Heads up about the owner of Shooter's Depot in Chattanooga

[Junkstack]

Saw this on another forum. He has gone on the record for spewing unbacked information which would seem to boost his bottom line. The last guy, Rick Uselton, that did that went out of business. Just a heads up about him to watch out for.

 

 

He claims "Gun Shows represent the largest organized illegal gun sales in the U.S." 

 

 

video on the top left

http://www.wdef.com/news/story/Lawmaker-Asks-Attorney-General-Opinion-on-Banning/bFdfxL-kqUKU7M0cNvR7Wg.cspx

Edited December 12, 2015 by Junkstack

[Oh Shoot]

Well, considering that's the logical place to go shopping if you are prohibited from owning firearms, he may well be right. It's certainly where I would if I were a felon and wanted a gun or ten.

 

- OS

[Junkstack]

Well, considering that's the logical place to go shopping if you are prohibited from owning firearms, he may well be right. It's certainly where I would if I were a felon and wanted a gun or ten.

 

- OS

but there are no facts to back up his claim. It's one thing to speculate, it is another to state a fact. He isn't helping our side one bit by giving false narratives. 

[K191145]

Saw this on another forum. He has gone on the record for spewing unbacked information which would seem to boost his bottom line. The last guy, Rick Uselton, that did that went out of business. Just a heads up about him to watch out for.

 

 

He claims "Gun Shows represent the largest organized illegal gun sales in the U.S." 

 

 

video on the top left

http://www.wdef.com/news/story/Lawmaker-Asks-Attorney-General-Opinion-on-Banning/bFdfxL-kqUKU7M0cNvR7Wg.cspx

 

I hope the SOB does go out of business, he would deserve it. He just doesn't like the shows taking business away from him.

[Oh Shoot]

but there are no facts to back up his claim. It's one thing to speculate, it is another to state a fact. He isn't helping our side one bit by giving false narratives. 

 

Yep no proof. But logically, where else can a prohibited person shop with a wider selection and better prices than gun shows in the roughly 3/4 of states which still allow personal transfer? Not to mention a perhaps equal number of folks who are truly engaged in the business of selling firearms without a license. Not to mention folks on both ends of the transactions popping over the state line from their resident states.

 

Perhaps an "inconvenient truth" for us?

 

So you'd have been fine if he had just put a "likely" or "possibly" before the "represent"? ;)

 

- OS

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[R_Bert]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/11/where-criminals-get-their-guns/

 

Mac, you would indeed be the rare bird as usual - in the 1-3% category (we can toss in flea markets too)

 

(criminals are not generally known for intelligence & logic - otherwise they would not be polled by prison officials as often as they are)

Edited December 12, 2015 by R_Bert

[Oh Shoot]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/11/where-criminals-get-their-guns/

 

Mac, you would indeed be the rare bird as usual - in the 1-3% category (we can toss in flea markets too)

 

Well, that seems like pretty good data, and I did indeed find the gummit study report too:

 

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

 

'Course, data is going on 20 years old now, and we don't know a breakdown of where all these "family members and friends and street people and illegal sources" get all those guns from.

 

But I'llI retract my contention for lack of any more current data -- even though an anti would maintain, if you can stop even .7% and all like that ... ;)

 

- OS

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[R_Bert]

Oh Shoot, on 11 Dec 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Well, that seems like pretty good data, and I did indeed find the gummit study report too:

 

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

 

'Course, data is going on 20 years old now, of course we don't know where all these "family members and friends" get all those guns from.

 

But I admit, that does seem rather conclusive. even though an anti would maintain, if you can stop that .7% and all like that ...

 

- OS

I figured you would find that report.

 

and you are right about the anti's.

 

I would think, though, that if a family member got a gun at a show, that's still legal (most of the time).  It is the subsequent criminal use or criminal possession that is illegal.

 

I also have to wonder if "get them from family or friends" does not include many cases of outright theft.  I know of several situations like this, where "granny's" gun went missing, etc.

[Oh Shoot]

I figured you would find that report.

 

and you are right about the anti's.

 

I would think, though, that if a family member got a gun at a show, that's still legal (most of the time).  It is the subsequent criminal use or criminal possession that is illegal.

 

I also have to wonder if "get them from family or friends" does not include many cases of outright theft.  I know of several situations like this, where "granny's" gun went missing, etc.

