HELP! Carry permit and conditional green card.

[leprechaun]

Hey all,

Here's my story hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me. A couple of guys on here gave me some good advice on this but to no avail.  

i recently have filled out my online handgun carry permit application and have taken the carry class. Every thing went great, got 99 in the class and wend to the DMV today....Thats where things took a turn for the worst. I went to Shelbyville and Murfreesboro Dmv and both offices said that they would not process my application because i am here on a 2 year conditional green card. On the website there is no mention of a conditional green card not being accepted, All it says is i must be a citizen or a lawful permanent resident. To be a permanent resident it says i must have a permanent resident card (form i-551) which is what i have. The only difference between a conditional green card and a regular one is the conditional one is for 2 years and the regular one is for 10 years.

Are they right in saying i can not get a ccw permit or is it a case of them not knowing what they are talking about ? I really don't know where to turn now. I can't get the conditions lifted until 2017

 

Thanks to the guys who have pm'd me about this, i do appreciate their help. .

Any help would be great,

[Oh Shoot]

I guess first step is to contact the cheese of the HCP division, Lisa Knight (615) 251-8590, and see what she says.

 

HCP statue seems a bit vague, only saying "lawful permanent resident, as defined by § 55-50-102" which defines that as "...the status of having been lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws, such status not having changed"

 

And that "the applicant is not an alien and is not illegally or unlawfully in the United States"

 

The HCP site does say the Permanent Resident Alien Card (I-551) is enough, but I find that nowhere in the statue, so must be just a "rule".

 

If she says no, then she'd also have to admit the site info is in error,  then I suppose a legal challenge would be next, dunno.

 

Please do keep us posted here.

 

- OS

Edited January 12, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

Already been down the road, mentioned what to do in PM.  I know you are looking for an easier black and white answer, but the only way to handle this is how I said - also exactly what OS posted there, except he gave contact info.

 

<edit> As previously stated the DMV slugs will continue to refuse to accept your application until you show them otherwise.  It's not up to them to decide on who can apply or not, their job is to process the application.  They believe they are the gatekeepers and will continue to think so until you correct them.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Sam1

[Obiwan]

I was about to reply with the same definition (as in TCA  §55-50-102). I guess it can be argued that due to the conditional status, you are not yet permitted to reside here permanently. It's very possible that you need to wait until you get the conditional status removed, and become a Lawful Permanent Resident. But do as suggested and contact the Dept of Safety.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Obiwan

[Luke E.]

Oh Shoot, this is my brother in law that's just moved to tn. I was hoping you would see this and have someone in mind. I talked to a "generic phone jockey" a the Homeland Security office in Nashville but I knew when I was have to inform her of the law and regs as well as where they're located on their website, I was wasting my time. All she had to say was that if he had the "permanent resident I-551" that the folks at the dmv were wrong in their declining him the permit. I don't suffer idiots very well and that, in my experience" is what you are going to deal with during a trip to the dmv. We'll give Lisa Knight a call tomorrow and see what she has to say.

Hopefully some others with first hand experience with this particular issue will chime in.

[Sam1]

Hopefully some others with first hand experience with this particular issue will chime in.

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/55267-hcp-laws-for-permanent-residents/

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt HCP

[Oh Shoot]

....We'll give Lisa Knight a call tomorrow and see what she has to say.

 

Btw, contact search on TN.gov shows a different number for her than what's on the TNDOS HCP page, 615-251-5330, dunno what's up with that.

 

I have her email address somewhere also, but since they don't publish that anymore, might just piss her off or something, so try the phone first.

 

But for sure, you need to get to her specifically, I've found the other folks there to be mostly just disinformation machines.

 

- OS

Edited January 12, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Luke E.]

I contacted the 251 number when I called today and that where I stumbled upon that fountain of knowledge that I mentioned above so maybe we'll try the first one you mentioned.

[Dolomite_supafly]

My wife is a permanent resident alien and she got her HCP.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Dolomite_supafly

[Luke E.]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/55267-hcp-laws-for-permanent-residents/
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt HCP

So, Sam, what did you end up having to do or who did you have to talk to to get past this snag?

