Nashville Mayor wasting no time...

[Worriedman]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson%20/2015/12/01/metro-halts-gun-shows-nashville-fairgrounds/76609946/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

[Randall53]

3 criminal purchases in 30 years is a problem? How asinine. 

[Grand Torino]

I'm shocked. Nashville wanted a liberal mayor and they got one. Give it a few years and it will be known as San Frannasville. It wasn't that many years ago Nashville was a pretty nice place.

[kieefer]

A private business needs to step up to the plate and welcome RK and Bill Goodman to their establishment. Then both need to exploit how many small businesses are represented by these shows and how many are employed.

 

While they are at it they need to mention the law about knowingly selling to a ex-con - criminal.

 

Meanwhile look for another tax to "solve" this so-called gun show loophole.

[btq96r]

I know this idea will be a non-starter for the group here, but there is a fix for this that can keep the gun shows, and take away the liberal talking point of a "loophole" being present. 

 

TBI checks are $10.  Whoever is responsible for putting on the gun show has to have an FFL, and say five computers to run checks on people who want to purchase a firearm at the show where they can charge the $10 there, or more if they want to recoup costs.  See a gun you like, agree to buy it, then go to a counter near the front, get your check, and have a confirmation number that can be put on block 21b of the 4473, and that gun, and any others you buy at the show can be on the same 4473. 

 

Not saying I'd advocate it or want it mandated, but I'm a big fan of taking an opponents gripe and proposing a solution they can't talk around.

[SupaRice]

I don't attend these shows any longer, even though I live only a few miles away due to all the ass-baggery and crazy unsafe shit I've seen people do there.... but this is BS.

How can we help to organize against this stupid crap?

30 years of gun shows, no real problems at all from them ever. Private sales are not their jurisdiction...

[kieefer]

I don't attend these shows any longer, even though I live only a few miles away due to all the ass-baggery and crazy unsafe #### I've seen people do there.... but this is BS.

How can we help to organize against this stupid crap?

30 years of gun shows, no real problems at all from them ever. Private sales are not their jurisdiction...

Exactly.

 

This effort should be put towards drug sells and welfare fraud.

Edited December 1, 2015 by kieefer

[Oh Shoot]

I know this idea will be a non-starter for the group here, but there is a fix for this that can keep the gun shows, and take away the liberal talking point of a "loophole" being present. 

 

TBI checks are $10.  Whoever is responsible for putting on the gun show has to have an FFL, and say five computers to run checks on people who want to purchase a firearm at the show where they can charge the $10 there, or more if they want to recoup costs.  See a gun you like, agree to buy it, then go to a counter near the front, get your check, and have a confirmation number that can be put on block 21b of the 4473, and that gun, and any others you buy at the show can be on the same 4473. 

 

Not saying I'd advocate it or want it mandated, but I'm a big fan of taking an opponents gripe and proposing a solution they can't talk around.

 

Doubt it could fly under TN firearm preemption law, as long as the city/county is requiring that. It's one thing to simply nuke a venue, quite another to mandate conditions that deny a legal form of firearm transfer as per both state and federal law.

 

Also as a side note, though it's true that any number of firearms may be on a single 4473, it's my understanding that each form can only involve one transferer and one transferee.

 

- OS

Edited December 1, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

Doubt it could fly under TN firearm preemption law, as long as the city/county is requiring that. It's one thing to simply nuke a venue, quite another to mandate conditions that deny a legal form of firearm transfer as per both state and federal law.

 

Also as a side note, though it's true that any number of firearms may be on a single 4473, it's my understanding that each form can only involve one transferer and one transferee.

 

- OS

 

Yeah, it's more a rough idea than anything.

 

Do you think a single TICS background check transaction/confirmation code could be used on multiple 4473 forms if the person makes multiple purchases at the show?

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, it's more a rough idea than anything.

 

Do you think a single TICS background check transaction/confirmation code could be used on multiple 4473 forms if the person makes multiple purchases at the show?

 

Pretty certain that's a no. Each 4473 is processed as an individual entity with individual confirmation. And in TN, an individual ten clams.

 

- OS

Edited December 1, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[WindHawk]

Sounds like a red herring to me.  As one "famous" commentator often says "Follow the money..."  That's what this is all about.  Metro government (and the real-estate developers) want the $$$ that redevelopment of the fairgrounds will provide.  Charging a substantial parking fee didn't discourage people.  Allowing income producing activities to operate there isn't supporting this plan either.  Plus they have financed expensive convention facilities that need paying activities to meet the bills.

 

If you don't like what Nashville is becoming spending your money outside "Metropolitan Nashville/Davidson County" is the most powerful protest you can make.  I recall very well when Nashville had a total hold on retail.  Remember when Church Street was the place?  Then the malls, several of which are about ghost towns today or have been converted to office/medical facilities.

 

With the development of retail/restaurants/etc. in the surrounding counties Metro Nashville is no longer the 8,000 pound gorilla that they still see themselves to be. 

