Customer gets into open carry dispute

[LagerHead]

So since all cops open carry, all open carriers have the same authority and responsibility as cops?

 

Yea, that's exactly what I said. Hey, at least you didn't completely dodge the question.

[peejman]

So the OC'er should have asked the cop for his permit to carry?  I'd guess the cop was wearing it on his jacket.  Maybe if OC'er was wearing one of these on his jacket, the cop wouldn't have bothered him. 

 

 

 

 

If I've misunderstood the double standard to which you're referring, please elaborate.

[JayC]

As much as we may like to, you can't get rid of all jerks in society...  just isn't going to happen.  But demanding that your tax dollars don't go towards the salary of one is a reasonable request :)

 

People have the freedom to express themselves as a jerk...  I just draw the line at employing them in positions of great authority and responsibility with my tax dollars.  If you're not mature enough to recognize people have a right to deny unlawful orders, and not over react then you probably shouldn't be a police officer.

 

There are plenty of videos out there showing police officers interacting with open carry activists in a positive way, they're still making sure the people carrying the guns aren't criminals, crazy, or a threat to their communities, but they're not violating anybody's rights, and don't act like jerks...  here are a couple of examples:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaWyKYCdOl0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LRteKrvRWc

 

Is it really unreasonable to set the bar that ALL police officers be held to this standard?  That if a police officer can't handle interacting with people not breaking the law similar to the above encounters, that the public should demand they no longer be police officers?

 

Or even better yet a simple test, if you're a police officer and walk up on a guy who is open carrying, video taping, and asks you what you're PC or RAS is for the stop, and can quote you the state law in question...  that you're probably dealing with a citizen that wants you to over react...  and the SMART thing to do is not give them what they want.  If in those situation you're not able to recognize the situation you're in an control your temper, you probably don't belong in the uniform you're wearing.

 

No argument, both were being dickheads.  But I still say that had the OC'er not defaulted to dickhead, the entire encounter might have been positive rather than negative. 

 

[peejman]

I don't disagree that cops should be held to a fairly high standard. However, I also think that our expectations for them to understand the nuances of a huge variety of laws that we ourselves have a hard time fully grasping is a bit much at times. Last I checked, cops don't get paid quite as much as lawyers, so expecting them to behave like one is a bit much.

And you never know what that cop was doing 30 mins ago that might affect his/her attitude. It may have been decidedly more unpleasant than some nitwit trying to bait them into a mistake.

[NextExit]

[Chucktshoes]

And you never know what that cop was doing 30 mins ago that might affect his/her attitude. It may have been decidedly more unpleasant than some nitwit trying to bait them into a mistake.

Wholly immaterial to the situation and a specious argument at best. When one acts under the authority and color of law, one is obligated to treat each individual and situation on its own merits and act in a lawful manner. I don't care if you saw the most horrific crime in history 30 seconds ago, if emotionally you can't do your job justly and fairly, you need to go handle your shit until you can. I was a retail manager for 13 years and I expected my minimum wage cashiers to be able to treat everyone with kindness and respect. If they didn't, they got fired. Why should we expect any less of someone who has authority from the state to end someone's life on the thinnest of pretexts?

[ken56]

So since all cops open carry, all open carriers have the same authority and responsibility as cop?

The  Supreme court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect any individual. That means they can stand by and watch as you are murdered and then arrest the person who did it, go to court and testify to what they witnessed and hopefully the jury will convict your killer. So what responsibilities do you perceive the police have?  What responsibilities do CCers have? OCers have?  Citizens are not vested with the states authority nor do they enjoy the same protections of sworn police officers, so why would you think they have any kind of authority at all? I carry because it is my RIGHT under the 2A, not by any authority vested upon me. What do you have against open carry? is that your issue? or do you have a police background, family that are police officers, or what ?  You can handle any interactions with the authorities as you see fit for yourself. I refuse to condemn another for how they handle their interactions.

[peejman]

The  Supreme court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect any individual. That means they can stand by and watch as you are murdered and then arrest the person who did it, go to court and testify to what they witnessed and hopefully the jury will convict your killer. So what responsibilities do you perceive the police have?  What responsibilities do CCers have? OCers have?  Citizens are not vested with the states authority nor do they enjoy the same protections of sworn police officers, so why would you think they have any kind of authority at all? I carry because it is my RIGHT under the 2A, not by any authority vested upon me. What do you have against open carry? is that your issue? or do you have a police background, family that are police officers, or what ?  You can handle any interactions with the authorities as you see fit for yourself. I refuse to condemn another for how they handle their interactions.

 

 

Stand there and watch people die.  Yep, that's what cops do all day, every day.  :shake:

 

 

I don't have anything against open carry.  I have issues with morons with feelings of inadequacy who get their rocks off trying be the next youtube hero by filming themselves "standing up to the man".  Their inability to carry on an intelligent conversation and immediately defaulting to butt hurt does nothing but work against what they claim their end game is.  I also have issues with this constant "us vs. them" attitude.  I refuse to accept the notion that the police are the Gestapo.  The majority are just people trying to do a pretty sucky job dealing with society's dregs for a pretty sucky paycheck.  I'll agree that there's certainly a few bad apples with a badge, but treating all of them like crap doesn't make anything better, it makes everything worse.

 

After that encounter, do you think that cop is more or less likely to hassle someone open carrying?  I bet he laughed his ass off when he walked away.  I'll bet he told all his cop buddies about it and I'll bet they all laughed too.   So while the OC'er may think he won, all he did was stir the pot. 

[diamondback]

The  Supreme court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect any individual. That means they can stand by and watch as you are murdered and then arrest the person who did it, go to court and testify to what they witnessed and hopefully the jury will convict your killer. So what responsibilities do you perceive the police have?  What responsibilities do CCers have? OCers have?  Citizens are not vested with the states authority nor do they enjoy the same protections of sworn police officers, so why would you think they have any kind of authority at all? I carry because it is my RIGHT under the 2A, not by any authority vested upon me. What do you have against open carry? is that your issue? or do you have a police background, family that are police officers, or what ?  You can handle any interactions with the authorities as you see fit for yourself. I refuse to condemn another for how they handle their interactions.

I forget the case, but I often use that again anti's. Most cops will protect, but with that case you never know.