"I am the only one in this room professional enough" redux

[The Rabbi]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070522/NEWS01/705220347

A state trooper was shot in the right foot and another highway patrolman was placed on administrative leave after a gun-cleaning accident Monday afternoon.

The accidental shooting happened at the Tennessee Highway Patrol Training Center on Stewarts Ferry Pike in Nashville, according to Department of Safety spokesman Mike Browning.

OAS_AD('300x250_1'); Trooper Tracy Tyler was shot in the right foot when a round was accidentally fired by Trooper John Warren, who was cleaning his gun, Browning said.

[Cannon Fodder]

I guess this gives gun haters even more ammo for banning guns. If an occifer can't keep from accidentally shooting someone how can the general public?

Wonder if they will send him back to school?

[The Rabbi]

Actually I'd see it the other way: cops arent all so professional that they dont screw up from time to time so why should they be the only ones trusted with guns.

But since the incident was local here, it wont become grist for the gun debate. Except the one as to whether Glocks are dangerous.

[Cannon Fodder]

But since the incident was local here, it wont become grist for the gun debate. Except the one as to whether Glocks are dangerous.

Keep your finger off the trigger. That is one thing that drove me nuts shooting with my uncle this weekend, he always had his finger in the guard. But he did put his thumb on the back of the slide which releases the beavertail, oh well.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Browning said training center policy requires that, when handguns are brought into the ordnance section for cleaning after firing is completed, troopers must remove the magazine, make sure the chamber is cleared and then dry-fire the gun into a barrel.

The two troopers were sitting across the table from each other in the gun-cleaning area when the gun was fired, Browning said.

"The fact that a bullet was fired leads to one conclusion," that policy wasn't followed, Browning said.

Let's see how many blame the gun. Looks like an eye-dee-ten-tee error.

[The Rabbi]

Keep your finger off the trigger. That is one thing that drove me nuts shooting with my uncle this weekend, he always had his finger in the guard. But he did put his thumb on the back of the slide which releases the beavertail, oh well.

Except with Glocks the procedure is to pull the trigger before disassembly. I would bet this is where the accident occured.

I'm not defending the officer or accusing the gun. He should have known better.

And you are right: keeping your bugger puller off the bang switch is a sure way to prevent accidents.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

One of the local sheriffs deputies put a bullet in his thigh about a year ago while holstering his handgun. Thumb strap got caught in the trigger guard. Accidents happen. Not the guns fault.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Except with Glocks the procedure is to pull the trigger before disassembly. I would bet this is where the accident occured.

I'm not defending the officer or accusing the gun. He should have known better.

And you are right: keeping your bugger puller off the bang switch is a sure way to prevent accidents.

Agreed, and as has been hashed out ad nauseum in another thread, the trigger pull necessary for disassembly is retarded.

However, not only did he NOT follow some very basic safety protocols, the department has a barrel they are supposed to dry fire the weapon into, so he failed that too. Looks like the department is well aware of the idiotic trigger pull requirement, but there was no protecting this jerk's fellow officers.

[The Rabbi]

Thereby proving the adage, "Make it idiot proof and someone will invent a bigger idiot."

I think 90% of all "accidents" occur because people aren't paying attention to what they are doing.

[Guest Phantom6]

Actually I'd see it the other way: cops arent all so professional that they dont screw up from time to time so why should they be the only ones trusted with guns.

But since the incident was local here, it wont become grist for the gun debate. Except the one as to whether Glocks are dangerous.

Whether he cleared his pistol correctly or not, he should never have swept the other trooper with his muzzle. The primary rules for safe gun handling all begin with the same word- "Always"- as in "Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction."

That being said, I see it in a bit different light. That is that not only "cops aren't all so professional that they don't screw up from time to time so why should they be the only ones trusted with guns", but most cops don't train regularly with their firearms. A surprisingly high percentage of officers in most any agency can't qualify on the first time out to the range for qualifications once or twice a year. Most agencies will give the officer a week to practice then bring 'em back out to re-shoot but this time without the time restrictions that are designed to build a bit of stress into the exercises which I find absolutely ridiculous because IMHO any time you are required by developing circumstances to draw your firearm the stress level is going through the roof- especially for the avg. patrol officer.

Many of these officers rely on the old "hey, they don't buy my practice ammo or pay me for all the extra time it takes to go to the range" argument when I have questioned them about this. That is pure unadulterated BUL S**T! They are lazy bastards that live with the belief that "it" can't happen to them.

I shoot more than most, but not as much as some people I know. But even folks that dry practice once a week and actually shoot live fire exercises only once a month are better trained with their firearms than 80% of all police officers. On avg. I shoot once a week. That means I clean a firearm of some sort once a week. Doesn't take long- a 1/2 hr to shoot up 50 rounds in some sort of drill and 15 minutes to thoroughly clean my firearm. Including drive time to the range it's an hour out of my life a week and costs me only about $10 (I buy ammo and cleaning supplies in bulk). Over a year's period of time that's about $500 and no one is buying my practice ammo or paying me for my time but you can be damned sure that in my opinion (never mind the opinion of that witch of an x-wife out in San Antonio who after 20 blissfull years of divorce still says I'm worthless, but I digress) my life is worth more than $500 a year.

