Thinking about moving from .40 to 9mm ...

[Patton]

-I dry fire a lot (I know..., it's a problem), and I am very wary of .40 cases and setback/OAL after being chambered, so....

While 357 Sig may be the worst to experience bullet setback, I don't think 9mm is any less prone to bullet setback with its tapered design than the 40. The reason for 40 shooters to be concerned is because when it does you may see a larger spike in pressure, but worthwhile 9mm defense ammo I operating at the same pressure in that case. It's not likely that you are carrying lighter target practice loads. You should never rechamber say more than twice or have a dedicated dry fire practice gun.

[Peace]

While 357 Sig may be the worst to experience bullet setback, I don't think 9mm is any less prone to bullet setback with its tapered design than the 40. The reason for 40 shooters to be concerned is because when it does you may see a larger spike in pressure, but worthwhile 9mm defense ammo I operating at the same pressure in that case. It's not likely that you are carrying lighter target practice loads. You should never rechamber say more than twice or have a dedicated dry fire practice gun.

... You nailed it. There lies my problem. Regardless of the caliber, to start with, I need one more G23! ... Hmmmm... How to inform the wife.... ?

[ironsniper1]

... You nailed it. There lies my problem. Regardless of the caliber, to start with, I need one more G23! ... Hmmmm... How to inform the wife.... ?

buy it then go to your nearest jewelry retailer and buy something for her it's a win win!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

... You nailed it. There lies my problem. Regardless of the caliber, to start with, I need one more G23! ... Hmmmm... How to inform the wife.... ?

How about telling her you need it because should your lives ever be in danger it's an excellent method of self defense? Does she not enjoy shooting? These kind of post always perplex me when I read them. Heck. In our house, I'm the one who has to be physically stopped from buying the guns.

I'm 99% convinced I'm just not a "normal" woman.

[miller_man]

... You nailed it. There lies my problem. Regardless of the caliber, to start with, I need one more G23! ... Hmmmm... How to inform the wife.... ?

Buying another G19 just for dry fire was one of the best thing's I ever did. It's also my usual gun for IDPA/USPSA and such, but 90% of the time its used for dry practice (almost nightly) - no more loading/unloading my carry gun all the time - not cheap, but well, well worth it  :up:. 

 

As for switching from 40 to 9, I made the switch about 2 years ago. Everything seemed better/easier with the 9, not to mention cheaper. I've never looked back, but do have a few 40 cal's in the stable that aren't going anywhere.

Edited November 22, 2015 by miller_man

[GlockSpock]

http://www.glockforum.com/Should-You-Dry-Fire-a-Glock.html

I just don't know if I even slightly believe this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveTN]

-for those asking, here are the reason I think about switching:
 
- so that my wife will be more comfortable with everything in the safe.
  
I shoot .40 well, and I have no problem with follow-up shots.  It is probably a bit snappy for my wife.  She can shoot lights-out given time, but she does not enjoy the sharp recoil of the .40

9mm is a proven round; the military and many Police Departments use it. But it has never been a “better” round than the .40 without a qualifier.
Your qualifier seems to be your wife wants it. “Girly Round”.... that’s as good as reason as any.
 

Shot placement, CNS hits, blood loss. Nothing more or less.....
.02 of an inch won't make any real difference.

I guess if you don’t think 45% increase in mass and 27% increase in surface area (before expansion) will make a difference; go for it.
Absolutely shot placement is the key. Have you been able to do it in real life? But shot placement doesn’t really have anything to do with caliber choice; physics does.

[DaveTN]

http://www.glockforum.com/Should-You-Dry-Fire-a-Glock.html

I just don't know if I even slightly believe this.

It’s always been true; that has never changed. What has changed is manufacturers saying it’s okay, and Gunsmith’s who have no experience with it or any background in machining and metallurgy putting their comments on the net with zero experience.

I talked with an old time gunsmith for one of the largest manufactures in this country. He told me he hated it, but their company policy was changed to answer that question with “Yes its okay, if you damage your gun dry firing it we will fix it for free.” He said that came from another manufacturer saying it was okay when they knew it’s not.

The bottom line is that it can be explained; but it won’t do any good if someone wants to do it and is looking for someone to tell them its okay.

Will it hurt your weapon to dry fire it occasionally, like testing the trigger pull or release? No. Will it damage it to do it hundreds or thousands of times in practice? Possibly, as possibly it will fail when you need it the most.

