Customer gets into open carry dispute

[NextExit]

Kind of brave considering it's Connecticut. Didn't know they had open carry.

http://www.eater.com/2016/1/15/10775084/open-carry-law-customer-subway-connecticut-police-dispute?ref=yfp

[DWARREN123]

Open carry is not my first choice but the LEOs should be following the laws about it.

[peejman]

I get the idea of exercising your rights. I don't get the idea of being a whiny dick about it, especially to cops. They're like fish on a hook. You dangled the bait, they bit on it, and the harder you reel, the harder they fight back. You're never going to win the "reasonable suspicion" argument with a cop.

Be nice. Show them your ID. Then show the open carry law that you've got bookmarked on your phone for just this sort of occasion. Explain politely. Offer to talk to their boss and explain it to the whole department. Be nice.

[Jamie Jackson]

Arguing with the police is simply stupid...it's a no-win situation.

 

I can appreciate standing up for your Constitutionally Protected Rights... but there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. Polite and respectful interaction is much more likely to work in your favor, not kowtowing, but not being a jerk either.

 

I don't envy the job cops have to do. This guy was a confrontational butt-head and the cops appeared to be to be acting quite professionally...

 

I carry concealed for a reason. Don't want nor need the drama.

 

Just my observation and viewpoint.

[10-Ring]

I am 100% in favor of legal OC, I'm also 100% against acting like a donkey's rear while doing it.  I generally prefer to OC while hiking, fishing, etc. generally in a remote outdoor setting where I'm not going to come into contact with many people.  There is no need in getting the sheep all riled up no matter how much fun it can be.  I think the biggest issue responsible gun owners face on the subject of OC is the lack of discretion by most all of the people who OC in public places.  If this opinion offends you then suck it up butter cup. 

Edited January 16, 2016 by 10-Ring

[Omega]

Since this is a snippet of an incident I will hold judgement on his reaction; however, depending on how the patrolman approached him I may be inclined to side with the open carry guy.  LEO should know the law, and if a call comes in (which may or may not be the case here) about someone with a gun they should: approach the individual if he is being belligerent or otherwise acting out, or explain to the caller that OC is legal and unless that individual is causing problems there is nothing to do about it.

 

In this case, following someone OC around is wrong, and having businesses refuse him service is sending the wrong signal; just a lose lose situation.

[ken56]

While we here in TN are obligated by law to show ID when carrying should we be asked by a LEO,  some other states do not have this same law. In traditional open carry states you are not doing anything illegal so why submit to a violation of your rights just because officer friendly doesn't like you OCing??  If you don't defend your rights firmly when you know the LEO is in the wrong then you may as well lay down and let them do what ever they wish.  Sure, you might be arrested and cuffed...... then its all up the lawyers. One of our rights is to seek redress against violations of our rights. Anyone who successfully sues a municipality for violations and wins I applaud them.  Its the only thing authority understands. Make them pay a large monetary penalty for their overreach. Don't be sheep.

[Monkeybat]

Show him the damn permit and go on.
What a jacka$$..

So true. How much trouble is it? Some police are just jerks. Some are great people but if asked I'm whipping out the permit no matter how much of a jerk he or she is being. Then I record their badge number and call their boss.

I carry OWB occasionally. Mostly just when heading to an IDPA match but occasionally when out and about. It's never really out there in the open though. I have on either a jacket or a trap style vest on so its just not right in the open.

Personally I don't like the idea of advertising that I'm carrying and I don't like the idea of being jumped for my gun so I'm always making an effort to conceal it in some manner even on the waist.

I've not been carrying long so I'm not sure how I'll approach summer yet. Winter makes concealment easy.


Sent from the Fortress of Solitude.

[NextExit]

In this case, following someone OC around is wrong, and having businesses refuse him service is sending the wrong signal; just a lose lose situation.