[kieefer]

Suck on this Mayor;

 

More Americans had their backgrounds checked purchasing guns on Black Friday than any day in the on record, according to data released by the FBI this week.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System processed 185,345 requests on November 27, one of the largest retail sales days in the country.

 

"This was an approximate 5% increase over the 175,754 received on Black Friday 2014," wrote Stephen Fischer, the FBI's chief of multimedia productions. "The previous high for receipts were the 177,170 received on 12/21/2012."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/12/01/black-friday-breaks-record-185k-gun-background-checks/76624604/

[Fourtyfive]

Like I said in the other thread , she didn't get my vote ....

[K191145]

Well there's another way to protest Nashville's liberal transformation, which it's been that way for a while now.  IF, enough permit holders would do it, start carrying open everywhere you can in Nashville. I've had my reasons for not carrying open for a long time but i'm seriously considering it. And i'll be honest about it, it's called "SPITE". If I carry open it will be mainly because these sanctimonious control freak liberals hate it, it will be an "in their face, screw them" reason because after years and years of hearing their bigotry and self-rightous intolerance of any idea they disapprove of, i'm really really really really really REALLY sick of them, not getting sick of them but already sick of them.

SPITE IS RIGHT. Open carry because liberals hate it.   :devil:

[m16ty]

A private business needs to step up to the plate and welcome RK and Bill Goodman to their establishment. Then both need to exploit how many small businesses are represented by these shows and how many are employed.
 
While they are at it they need to mention the law about knowingly selling to a ex-con - criminal.
 
Meanwhile look for another tax to "solve" this so-called gun show loophole.

If Bill Goodman doesn't mind coming to Dickson, I've got a 60,000 sq ft warehouse that I would love to put him in. If anybody knows how to contact them, I'd be interested.

I've actually thought of doing a gun show myself but don't even know where to get started.

[Monkeyman2500]

Sounds like a red herring to me. As one "famous" commentator often says "Follow the money..." That's what this is all about. Metro government (and the real-estate developers) want the $$$ that redevelopment of the fairgrounds will provide. Charging a substantial parking fee didn't discourage people. Allowing income producing activities to operate there isn't supporting this plan either. Plus they have financed expensive convention facilities that need paying activities to meet the bills.

If you don't like what Nashville is becoming spending your money outside "Metropolitan Nashville/Davidson County" is the most powerful protest you can make. I recall very well when Nashville had a total hold on retail. Remember when Church Street was the place? Then the malls, several of which are about ghost towns today or have been converted to office/medical facilities.

With the development of retail/restaurants/etc. in the surrounding counties Metro Nashville is no longer the 8,000 pound gorilla that they still see themselves to be.

This is 100% correct I believe. Getting rid of gun sales is just a plus for them. Land development areas are becoming scarce around downtown and that fair grounds is a gold mine. They have known this for years and keep trying to get rid of it. I'm betting they are very close to accomplishing this and have developers lined up ready to spend the big bucks.

[K191145]

If Bill Goodman doesn't mind coming to Dickson, I've got a 60,000 sq ft warehouse that I would love to put him in. If anybody knows how to contact them, I'd be interested.

I've actually thought of doing a gun show myself but don't even know where to get started.

 

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if it was held somewhere else, probably have better attendance. I would rather go to Dickson, probably go to more shows there. I don't really go to Nashville much anymore unless it's a necessity.  

[K191145]

This is 100% correct I believe. Getting rid of gun sales is just a plus for them. Land development areas are becoming scarce around downtown and that fair grounds is a gold mine. They have known this for years and keep trying to get rid of it. I'm betting they are very close to accomplishing this and have developers lined up ready to spend the big bucks.

 

A bunch more high rise/high dollar apartments and condos. I've always wondered just who the hell are these people moving to Nashville and where are they coming from?

[Chucktshoes]

Yeah, it's more a rough idea than anything.

Do you think a single TICS background check transaction/confirmation code could be used on multiple 4473 forms if the person makes multiple purchases at the show?

Pretty certain that's a no. Each 4473 is processed as an individual entity with individual confirmation. And in TN, an individual ten clams.

- OS

Having run quite a few 4473s, I can say that OS is on the money (as usual) with the legalities here. Edited December 2, 2015 by Chucktshoes

[JohnC]

So let me get this right...

Three law breaking felons buy guns they know they can't legally posses which is another feloney charge for them and the Anti-Second Amendment activists on the Metro Board of "Fair Commissioners" voted to halt Bill Goodmans gun show as a result?

How does it even make sense when Goodman was following the law and all gun dealers (FFL's) do background checks there?

This was 3 felons illegally buying guns via private party sale (not through licensed gun dealers aka FFL's), such as if I, a non-FFL, decide to sale my gun privately which is perfectly legal, to another person?

It is the felon who was dishonest and broke the law, not the gun show, so the felon should be punished (prohibited person [felon] possessing a firearm) to the maximum the law allows, and be done with it.

How about enforcing the law instead of trying to punish legal law abiding businesses and citizens?

