2016 TN Legislature

[300winmag]

Either way, I'd sure like to see the sign law neutered in some fashion.  The park law last year opened up a lot of places for legal carry and neutering the sign law would do the same thing.

[Preacher357]

I have been thinking about this lately.  What if the state passed Constitutional carry allowing all citizens to carry (open or concealed) in areas where HCP holders may currently carry and then maybe offer an enhanced HCP allowing citizens to carry everywhere that is allowable by state law, without exception.  In other words, pretty much everywhere but Federal facilities.  Since most current HCP holders would probably apply for the enhanced HCP, the state could offer Constitutional carry without losing too much revenue from HCP fees and it would also not as negatively impact ranges and trainers who would lose revenue from HCP classes, since they would still be required for the enhanced HCP.  Obviously, I think we should just respect the Constitution and let everyone carry whenever they want; but barring that, I think this might be a viable alternative and stepping stone towards complete 2nd Amendment freedom.  Does that sound reasonable or am I way off base with this one?

[Preacher357]

I would remove both the criminal charge and the fine for people with handgun carry permits.  Missouri, for example, only turns the signs into an issue if you fail to leave when asked to leave, and even then it is only a 100 dollar fine.  Missouri's sign law makes the busy body politicians feel like they are doing something but in fact it helps people with permits.  You can even carry on school property legally in Missour until someone notices you carrying and asks you to leave.  That is a lot better than Tennessee.

 

Change the wording to something like this:

 

Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (

17) of subsection 1 of this

section by any individual who holds a concealed carry

permit

issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121

shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premise

 

Just don't make the mistake of carrying on a train or public bus.  Those are crimes (especially on a bus) in Missouri.

[K191145]

I think I will write a short note to Rep. Littleton and Senator Roberts on this, I think we have made a difference in the past, got some things passed that we supported by writing and pushing our Reps and Senators. This would sure be a convenience for us, no chance for errors from TICS or NICS or if they went offline for a day. This and remove the penalty for carrying past a sign is the first two I would like to see this year.

 

 

HB0240

by Reedy

SB0207

by Niceley Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, allows a gun dealer to complete a firearms transaction with a handgun carry permit holder without requiring a criminal history record check, if the permit was issued or renewed within five years of the date of transaction. - Amends TCA Title 39. HB0240: Failed for lack of motion in: Civil Justice SubcommitteeSB0207: Assigned to General Subcommittee of Senate Judiciary Committee

 

[GKar]

 

I think I will write a short note to Rep. Littleton and Senator Roberts on this, I think we have made a difference in the past, got some things passed that we supported by writing and pushing our Reps and Senators. This would sure be a convenience for us, no chance for errors from TICS or NICS or if they went offline for a day. This and remove the penalty for carrying past a sign is the first two I would like to see this year.

 

 

 

 

 

Go here and scroll to the last calendar item to see what its up against:  dead silence.  Carter and Lundberg wouldn't touch it...and its a given that Beck and Jones won't.   And this is the excuse that will be given if any of them are asked why no one wanted to bring it up.

[K191145]

Go here and scroll to the last calendar item to see what its up against:  dead silence.  Carter and Lundberg wouldn't touch it...and its a given that Beck and Jones won't.   And this is the excuse that will be given if any of them are asked why no one wanted to bring it up.

 

Yea I know that's the main problem, trying to take a dollar away from a politician is like trying to take away a fresh salmon from a grizzly bear.

They would still have to run a check to make sure your HCP is still valid and hasn't been suspended for some reason, i'm sure they would want to charge $$$ for even that but you don't have to go through NICS for that, just the state.

Edited January 11, 2016 by K191145

[M1_Garand]

IMO signs should have no teeth legally. If someone carries past a sign and doesn't leave when asked, trespassing laws would apply.

[300winmag]

I'd like to see a TICS exemption too for handgun carry permits, but I don't think it will go anywhere because of the perceived fiscal impact on the state.

 

I think removing the no gun fine signs would be easier and might be able to fly under the radar just like the gun in cars law did a couple of years ago.  Cut the law out or heavily modify it to basically a trespass issue and there is no way there could be any fiscal impact on that sort of change, so it won't get tied up in committee.  Get the NRA and other groups to push for it. 