Is it rare? Sure because most people take better care of their weapons than to do that.

[GlockSpock]

It’s always been true; that has never changed. What has changed is manufacturers saying it’s okay, and Gunsmith’s who have no experience with it or any background in machining and metallurgy putting their comments on the net with zero experience.

I talked with an old time gunsmith for one of the largest manufactures in this country. He told me he hated it, but their company policy was changed to answer that question with “Yes its okay, if you damage your gun dry firing it we will fix it for free.” He said that came from another manufacturer saying it was okay when they knew it’s not.

The bottom line is that it can be explained; but it won’t do any good if someone wants to do it and is looking for someone to tell them its okay.

Will it hurt your weapon to dry fire it occasionally, like testing the trigger pull or release? No. Will it damage it to do it hundreds or thousands of times in practice? Possibly, as possibly it will fail when you need it the most.

Is it rare? Sure because most people take better care of their weapons than to do that.

I really have never much looked into it, but I always sorta assumed that the problem on dry firing some firearms was the damage it would cause to the firing pin, not any part of the slide or breech, with .22lr being the exception here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FTE]

Absolutely shot placement is the key. Have you been able to do it in real life? But shot placement doesn’t really have anything to do with caliber choice; physics does.

Yes....with a 9mm.....

Mass?.....matters in shooting steel.

Surface area? Only matters on the leading edge.

Neither 9 or 40 is markedly better in actual critical performance (and "surface area" isn't that). When comparing the two, David's list is the reason that most private trainers, and now the FBI are all transitioning back to 9

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited November 22, 2015 by FTE

[nightrunner]

My thoughts on it are this,

I dislike the .40 simply because of what it is and what it came from, it is a neutered 10mm. It just bothers me.

I can honestly say that I know when it hits the fan in a high stress situation, my shot placement won't be near as good as it is on a square range. And for that reason, I have decided to carry a .45 as a primary with a couple spare mags and a .357 snub as a BUG. I shoot a .45 pretty good. In fact, better than any .40 I have tried. I prefer the extra power of the .45.

[Omega]

I personally carry the .40, I don't rightly care where it came from or why they developed it.  I have seen what a 9mm, .40 and .45 can do, and I know what I can do with all three.  The G23 is a good, reliable, compact gun that I can engage targets with, carry comfortably, and it carries more than my 1911s.  I have no "favorite", I will carry what I feel the situation dictates, so many times the G23 stays in the truck and my xdm gets carried. If I come across another gun that can fill a niche at a good price, I'll get it, but since I have nothing to compensate for, it will probably be a .380 or 9mm.  

 

I now of no one that will stand in front of even a .22; most crooks probably will be unconcerned in what caliber they are being confronted with.  So my feeling is that what ever caliber/gun combination you can consistently hit your target with is what you need to carry.  Now, SHTF is different than SD, and for that as I have mentioned elsewhere, I'll probably stick to 9mm and 5.56.

[Patton]

Yes....with a 9mm.....
Mass?.....matters in shooting steel.
Surface area? Only matters on the leading edge.
Neither 9 or 40 is markedly better in actual critical performance (and "surface area" isn't that). When comparing the two, David's list is the reason that most private trainers, and now the FBI are all transitioning back to 9
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You will catch me with a 9 or the slightly less potent 38spl very often. But mass does matter because it equates into energy and energy is what makes rifle and shotgun rounds more effective. You do not have to dig very hard to find accounts of respectable 9mm ammunition failing to deliver effective neutralization. NYPD and most recently the GSP have had head shots that resulted in the unbelievable, a failure to incapitate and even suffering non life threatening injuries. I have ever heard the Chattanooga shooter received some well placed hits from a 9mm that failed to take him down and hopefully sometime we will get a report. The 40S&W has some of the same stories though ; one when THP shot someone in the face which resulted in moving to 357Sig. Edited November 23, 2015 by Patton

[TGO David]

NYPD and most recently the GSP have had head shots that resulted in the unbelievable, a failure to incapitate and even suffering non life threatening injuries. I have ever heard the Chattanooga shooter received some well placed hits from a 9mm that failed to take him down and hopefully sometime we will get a report. The 40S&W has some of the same stories though ; one when THP shot someone in the face which resulted in moving to 357Sig.