[Luke E.]

My wife is a permanent resident alien and she got her HCP.

he went to 2 dmv locations today (Shelbyville and Murfreesboro) and they didn't even let him past the "greeter" station. Just kept calling what he had "temporary status" when it has "permanent resident" in the name.

[Sam1]

So, Sam, what did you end up having to do or who did you have to talk to to get past this snag?

 

Printed off documents, went to multiple places and finally talked to the right person.  The DMV slugs are basing their decision off of what they have been told by a coworker that had bad information and that has propagated through the entire system and at this point I doubt they will ever fix it.  Mentioned to the OP that if I had to, I would walk in there with a lawyer if necessary just to prove the point...

 

The law says "permanent resident" and USCIS even states it on their everify site: https://e-verify.uscis.gov/esp/help/evhelppermrescardnumber.htm

 

 

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) issues Permanent Resident Cards (Form I-551), commonly called green cards, to individuals granted authorization to live and work in the United States on a permanent basis.

The card is green in color and contains the bearer’s name, photo, fingerprint, card number, alien/USCIS number, birth date and card expiration date, along with several security features.

 

It even describes what the card looks like for idiots that can't tell the difference between that and an EBT.

 

Just because it has a different expiration date, doesn't make it invalid.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Sam1

[Obiwan]

It even describes what the card looks like for idiots that can't tell the difference between that and an EBT.

 

Heh...

 

Yeah, the current one is green. The one I had before was white, and the one before was pink. They all have the same info on it though... you know, name, alien registration number, and the words "Permanent Resident card". Can't really be confused with a drivers license...lol

[Luke E.]

Printed off documents, went to multiple places and finally talked to the right person.  The DMV slugs are basing their decision off of what they have been told by a coworker that had bad information and that has propagated through the entire system and at this point I doubt they will ever fix it.  Mentioned to the OP that if I had to, I would walk in there with a lawyer if necessary just to prove the point...
 
The law says "permanent resident" and USCIS even states it on their everify site: https://e-verify.uscis.gov/esp/help/evhelppermrescardnumber.htm
 

 
It even describes what the card looks like for idiots that can't tell the difference between that and an EBT.
 
Just because it has a different expiration date, doesn't make it invalid.

Well I've certainly got an attorney that loves to make an ass out of people that don't know what they're talking about so maybe that's the next step if a few phone calls don't work in the morning. Every time I deal with a dmv employee I am reminded of how sick I am of sorry ass slugs receiving taxpayer funded pay checks. If your pay check is funded by tax dollars and you're not in the military, you should , as part of your job description, do everything short of literally kissing the tax paying customer's ass.
I'm very good at showing my ass but I like to make sure that I'm in the right before I do it. Based on what you're saying, this is nothing more than misinformed employees that are to lazy to dig in and try to find the truth. Tomorrow could get interesting.

[Sam1]

Yeah I told the OP not to get upset, and that they were going to tell him no before knowing anything about him or his history.  Just don't let them bring the anger out because they will shut you down quick, and at that point, they will win.

 

Instead be polite and insist on talking to the site managers, have all the documentation ready and ask them questions to show how he does not qualify, then go to the local gun forum and vent your frustrations about the POS people you just spent the day dealing with that almost caused you to have an aneurysm.

 

:)

[Luke E.]

Yeah I told the OP not to get upset, and that they were going to tell him no before knowing anything about him or his history.  Just don't let them bring the anger out because they will shut you down quick, and at that point, they will win.
 
Instead be polite and insist on talking to the site managers, have all the documentation ready and ask them questions to show how he does not qualify, then go to the local gun forum and vent your frustrations about the POS people you just spent the day dealing with that almost caused you to have an aneurysm.
 