 

School carry would be tougher and receive a lot of media attention.  You could possibly make it legal at private schools, but I doubt it would get anywhere if it included public schools.  Constitutional carry and open carry would receive a lot of media attention too and you'd have a the state government claim that it will lose money from people not buying handgun carry permits. 

[phiferran]

IMO signs should have no teeth legally. If someone carries past a sign and doesn't leave when asked, trespassing laws would apply.

 

This would be on the top of my list this year.   

[cjohnson44546]

Why don't they make all signs on private property have force of law?  I'd really like to see someone get arrested and fined $500 for having a candy bar past a "No Food or Drink" sign.  If its good for one sign, why isn't it good for all signs?

Edited January 11, 2016 by cjohnson44546

[CJDore]

Sen Cornyn in US Senate is taking up bill to make HCP have reciprocity across state lines......please send him encouragement. :usa:

[monkeylizard]

I have been thinking about this lately.  What if the state passed Constitutional carry allowing all citizens to carry (open or concealed) in areas where HCP holders may currently carry and then maybe offer an enhanced HCP allowing citizens to carry everywhere that is allowable by state law, without exception.  In other words, pretty much everywhere but Federal facilities.  Since most current HCP holders would probably apply for the enhanced HCP, the state could offer Constitutional carry without losing too much revenue from HCP fees and it would also not as negatively impact ranges and trainers who would lose revenue from HCP classes, since they would still be required for the enhanced HCP.  Obviously, I think we should just respect the Constitution and let everyone carry whenever they want; but barring that, I think this might be a viable alternative and stepping stone towards complete 2nd Amendment freedom.  Does that sound reasonable or am I way off base with this one?

 

To me that just keeps things murky. This is a simple issue. Repeal 39-17-1359 in its entirety and be done with it. Trespassing laws still apply if asked to leave.

[Preacher357]

To me that just keeps things murky. This is a simple issue. Repeal 39-17-1359 in its entirety and be done with it. Trespassing laws still apply if asked to leave.

I agree with that in regards to 39-17-1359. My original post was concerning more than just posted signs, though. Unfortunately, I failed to make that clear. I am interested in removing all legal restrictions from the right to carry, including at schools and related functions. As I said, I believe that everyone should already have the legal right to bear arms wherever they go, but since our laws do not currently reflect that ideal, I would like to at least see legislation that would allow a citizen the ability to obtain the right to carry without restriction. We trust LEOs to carry everywhere, why not someone who has passed the same background checks? Statistically speaking (or so I have read) we as HCP holders are actually less likely to commit a crime than a LEO (no disrespect to law enforcement intended).

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[300winmag]

Mississippi has an enhanced permit that allows you to carry in more places, such as schools.  The training for the MS enhanced is basically the same thing we go through to get our TN handgun carry permit.  MS does not require training for a regular permit.

 

I agree that we just need get rid of the sign law this year.  I think that is a decent goal that has a chance of passing as some sort of technical correction.  I'd like to see handgun carry permits legal inside school buildings, but that would be an issue that would attract a lot of attention.  If we got the sign law changed, we'd be legal pretty much anywhere in this state except for courtrooms and school buildings.  Not bad compared to what it used to be here.

 

I'd like to see Constitutional carry or open carry out of principle, but don't see it happening with the finance committee games.

Edited January 11, 2016 by 300winmag

[Oh Shoot]

Sen Cornyn in US Senate is taking up bill to make HCP have reciprocity across state lines......please send him encouragement. :usa:

 

I truly hope this fails again. No more precedents regarding federal gun control of any kind should be set. A positive one is only a heartbeat different from its opposite.

 

The only gun action I'm in favor of would involve repeal, not addition.

 

- OS

Edited January 11, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[cjohnson44546]

I truly hope this fails again. No more precedents regarding federal gun control of any kind should be set. A positive one is only a heartbeat different from its opposite.

 

The only gun action I'm in favor of would involve repeal, not addition.

 

- OS

 

I don't agree.  I don't think anything will hold the Federal government or Executive actions back right now as it is, precedent or not.  In other words.. I don't think having this precedent will embolden or empower anyone to do anything they won't already do.

Edited January 11, 2016 by cjohnson44546

[Oh Shoot]

I don't agree.  I don't think anything will hold the Federal government or Executive actions back right now as it is, precedent or not.  In other words.. I don't think having this precedent will embolden or empower anyone to do anything they won't already do.

