"I am the only one in this room professional enough" redux

[molonlabetn]

As does my Glock...

I've never seen a Glock with a loaded-chamber indicator or a striker-cocked indicator.

Granted, when the trigger of a Glock is in the rearward position, it's pretty obvious that it's not cocked, but conversely there's no way to tell that there is a round in the chamber without doing a press-check.

[Guest Phantom6]

Another TN Trooper in Trouble for a Shooting of a Different Sort.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A porn star claims a state trooper who stopped her on a highway let drug charges slide... Read the whole story here.

Marswolf wrote:

Oh dear, yet another ND....

Yup

[The Rabbi]

I think that discharge was intentional.

What an idiot. He deserves to get suspended just for stupidity. That's assuming there is any truth to her story.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

I've never seen a Glock with a loaded-chamber indicator or a striker-cocked indicator.

Granted, when the trigger of a Glock is in the rearward position, it's pretty obvious that it's not cocked, but conversely there's no way to tell that there is a round in the chamber without doing a press-check.

My G27 has a loaded-chamber indicator.

[Guest Hyaloid]

The GLOCK 19 is touted as having an unobtrusive "loaded chamber indicator", which is extremely small, and I wouldn't rely on it in a dark room under stress.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Oh dear, yet another ND that obviously has nothing to do with the gun's design....

Allright... who had 1st post, page 3 in the pool....?

[Guest Steelharp]

Another TN Trooper in Trouble for a Shooting of a Different Sort.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A porn star claims a state trooper who stopped her on a highway let drug charges slide... Read the whole story here.

Yup

That never happens to me... some guys get all the luck...

[Guest dotsun]

I've never seen a Glock with a loaded-chamber indicator or a striker-cocked indicator.

Granted, when the trigger of a Glock is in the rearward position, it's pretty obvious that it's not cocked, but conversely there's no way to tell that there is a round in the chamber without doing a press-check.

Unfortunately you'll have to do some clicking from the link as I couldn't find a way to link directly too it. Click Glock Advantage (If you can bring yourself to do so ) and hit page 9. And yes if the trigger is forward, the striker is cocked.

http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm

[Guest Hyaloid]

Here dotsun, I cut and pasted for ya:

LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR

The user has always been able to read important parameters off his GLOCK pistol at a glance.

Trigger forward = safety activated.

Trigger pulled = safety deactivated.

The pistol also shows the user whether a cartridge is in the barrel or not. The extractor also serve as a loaded chamber indicator on all GLOCK pistols – and this entirely without additional components. Visual and palpable extractor edge.

Figure top = unloaded.

Figure bottom = loaded

[Guest dotsun]

Allright... who had 1st post, page 3 in the pool....?

LMAO, and thanks for the c/p, bro.

[K191145]

You also have to with the XD. The difference is that the XD you have to fully retract the slide and lock it open as the first step. Which should be the first step anyway, to make sure the chamber is clear.

If you don't mind me being sarcastic here, my proceedure to clean my handguns, well all my guns is first and foremost make sure the gun is unloaded before I start to disassemble it. I believe that would greatly reduce any chance of accidental discharge no matter what the firearm is.

With my XD I always lock the slide back and visually look in the chamber then push the take down lever up and ease the slide forward then pull the trigger. Even then it's always pointed at the floor.

[Marswolf]

Allright... who had 1st post, page 3 in the pool....?

I don't think this officer was an idiot. He was just doing things on autopilot rather than thinking about what he was doing. He had field stripped his handgun a thousand times and wasn't concentrating on it.

We did a thread on another board to see if anyone would admit to having a ND. A surprising number of experienced shooters, a number with LE and military background, admitted to doing it. I'll bet we have some folks on this board who have done it too.

The thinking is that you want to field strip the handgun and in order to do that it has to be dry fired. So you drop the magazine and just forget the step where you extract the round from the chamber. Instead of going "click" it goes "boom." I have actually witnessed that happening with a guy who has a lot of military and Law Enforcement experience. He wasn't stupid, he just wasn't thinking.

And this is not a problem just with a Glock. It's common with most (all?) striker fired handguns. It's true of my Sterling 25 that they stopped making in 1987. It's true of XDs and Jimenez/Jennings/Bryco etc. Some M&Ps have a workaround for it, some don't.

With a lot of handguns, if you forget to remove the chambered round, no harm is done - except to your ego. I think that's the way it should be.

[Guest Hyaloid]

I don't think this officer was an idiot...

I disagree... IMHO of course. Not necessarily the fact that he had a ND, as you said, those can and do happen (I know easier with some firearms than others), but he also failed to follow 2 basic rules... be sure of your target and what is beyond, and don't point your firearm at anything you don't want to destroy.

THAT is idiotic.

[Guest Phantom6]

The GLOCK 19 is touted as having an unobtrusive "loaded chamber indicator", which is extremely small, and I wouldn't rely on it in a dark room under stress.

That's what I like about my XD. The cocking indicator is easily visible in the light and can be swept with the off hand thumb in the dark. The loaded chamber indicator is right in my sights for day light use and just as easily swept with my off hand thumb in the dark.

[Marswolf]

he also failed to follow 2 basic rules... be sure of your target and what is beyond, and don't point your firearm at anything you don't want to destroy.

Valid point. Roy Rogers taught me that.

[Guest Phantom6]

Only two causes for "accidents" with a firearm- Ignorance and carelessness. Since this guy had been through firearms training and was deemed worthy to carry a gun then ignorance was obvioulsy not the case. That leaves carelessness and carelessness is a killer when it comes to tools like firearms and chainsaws etc.

BTW while we are on the subject of ND's, one of my favorite quotes is by a former Marine, US Border Patrol agent and writer (No Second Place Winner, Tales of the Rio Grande along with countless articles) Bill Jordan. "Speed is fine. Accuracy is final". My son and one of his old high school football buddies (both are in Criminal Justice programs at UT and MTSU respectivly) ran into a guy on a range over around the Murfreesboro area that claimed to have been a former Border Patrol agent (too young to have ever worked with Jorden) that told him that he had no respect for Jorden as he had killed a man (his partner) in his office demonstration his point shooting techniques.

Now I've been shooting for 43 years and reading about Bill Jordan for about 42 of those. I have heard this story before but have NEVER encountered any real evidence that this incident ever took place. The stories have all been anticdotal in nature and began with something like "A guy I knew told me..." or "Rumor has it..." or "I read somewhere". I have yet to see a date, a name of the deceased or detailed description of the event (if there ever was such an event). I've been a trainer for years and I'm pretty sure that if I ever killed anybody doing what I do as a trainer, my career would be over.

There have been wars on other boards regarding this topic and I really don't wish to ignite anything like that here but I can't find any evidence that it happened. Anyone ever see any actual proof that this incident ever occurred or is this the urban or possibly more appropriately, sub-urban legend that it appears to be?

[molonlabetn]

If you look closely enough at just about any external extractor, you can tell if there is a cartridge under it... It's a minor argument, but that method still doesn't make it readily obvious that there is a cartridge in the chamber, especially by feel. I suppose there are adventages to each method.

[Marswolf]

I'm pretty sure that if Jordan did something like that it would be well documented.

No Second Place Winner is a great book.

[towerclimber37]

Valid point. Roy Rogers taught me that.

Personally?