The law:

 

I. POSSESSION OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A PROHIBITED PERSON:

18 USC § 922(g) & (n). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. May receive minimum sentence of 15 years without parole if offender has three or more prior convictions for a felony crime of violence (e.g. burglary, robbery, assault, possession of offensive weapons) and/or drug trafficking felony.

Elements

A. Possession or receipt of a firearm or ammunition;

 

B. By a subject who falls within one of the following categories:

Felon - (Additionally, persons awaiting trial on felony charges are prohibited from receiving firearms.);

Drug user or addict - (Often shown where paraphernalia seized, subject tests positive for drugs and/or subject claims drugs were possessed for personal use.);

Alien - (Includes illegal aliens and aliens lawfully admitted under non-immigrant visas, i.e., those aliens not admitted for permanent residence. This provision does not prohibit aliens who lawfully possess a so-called “green card” from possessing guns or ammunition.);

Is subject to a domestic restraining order - (The order must prohibit contact with an intimate partner, or child of the subject, and must have been issued only after a hearing of which the subject was notified and at which the subject had an opportunity to participate. The order must also find the subject poses a threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child or must prohibit the use, threatened use or attempted use of physical force.);
Has a prior conviction for domestic assault - (Includes a prior conviction for any assault or threatened use of a deadly weapon against a present or former spouse or partner or child or guardian of any such person. The subject must have been entitled to a jury trial and been represented by counsel in the prior proceeding or be shown to have waived those rights.);
Fugitive from justice - (Fled any state to avoid being prosecuted or to avoid testifying in any criminal proceeding.); or
Dishonorably discharged from the military; AND

C. The firearm or ammunition was transported across a state line at any time.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf

Edited December 2, 2015 by JohnC

[hipower]

It's that liberal logic. If one is guilty...all are guilty. So if 3 felonies are found out of 30 years...Hang'em all dammit!

 

No amount of talk will change that, JohnC. If only it would.

[Pete123]

The claim that three firearms from the show were used in crimes sounded fishy to me.  I looked into it and have come to some conclusions based on the article in the paper.

 

Here is what is in the paper:

 

But Davidson County Assistant District Attorney Jenny Charles, among the gun control advocates who spoke before the board Tuesday, raised doubts over Goodman’s claims of mandatory background checks by providing details of three criminal cases in Nashville that she said involved people who purchased firearms at gun shows at the fairgrounds.

 

• One example she cited is a federal case involving defendant Mohammed Metleg, who evidence indicates purchased a Smith & Wesson .40-caliber firearm at the Nashville fairgrounds in October 2011. That gun and other guns possessed by Metleg later surfaced during an illegal smuggling ring that sent guns to Australia. Australian authorities believe the guns were used in gang activity in that country.
• Another case, one prosecuted by Charles, involves defendant Desmond Hosten, a multiple-convicted felon who Charles said was not legally permitted to possess a gun. Charles said ammunition was found in his car this year during an arrest for a drug charge. Hosten acknowledged to possessing a gun, she said. Later, in an interview with detectives, Hosten said he purchased an AR-15 firearm at a gun show. That gun show was later determined to be held at the fairgrounds. 
• A third case, she said, came in April when officers responded to a narcotics and weapons complaint at the residence of Parrish Wilson, a convicted felon. Police found multiple guns, including a Rock River Arms AR-15 and a Winchester .30 rifle, inside his home. According to court documents, the individual told authorities he was a gun collector and purchased the guns at the Nashville fairgrounds. 

So, she is saying that he hasn't been doing background checks because there are no records tying the guns in question to sales at the fairgrounds.  The first example doesn't explain the 'evidence' tying the gun to the fairgrounds.

 

The next two examples show where the gun control folks are taking the word from criminals over the word of a legitimate business man.  If I was a crook caught with guns, which I may well have stolen, I would offer an explanation like this to stay out of trouble.  

 

 

Byrd said he would love to sit down and try and develop new provisions that work.

"But we have been lied to consistently about how these gun shows operate," he said.

 

What lies have they been told?  Is he saying that the gun show folks are lying because criminals said they were?

[Omega]

I would think that would be easy to prove one way or another.  The chain of custody from manufacturer to distributer to FFL can be traced, if the FFL (at the gun show) can't show where these weapons were purchased legally, then there is a problem.  But in all three cases, if a background check WAS conducted, then the issue is with the TBI not the gun show and FFLs.  Once someone legally purchases a gun, what they do with it is their issue and their issue alone, not the gun shop.  Its like holding my Toyota dealership liable for selling me a truck which I then get drunk and run someone over with.

[300winmag]

This is so petty and similar to how some school teachers will punish a whole class room because the teacher does not want to discipline one trouble maker.

 

Whether a few people like it or not in Nashville, private sales of firearms are perfectly legal in this state.  They cannot keep non criminal people from swapping guns in a gun show or in the parking lot of the show. 

 

I wonder if the gun show operator had a contract with Nashville for using that facility for a period of time and Nashville broke the contract?  I do think another facility will lease space to the gun show operator.

[Trekbike]

As it has been said in the other threads, all of this is going on to get closer to the ultimate goal of closing down the fairgrounds for redevelopment.

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