Well it is Connecticut... everyone is suspicious. :squint:

 

When I first read the article, that guy reminded me of another character in NH that I used to hear about... he drove around with no plates, registration, license and insurance and when he appeared before the judge, he demanded to know where in the constitution those things were required.  Said he was exercising his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  B) 

[crossfire]

Show him the damn permit and go on.
What a jacka$$..

Just a butt hole looking for his 15 minutes of fame. Move on nothing to see here. :ignore:

[bersaguy]

I also think the guy was a jerk! I respect all LEO's if they show me respect up front. Asking to see a carry permit is nothing to get so upset about. I have been asked once to show my permit by an officer while pulled over for a seat belt issue in which I was not ticketed for  because I did have my belt buckled up. Just not the shoulder strap. Showed the officer my Drivers license, proof of insurance and carry permit. Officer was very professional and turned me loose and told me to have a nice day.................. :cheers:

[peejman]

While we here in TN are obligated by law to show ID when carrying should we be asked by a LEO, some other states do not have this same law. In traditional open carry states you are not doing anything illegal so why submit to a violation of your rights just because officer friendly doesn't like you OCing?? If you don't defend your rights firmly when you know the LEO is in the wrong then you may as well lay down and let them do what ever they wish. Sure, you might be arrested and cuffed...... then its all up the lawyers. One of our rights is to seek redress against violations of our rights. Anyone who successfully sues a municipality for violations and wins I applaud them. Its the only thing authority understands. Make them pay a large monetary penalty for their overreach. Don't be sheep.

Why go down the false arrest and subsequent legal battle rabbit hole when a modicum of cooperation followed by polite discussion would accomplish the same thing without making gun owners look like a bunch of whiny pricks?

Perhaps you've got plenty of time and money to pursue the "hammer of justice" method of education. I'd rather do it with 5 minutes of polite conversation.

[jgradyc]

Cops have a really tough job. Just show him the permit. Then, if you're curious, politely ask why you were asked to show your permit. Perhaps a scared customer freaked out. Maybe you did something unusual that caught the cop's eye. 

 

FYI, I was in Subway twice this week. I ordered a sandwich, paid, and left. No one asked about my gun because they didn't see it. It's kinda a no-brainer to me. I don't want to stand out or get delayed because someone freaked out over me carrying a gun. 

 

When I'm shopping or eating lunch, I don't want to make a political statement, I don't want to be the first guy shot because the wacko bad guy sees that I'm armed, I don't want to get in a hassle with cops.  When I'm shopping, I shop. When I'm eating, I eat. When I want to make a political statement, I vote. 

[NextExit]

That guy probably has this as his screen saver:

[crossfire]

While we here in TN are obligated by law to show ID when carrying should we be asked by a LEO,  some other states do not have this same law. In traditional open carry states you are not doing anything illegal so why submit to a violation of your rights just because officer friendly doesn't like you OCing??  If you don't defend your rights firmly when you know the LEO is in the wrong then you may as well lay down and let them do what ever they wish.  Sure, you might be arrested and cuffed...... then its all up the lawyers. One of our rights is to seek redress against violations of our rights. Anyone who successfully sues a municipality for violations and wins I applaud them.  Its the only thing authority understands. Make them pay a large monetary penalty for their overreach. Don't be sheep.

And here we go again, same old BS. We never see what leads up to the LEO asking to see his permit. We just see what happens after the LEO takes the bait. All he had to do is show his permit. No you don't have to be a sheep, but don't have to be a jackass, either.

[gregintenn]

It's often interesting when two jackasses meet. Why can't everyone just leave everyone else alone?

[btq96r]

My cousin told me that CT has open carry, but I can't remember him telling me if he's ever seen it.  I'm sure it's an oversight on the part of their legislature that it's even allowed.

 

If the guy in the video violated a law by refusing to show his carry permit, the LEO's should have arrested him and charged him with Connecticut's version of interfering with police duties, and he should have to answer in court for it, along with refusing to show a permit.  He could also be in the wrong for something else, but if he was just going about his day with nothing different than open carrying, he isn't doing anything wrong if he has a permit.