 

Head shots are such a tricky thing, though.  If you don't manage to sink rounds into the ocular triangle (between the eyes and bridge of the hose) the odds of putting their lights out are increasingly slim.  Being LEO yourself I'm sure you know and would agree that's why civilian/LE trainers push so heavily to aim for center of mass.  There's a lot more blood-bearing organs in the thorax than there are in the head.

 

If I am guiding someone through drills at the range, we go for multiple shots to center of body, delivered as quickly as possible while maintaining tight accuracy.  Non-standard response of at least three rounds rapidly.  Punch as many holes in them as you can.

[JayC]

I switch to 9mm more than 10 years ago, for the exact same reason, my wife was more comfortable with 9mm than 45 or 40.  I'm happy with the change, only have to stock a single type of pistol ammo, and all the magazines are compatible with each other in my case...

[Patton]

Yeah, you pretty much only take head shots when center mass shots are the ineffective. The presence of body armor clad turds has risen drastically over the last ten years. Shots to the pelvic area are also effective when center mass shots are ineffective.

[Erik88]

I sold my Glock 23 which was my last pistol in .40S&W. I don't miss it.

 

I love my gen4 17 and my two 19's. If I want to shoot something bigger my gen4 21 is a hoss.

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

I dislike the .40 simply because of what it is and what it came from, it is a neutered 10mm. It just bothers me.

I love this. So much. If I could could give you a high five or a donut, man, I so would!

[CommsNBombs]

There are a lot of smart people here that lowered their chance of catching ebola with a .40 and getting something smart...this makes me proud [emoji23]

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk Edited November 23, 2015 by CommsNBombs

[TGO David]

Yeah, you pretty much only take head shots when center mass shots are the ineffective. The presence of body armor clad turds has risen drastically over the last ten years. Shots to the pelvic area are also effective when center mass shots are ineffective.

 

Agreed.  Plus, if you get to shoot someone in the dick I think you have pretty much unlocked an achievement.  Terrorists, home invaders and other body-armor turds need to consider that before engaging in shenanigans.

 

Might I get shot in the dick for this?

 

If the answer is "YES" then go back and re-think your strategy.

[Peace]

^^  :bowrofl:

 

I can see the risk assesment matrix now....

[nightrunner]

Agreed. Plus, if you get to shoot someone in the dick I think you have pretty much unlocked an achievement. Terrorists, home invaders and other body-armor turds need to consider that before engaging in shenanigans.

Might I get shot in the dick for this?

If the answer is "YES" then go back and re-think your strategy.

A few thoughts on the pelvic shots,

There are a whole lot blood veins and arteries running in that area, a shot there will likely cause them to bleed out quickly.

There is, of course, as mentioned before, the psychological effect of getting shot in the dick.

If you are shooting a heavy enough caliber(not debating whether or not 9mm is heavy enough, it may be), a shot to the pelvis that hits the pelvis bone, will shatter it. That is what holds up your entire body. You will go down and you will never get up. Ever. You may live, but with all of our modern medicine, you will never walk again. You will never stand, sit or lay without being in excruciating pain again.

I think we can agree that a pelvic shot probably would be looked down upon in court, but it would be pretty easy to say you pulled the shot anticipating recoil and shot low. Mistakes happen :)

[suspiciousmind]

Maybe it's because I was raised by a woman that is basically just like Sarah Connor from Terminator, but I've never understood why women claim to have a hard time with certain calibers or why the gun community continues to reinforce the idea that women are incapable of shooting anything larger than a 380 or 9.

I just took my girlfriend to the range a few weeks ago.. 5'1"" petite build.. And she was shooting .308, 12 gauge slugs, 45 ACP, 357 magnum, and .40 like a boss. The only time she complains is when she shoots certain revolvers because of an old hand surgery she had.

If a woman can endure childbirth, then a woman can pony up the strength to shoot any caliber weapon as effectively as any man.

Just my .02 cents.

Also, why switch calibers? Load up on ammo for multiple calibers over time. :)

[tnhawk]

......Also, why switch calibers? Load up on ammo for multiple calibers over time. :)

Several of my last purchases have been 9mm but I have no plans to give up any of my other calibers.  I still remember when I couldn't find a box of 9mm a few years ago.

[Peace]

... to be clear, my wife was a scholarshipped D1 Volleyball player.  She CAN shoot .40  .... she just doesn't like it.   I don't have the same issue, but I certainly respect her in it.