 

You should know you need to wait an extra few minutes for me to edit. :)

 

I threw in the "street sales" and "illegal sources" too, whatever those terms actually mean, as they really aren't descriptive for the vast majority of states. I can only assume those folks paid a much higher price than necessary. :)  But those guns all come from somewhere and I doubt enough firearms are stolen to feed the demand in these underground markets nationwide.

 

The sampling actually did seem fair enough though I guess.

 

But anyway, I guess just because I would go to a gunshow to score if I were a prohibited person doesn't mean your average felon is as bright. Or at least the ones that get caught anyway.  ;)

 

- OS

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Randall53]

I've been in the place twice when they first opened. Once to look at a pistol and once to join up for a year of range use. I walked both times without buying for various reasons. Pompous attitude was one.

[GlockSpock]

I took my HCP class there. The guy that taught the class was range officer for CPD if I recall correctly. He was great.

The owner of the shop seemed annoying. Was looking at holsters and he tried to convince me that whatever brand (Tigua, something like that) of holsters was just as good as those overpriced made in America "High Noon Holsters" that I mentioned to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TripleDigitRide]

With sites like Armslist, GOC, and the zillion Facebook groups that have been created for the purpose of buying and selling firearms, I can't help but think that a gun show would be one of the last places a felon would go for purchasing a firearm.

In the end, all of the above mentioned sources will fall under any possible "gun show loophole" legislation. Edited December 12, 2015 by TripleDigitRide

[JohnC]

Well, that seems like pretty good data, and I did indeed find the gummit study report too:
 
http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf
 
'Course, data is going on 20 years old now, and we don't know a breakdown of where all these "family members and friends and street people and illegal sources" get all those guns from.
 
But I'llI retract my contention for lack of any more current data -- even though an anti would maintain, if you can stop even .7% and all like that ... ;)
 
- OS

Is there not a more current report on that?  :shrug: 

If we observe FBI crime statistics, gun related homicides are on the downward trend, so I'd expect these numbers by prisoners to also be smaller today than from 1991-1997 that the report shows. 

And what we need to take note of is how small the percentage was for this statistic: "Less than 2% of inmates reported carrying a fully automatic or military-style semiautomatic firearm." 

 

Now add the FBI statistics on "homicides by all rifles combined" and ask ourselves why they're working so hard to ban a class of firearms that are one of the least used weapons by criminals.

 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

Edited December 12, 2015 by JohnC

[Oh Shoot]

....

And what we need to take note of is how small the percentage was for this statistic: "Less than 2% of inmates reported carrying a fully automatic or military-style semiautomatic firearm." 

 

...

 

AWB had been in effect for 3 years when survey done, and even before it there wasn't near the proliferation of AR/AK stuff around.The AR hadn't really become "America's gun" in a real sense yet to civilians.

 

But the main reason is that most crimes have always been committed with handguns, for obvious reasons.

 

- OS

Edited December 12, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

A lot of brick and mortar gun stores don't like gun shows in general because they take business away from them.

[suspiciousmind]

I would say that more illegal gun transactions occur on Facebook, especially with the eager beavers paying brand new prices for well used Glocks.

[bersaguy]

Several years back while I was still working at a Gulf Station there was a guy came in to peddle a few firearms to be able to purchase gas to continue his trip from Memphis to Chicago. My boss asked him what he had and when the guy opened his trunk I am guessing there was at least 100+ hand guns of all makes and models. I looked at my boss and he said there was nothing in there he could use and I said that also but I added that I had a few buddies that had mentioned they were looking to buy a few hand guns. I told him if he could come back in a hour they would be here. I cannot believe the guy was stupid enough to come back but he did. There was some sweet guns but we both knew better than to buy any. I got the plate number of the Lincoln Town car he was driving and relayed it to a couple friends of mine on Metro Vice. They had been looking for this guy for almost a month. He was not going to Chicago. He was peddling his wears right here in Nashville.