 

If there is no legal rational for an LEO to ask for a carry permit, and no law against refusal, then this was simple harassment of a citizen exercising his rights, and that's a big problem.

 

The letter of the law will determine if this guy was a jackass or not.

Edited January 16, 2016 by btq96r

[btq96r]

I think the video determined that!

 

If the officer didn't have a legal basis to compel the person to produce a carry permit, I wouldn't call said person a jackass for how he handled it.

[ken56]

I think holding our police professionals to the higher standard of  actually following the law themselves is not being a jack ass. I may agree that he may have been a little bit salty in his language but that is not against the law. I admire any citizen that stands up to authority when that authority is being exercised beyond the bounds of the law. Is that too much to expect? How others handle their contacts with LEO is up to them. I just will not condemn anyone who stands up for his rights when they are clearly being violated, how ever he sees fit to do so. I carry both openly and concealed. I see no reason to hide my rights under my shirt. It does no good in advancing the idea that good people carry guns too and can do so respectfully. I have never had anyone complain about my openly carrying, not even the 2 officers that clearly could see that I was armed. In fact, I have been thanked more than being negatively confronted for carrying. Most LEO are professional in the performance of their duties, some others are on a power trip an think they can treat people however the wish and need to be stood up to. Just my opinion.

[TMF]

[gregintenn]

I think holding our police professionals to the higher standard of  actually following the law themselves is not being a jack ass. I may agree that he may have been a little bit salty in his language but that is not against the law. I admire any citizen that stands up to authority when that authority is being exercised beyond the bounds of the law. Is that too much to expect? How others handle their contacts with LEO is up to them. I just will not condemn anyone who stands up for his rights when they are clearly being violated, how ever he sees fit to do so. I carry both openly and concealed. I see no reason to hide my rights under my shirt. It does no good in advancing the idea that good people carry guns too and can do so respectfully. I have never had anyone complain about my openly carrying, not even the 2 officers that clearly could see that I was armed. In fact, I have been thanked more than being negatively confronted for carrying. Most LEO are professional in the performance of their duties, some others are on a power trip an think they can treat people however the wish and need to be stood up to. Just my opinion.

I admire people who mind their own business. The cop failed there.

 

I also admire people who aren't assholes. The open carry guy failed there.

 

Laws notwithstanding.

[JayC]

Show me your papers please...  I seem to recall we fought a cold war against an 'evil empire' in my youth because their citizens weren't free, and required to show their papers on demand without cause.

 

I'm sorry, but we're turning into our own worse enemy...  What the cops did in this video is wrong, they had no reason to believe this guy posed a threat to anybody, and knew he wasn't breaking the law.  They tried to cause problems because he refuse a request, not a lawful order.

 

If they really thought he was a threat to the public, or was breaking the law, why not arrest him immediately?  My point exactly.

 

I also think the guy was a jerk! I respect all LEO's if they show me respect up front. Asking to see a carry permit is nothing to get so upset about. I have been asked once to show my permit by an officer while pulled over for a seat belt issue in which I was not ticketed for  because I did have my belt buckled up. Just not the shoulder strap. Showed the officer my Drivers license, proof of insurance and carry permit. Officer was very professional and turned me loose and told me to have a nice day.................. :cheers:

 

[peejman]

If the officer didn't have a legal basis to compel the person to produce a carry permit, I wouldn't call said person a jackass for how he handled it.

The trouble is, the only opinion that matters at the time of the incident with regard to legal basis is the officer's. Countless instances would indicate arguing that point on the spot has no value and only strengthens the officers's resolve. Being a dick about it just makes it worse.

[TMF]

Heh...

[JayC]

If the officers felt they were in the right, why didn't they arrest the guy?  My guess is they knew they had no lawful reason to arrest the guy, and just got upset he questions their unlawful demands.

 

The trouble is, the only opinion that matters at the time of the incident with regard to legal basis is the officer's. Countless instances would indicate arguing that point on the spot has no value and only strengthens the officers's resolve. Being a dick about it just makes it worse.