:)

Well that's certainly good advice. I'll call a few more numbers in the morning and try to get someone higher up the chain to acknowledge that the DMV clowns are wrong and hopefully send that in email form or something else that can be printed off and taken in. They've very recently moved to the state so he's got all of his documentation out from the drivers license switch over. Hopefully they'll allow us to speak to a supervisor without having to ask if an attorney is needed but I suppose the attorney is the next play if they continue to play "hide the supervisor" or playing dumb. I googled several different DMV locations today and not a single one had a review rating of more than 1.7 so I guess it'd be foolish to walk in expecting good service.
Thanks to you and everyone else for the tips, hopefully it'll go smoothly but one of us will update.

[leprechaun]

Thanks again every one for your help and advice. 

[Sam1]

status update?

[Luke E.]

We didn't make it to the DMV today. I woke up to what sounded like a honey badger in my hvac unit so the whole day was delayed by like 3 hours. I'm hoping we'll have time to work on it tomorrow.

[Oh Shoot]

We didn't make it to the DMV today. I woke up to what sounded like a honey badger in my hvac unit so the whole day was delayed by like 3 hours. I'm hoping we'll have time to work on it tomorrow.

 

I thought you agreed that simply calling Lisa was the best first course of action?

 

- OS

[Luke E.]

I thought you agreed that simply calling Lisa was the best first course of action?

- OS

As it turns out, Lisa is one of the people he spoke with yesterday. That evidently didn't net him a gain. Might not hurt to call her again but I'm was meaning that I didn't have to time to really start into any of it today during their business hours.

[Luke E.]

I thought you agreed that simply calling Lisa was the best first course of action?

- OS

As it turns out, Lisa is one of the people he spoke with yesterday. That evidently didn't net him a gain. Might not hurt to call her again but I'm was meaning that I didn't have to time to really start into any of it today during their business hours.

[rmiddle]

Well that's certainly good advice. I'll call a few more numbers in the morning and try to get someone higher up the chain to acknowledge that the DMV clowns are wrong and hopefully send that in email form or something else that can be printed off and taken in. They've very recently moved to the state so he's got all of his documentation out from the drivers license switch over. Hopefully they'll allow us to speak to a supervisor without having to ask if an attorney is needed but I suppose the attorney is the next play if they continue to play "hide the supervisor" or playing dumb. I googled several different DMV locations today and not a single one had a review rating of more than 1.7 so I guess it'd be foolish to walk in expecting good service.
Thanks to you and everyone else for the tips, hopefully it'll go smoothly but one of us will update.

 

I have only been to the DMV in Cleveland TN and I would rate them very high.  4.7 out of 5.  They worked hard to keep things moving and get to people in under 30 min.  There was a question using my Military Birth Registration and if it was ok to act as proof of citizenship and they went to the site manager and they accepted it.  My mother has trouble standing and they had someone grab a chair so she could site down and do her paperwork.  The only reason I didn't give them a 5 out of 5 is one of the people I worked with was pretty grumpy.

 

Thanks

Robert

[Parrothead]

If you are unhappy with the service you are receiving, you should call and ask to the supervisor. If that doesn't work, contract your state representative. Walking in with a lawyer will prove to be very ineffective. I would imagine the decisions are made by policy. Policy isn't made in the field office. There is a chance of misinterpreting the policy but that should be cleared by the local management staff. Good luck.

In my opinion, you are not going to "solve" the issues you are having in a local office. Attorney in tow or not.

[Oh Shoot]

If you are unhappy with the service you are receiving, you should call and ask to the supervisor. If that doesn't work, contract your state representative. Walking in with a lawyer will prove to be very ineffective. I would imagine the decisions are made by policy. Policy isn't made in the field office. There is a chance of misinterpreting the policy but that should be cleared by the local management staff. Good luck.

In my opinion, you are not going to "solve" the issues you are having in a local office. Attorney in tow or not.

 

I don't understand the whole tack that's being taken.

 

Luke E. said, "As it turns out, Lisa is one of the people he spoke with yesterday. That evidently didn't net him a gain. Might not hurt to call her again but I'm was meaning that I didn't have to time to really start into any of it today during their business hours."

 

If Lisa at the state office says that it's not a go, then there's nothing under that level to affect. You''l have to exert legal effort on the state level, eh?

 

- OS

Edited January 17, 2016 by Oh Shoot