[Donnie]

Personally, I think all GLOCKS should come with a pair of pants like these

[The Rabbi]

I have met some LEOs who were extremely professional in their gun handling and practiced dilligently. But I more often see the other kind, who treat their sidearm as no different than a set of cuffs or a radio or something. They just aren't interested in guns or learning to shoot them well. Given the statistics I guess it makes a kind of sense. But I wouldnt want to be them when it hits the fan.

[Guest Steelharp]

Except with Glocks the procedure is to pull the trigger before disassembly. I would bet this is where the accident occured.

Bill, having seen the video, no, he wasn't teaching how to disassemble it. He was standing in front of a classroom waving it about declaring he was the only one pro enough, etc. When he pointed it down, bang...

[Guest Hyaloid]

Bill, having seen the video, no, he wasn't teaching how to disassemble it. He was standing in front of a classroom waving it about declaring he was the only one pro enough, etc. When he pointed it down, bang...

that was the original "I am the only one professional enough..."

The poster here was referencing that with the news story linked in the OP about an officer shooting another officer while cleaning his (presumed) GLOCK.

[Guest Steelharp]

As we are fond of saying, a gun is a tool and nothing more. They are all dangerous in the wrong hands, whether a firearm or a pipe wrench. The carelessness/overconfidence/intention of the operator is the problem. The Glock is no more/less dangerous than any other firearm.

Hyaloid, oh, sorry, thanks. No time to look at the individual story, did my usual ass/u/me thing... sorry...

[The Rabbi]

If he had been carrying a revolver like G-d intended, it wouldnt have happened because you dont pull the trigger to clean a revolver.

[Cannon Fodder]

Except with Glocks the procedure is to pull the trigger before disassembly. I would bet this is where the accident occured.

I'm not defending the officer or accusing the gun. He should have known better.

And you are right: keeping your bugger puller off the bang switch is a sure way to prevent accidents.

You also have to with the XD. The difference is that the XD you have to fully retract the slide and lock it open as the first step. Which should be the first step anyway, to make sure the chamber is clear.

[Guest Ghostrider]

The XD also has those two handy little features - round in chamber and cocked indicator. Very nice reminders!

[Cannon Fodder]

The XD also has those two handy little features - round in chamber and cocked indicator. Very nice reminders!

I never really use them, just pull the slide back a little and see if there is a round chambered. But they really don't matter, always, always assume it is loaded until you check.

[GhostDog]

Rabbi, I like the one about the bigger idiot. I'll try to remember that one.

Phantom pretty well summed it up. As an ex-cop/POST certified firearms instructor, I have seen the same thing he refers to. Too many cops just don't see it as an INDIVIDUAL responsibility (firearms skills/safety). If the department doesn't pay for it, they just won't do it. I never understood that mentality since it's not their butts on the line, but the officer's. Oh well...

I don't really get the other argument either. We can all agree that it would be better if you didn't have to dry fire the gun to take it apart but that only explains a possible ND (into a barrel, corner, or other SAFE DIRECTION). Why in the %$#^*& would you point it at SOMEONE to dry fire it, regardless of why you were doing it!? I never understood that one either. Maybe it's just me.

[Marswolf]

Oh dear, yet another ND that obviously has nothing to do with the gun's design....

[Guest dotsun]

The XD also has those two handy little features - round in chamber and cocked indicator. Very nice reminders!

As does my Glock...

[Guest Ghostrider]

I never really use them, just pull the slide back a little and see if there is a round chambered. But they really don't matter, always, always assume it is loaded until you check.

My main weapons I always leave cocked and locked, my others I sometimes don't remember. I like the idea that I don't have to even look at my weapon to know what condition it's in, just feel it and you know.

I really am smart enough to clear a weapon before cleaning, I just like that I can tell in the "dark" (low light, not pitch black) without have to make any noise whatsoever...

As does my Glock...

My 40 sc didn't - one of the reasons I no longer have it, and the fact that I standardized on .45;)

[saintsfanbrian]

Oh dear, yet another ND that obviously has nothing to do with the gun's design....

This ND definitely has to do with the design. I agree that Glock is bad in this respect, but then again, he failed to follow policy and protocol and did not clear his weapon into the barrel before coming in the room.

Here is how I imagine the scenario went.

Police Officer racks the slide to remove the round that is in the chamber.

Police Officer drops the magazine into his hand and places in his ammo pouch.

Knowing that he just cleared the chamber and dropped the mag, the gun isn't loaded anymore so there is no point in wasting 2 seconds of my time to point it in this stupid barrel and pull the trigger. I have somewhere I need to be so I will just go inside and clean it and get on with my life.

P.S. the police around here are using Sig's now. Maybe not the SO but the MPD are.

[GhostDog]

You bring up an interesting point (about being able to look at the pistol and tell it's condition). When I clear a Glock I always dry fire it before putting it away or doing anything else with it. After being dry fired, the Glock trigger stays in the rearward position (next to the frame) and won't move until it's cocked/loaded. One look and you can tell.

I will agree that some other means to take the guns down might be better, but it still doesn't excuse being "a bigger idiot", to quote someone else on the board.