 

Well, it's all for naught anyway ...

 

- first of all, need Rep prez to get it passed

- assuming that happened, lots of states would file suit immediately, and I see no way SCOTUS would uphold it.

 

- OS

[300winmag]

We luckily have pretty good reciprocity with the TN handgun carry permit.  The live fire training and 21 age requirement seems to help with reciprocity.  About the only places you can't carry on the TN permit are states in the Mid Atlantic/Northeast, California, Illinois, and Hawaii.  You can get non resident permits in some of the east coast states that do not have reciprocity.  You can at least bring a handgun with you to California, Illinois, or Hawaii.

 

I'm surprised that some state has not filed a lawsuit with the federal government over LEOSA.

Edited January 11, 2016 by 300winmag

[Oh Shoot]

We luckily have pretty good reciprocity with the TN handgun carry permit.  The live fire training and 21 age requirement seems to help with reciprocity.  About the only places you can't carry on the TN permit are states in the Mid Atlantic/Northeast, California, Illinois, and Hawaii.  ..

 

And Virginia in about three weeks.

 

- OS

[dawgdoc]

If the sign law could not be outright repealed, how palatable to y'all would be heavily modifying the current law so that a legal sign becomes burdensome to post, like in Texas or South Carolina?  

 

I know there are some places that would post regardless, but I suspect many places that currently post would just leave up the current signs as security theater for the masses and not worry about making a new legally-required sign.  It would not be perfect, but it would better than it is now, as long as the law is explicit in the sign requirements for the crime of carrying to occur.  Maybe even add in the opportunity to leave if you walk past the sign before an arrest could be made.

 

I definitely think we (y'all) should aim for complete repeal, but this could be a plan B if needed.

Edited January 12, 2016 by dawgdoc

[CJDore]

I don't agree.  I don't think anything will hold the Federal government or Executive actions back right now as it is, precedent or not.  In other words.. I don't think having this precedent will embolden or empower anyone to do anything they won't already do.

 

I concur cj!!!!!

[monkeylizard]

If the sign law could not be outright repealed, how palatable to y'all would be heavily modifying the current law so that a legal sign becomes burdensome to post, like in Texas or South Carolina?  

 

I know there are some places that would post regardless, but I suspect many places that currently post would just leave up the current signs as security theater for the masses and not worry about making a new legally-required sign.  It would not be perfect, but it would better than it is now, as long as the law is explicit in the sign requirements for the crime of carrying to occur.  Maybe even add in the opportunity to leave if you walk past the sign before an arrest could be made.

 

I definitely think we (y'all) should aim for complete repeal, but this could be a plan B if needed.

 

I don't think the government should be enforcing private property rules. Period. There should be no law to enforce any form of a no-firearms sign any more than there should be to enforce a jacket and tie requirement at a restaurant.

[K191145]

I don't think the government should be enforcing private property rules. Period. There should be no law to enforce any form of a no-firearms sign any more than there should be to enforce a jacket and tie requirement at a restaurant.

 

Just remove the charge, they can't charge you for not wearing a jacket or tie, just tell you to leave or you will be trespassing. Should be the same with guns. 

[M1_Garand]

If the sign law could not be outright repealed, how palatable to y'all would be heavily modifying the current law so that a legal sign becomes burdensome to post, like in Texas or South Carolina?  

 

I know there are some places that would post regardless, but I suspect many places that currently post would just leave up the current signs as security theater for the masses and not worry about making a new legally-required sign.  It would not be perfect, but it would better than it is now, as long as the law is explicit in the sign requirements for the crime of carrying to occur.  Maybe even add in the opportunity to leave if you walk past the sign before an arrest could be made.

 

I definitely think we (y'all) should aim for complete repeal, but this could be a plan B if needed.

 

That was kind of the way it was a few years ago before they made the change allowing the gunbuster. Places were still posted improperly, and you were still at risk for being charged and pleading your case (and paying attorney's fees) if you caught an LEO on a bad day.

 

The signs need to have no legal weight. If a private property owner doesn't want guns on his premises, he could still use trespassing laws to get a carrier to leave.

[300winmag]

I think if the legislature spends time on this, it needs to turn the sign law into a trespassing issue or totally repeal the sign law.

 

Would the NRA or other groups be willing to lobby for this?