm really surprised more manufacturers don't mimic the hi power grip more. The Sig doesn't feel as good. The Sig feels awful to me trying to shoot left handed. That extra hump from the decocker sure does mess with me.

They (CZ) do make some pretty nice rifles. I'm surprised they aren't more popular.

[GlockSpock]

Really? I can't even take that comment seriously. I like CZs, but that has been a problem for quite some time. Had you said that the issue was fixed, then I would feel better about them.

They feel like a hi power in the hand which is extremely high praise. I'm really surprised more manufacturers don't mimic the hi power grip more. The Sig doesn't feel as good. The Sig feels awful to me trying to shoot left handed. That extra hump from the decocker sure does mess with me.

They (CZ) do make some pretty nice rifles. I'm surprised they aren't more popular.

Why can you not take it seriously?

I carry a Glock so no prejudice here.

http://www.glockforum.com/Should-You-Dry-Fire-a-Glock.html

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/24122-CAUTION-from-Glock-on-Dry-Firing!



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[Obiwan]

Uhm, it's my understanding that you should avoid dry-firing most if not all guns. Firing pins are designed to impact the primer. In absence of a round in the chamber, something has to impact something else. Either the firing pin return spring is going to compress beyond its designed travel/limit, or the firing pin will hit the end of the channel (which may be okay if it is designed to take that impact). Or, as in case of CZ's, the retaining pin.

 

CZ's come from the factory with a roll pin there, not a solid pin. It is the constant impact by the firing pin that will mash and eventually destroy the roll pin.

 

You can either upgrade that part to a solid pin, in which case the energy still has to go somewhere, which means that while the pin might be fine, the firing pin is now taking the beating, or simply use a snap cap.

 

The basic problem is the same with other guns. Without a primer, the energy of the firing pin moving forward is going somewhere else.

 

It doesn't mean the firing pin is going to break on a single dry fire. It's the repeated dry firing that is causing damage. Use a snap cap for your dry firing practices.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Obiwan

[Bigiron]

I had lusted for a CZ for decades.  And a Ruger LC9s.  Wife bought me both as a Christmas present, At Royal Range.

The CZ P01 fits my hand very well.  It has a decocker, which decreases trigger travel in DA mode.  CZ and Sig both make a durable and reliable handgun, but the CZ feels much better in my hand.

[Monkeybat]

Regardless of manufacturer recommendation I toss in snap caps for dry fire. Problem solved? I hope so because I'm burning up the trigger with DA dry fire practice.


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[BigK]

Do CZs still break from dry firing? They are the only modern gun I can think of that can be damaged dry firing, excluding rimfires.

 

Last time  heard someone say don't dry fire a CZ, they were talking about the CZ52 and some of the early CZ70 models. Metallurgy has improved a lot since then. Nonetheless, I'd be interested to hear what might make CZ more prone to dry fire damage than another pistol.

[Obiwan]

Last time  heard someone say don't dry fire a CZ, they were talking about the CZ52 and some of the early CZ70 models. Metallurgy has improved a lot since then. Nonetheless, I'd be interested to hear what might make CZ more prone to dry fire damage than another pistol.

 

The "issue" is that CZ's, from the factory, come with two roll pins to retain the firing pin. Repeated use will weaken and break the roll pin.

 

Here are a couple pictures: 

  Click me (Photobucket)

  Click me too (Photobucket)

 

Replacing the pins with solid pins will help. But again, you still have parts of the firing pin banging on stuff it wasn't designed to do. No harm in doing it occasionally, but why take the chance? Use a snap cap. Or use a rubber O-ring on the back of the slide. Or anything else that will take the impact instead of the firing pin.

[teecro]

Guess I'll have to read the manual closely for advise against dry firing on my RAMI decocker, I've skimmed it before but don't recall any warning against. I don't make a big habit of dry firing any of my guns much at all anyway. As to what the name SIG or CZ means to me? Quality all metal guns right up there with Beretta ect. I really like my RAMI a lot over the dozen or so guns I've had or have, same to be said for the SIG 938 too....

[Obiwan]

Guess I'll have to read the manual closely for advise against dry firing on my RAMI decocker, I've skimmed it before but don't recall any warning against. I don't make a big habit of dry firing any of my guns much at all anyway. As to what the name SIG or CZ means to me? Quality all metal guns right up there with Beretta ect. I really like my RAMI a lot over the dozen or so guns I've had or have, same to be said for the SIG 938 too....

 

No need. The RAMI manual does not caution again dry-fires. In fact, on page 9 it even suggests it in this section:

 

Unloading

Always make sure the pistol is pointed in a safe direction.

- Remove the magazine.

- Draw back the slide and verify the last cartridge has been extracted from the chamber and ejected.

- Left the slide snap fully forward.

- Depress the trigger (dry fire).

 

Again, doing that once in a while is not a problem. The problem is repeated dry-firing, like during practices. 

I would think most of us don't let the slide snap fully forward on an unloaded chamber either. We gently ride it forward because we love our guns, right? We should extend the same courtesy to our firing pins. :)

 

BTW: From what I hear, the Beretta manual does include a caution about dry-firing. I don't have a manual to verify that, though.

 

Oh, and yes. The RAMI rocks. :)

Edited January 30, 2016 by Obiwan

[BigK]

I rarely hunt down a snap cap before I dry fire any of my CZs, so this is all news to me. I've dry fired my P-01 alone thousands and thousands of times. Maybe it will eventually break it. Who knows? I can't agree that damaging a roll pin is the same as breaking the gun.

 

Lately I've been seeing of people talking about or wanting to buy cz and sig. I'm familiar with the polymer guns like glock. Also like 1911 but I've just never looked at sigs or cz. What are some of advantages they hold over other guns or does it all come down to preference?

 

Along with the awesomeness of a hammer and sear, which you might chalk up to personal preference, you get double strike capability, the option of having a decocker, and best of all you don't have to rack the slide to reset the trigger.