 

George McNeal and Dale Street showed up and were there when the guy came back. He opened the trunk and was cuffed almost before it go open all the way. I spoke with Dale about a week later and every gun this guy was selling was stolen in Memphis, Mississippi, or Arkansas. There is not any doubt in my mind that there are probably 1000's more guys just like him out there selling stolen guns and that is where most of the bad guys get their guns, not gun show parking lots................jmho

[Jonnin]

This is just asshattery at its finest.   I am absolutely sure a few of the guns at gun shows are stolen and that a few crooks buy them there.   But, lets not be color blind here either.   At a typical gun show, there might be 0.00001% of the people buying that are not, well, white.    If we gave it a naïve 30/30/30 % of typical gun using criminals being white/black/Hispanic/other,  then using that boring and even distribution,  2/3 of the "bad guys" aren't getting they guns at the gun shows.    Now lets factor in the places that don't have gun shows or don't allow the individual trades in the parking lot ...  you know, those be place with gigantic populations, like CA, NY, ...  you know the ones right?    So now a majority of the bad gun guys in terms of sheer population nationally and in terms of racial distribution are not even present at these locations.    By simple common sense, the common hoodlums that plague our major cities are not buying them at shows.  

[Currently]

I've been averaging buying a gun a year from these guys.

Last time I was there, all I got was arrogance and condescension from the gunsmith and the ex-cop that's involved with business somehow. This is after I spent $1300 on a rifle and had my pistol tuned by the so-called gunsmith god.

I typically like supporting LGS, especially when they have a range.
I'm pretty much over going there, last thing I need is to be insulted and denigrated by a couple of has-beens who believe they know it all. :(

There are plenty of other places close by with better prices and service. Edited December 13, 2015 by Currently

[JohnC]

AWB had been in effect for 3 years when survey done, and even before it there wasn't near the proliferation of AR/AK stuff around.The AR hadn't really become "America's gun" in a real sense yet to civilians.
 
But the main reason is that most crimes have always been committed with handguns, for obvious reasons.
 
- OS

Right. Didn't meant to get on the AW's. I just wanted to quickly make that point and move on.

But my main point is, gun homicides are decreasing each year, so I expect the percentages in your statistics to reflect that. But we need a more recent report from say, 2010-2014 to see where we are now. The one you posted is from 1991-1997 and that doesn't accurately reflect where we are now I'd assume.

[Oh Shoot]

Right. Didn't meant to get on the AW's. I just wanted to quickly make that point and move on.

But my main point is, gun homicides are decreasing each year, so I expect the percentages in your statistics to reflect that. But we need a more recent report from say, 2010-2014 to see where we are now. The one you posted is from 1991-1997 and that doesn't accurately reflect where we are now I'd assume.

 

I also mentioned that the latest data is almost 20 years old, and wondered about applicability today.

 

Also, even then, I didn't see any data about length of time the respondents had been already served when interviewed, so  x number of cons they surveyed might have been already 10 years or more in stir, so dunno how contemporary that info was even then.

 

- OS

Edited December 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

I wouldn’t go to a gun show if I was a felon wanting to buy a gun; too many cops around. I would just find them locally on the various websites and Facebook. This isn’t about gun shows; it’s about banning private sales.

The only reason the government doesn’t enforce existing gun laws is because they don’t have enough agents.

What laws does John Martin think are being violated at gun shows?

[Oh Shoot]

I wouldn’t go to a gun show if I was a felon wanting to buy a gun; too many cops around. I would just find them locally on the various websites and Facebook. This isn’t about gun shows; it’s about banning private sales.

Of course it is. Half of them don't understand that and the other half simply won't admit it, even after Manchin-Toomey (which was too lax for most liberals though)
 
 

What laws does John Martin think are being violated at gun shows?

There really are only a few things that are illegal:

- Prohibited persons buying guns
- Folks selling guns without a license who indeed really are in the business of doing it
- Folks from other states buying or selling guns

- Folks knowingly selling guns to prohibited persons/residents of another state/minors

- Folks knowingly selling and/or receiving stolen firearms

That's really about it, isn't it, except for NFA stuff which would have to be uber rare if it happens anywhere at all around gun shows.

- OS
 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Clod Stomper]

As mentioned, I doubt felons would peruse gun shows too much. Too many cops. And even the dumbest criminals know that it's a felony for them to touch a gun. And there is always the chance that they would be recognized. It can happen.

A number of years ago, a friend and I were walking around a show in Knoxville. My friend recognized someone who he knew to be a felon. He quietly told someone (show organizer or sheriffs deputy, can't remember).

Don't know how it turned out for the guy. We didn't see a dramatic take-down. Just don't know.

But that danger is always there for prohibited persons.