Terror attack in France

[KKing]

So why weren't these targets hit before the attacks in Paris? I'm sure they just didn't pop-up today. Maybe a little "collateral damage" is what is needed. I think it's about time to turn loose the Dogs of War and start carpet bombing these bastards. If that doesn't turn these people against these so called religious fanatics then maybe we need to kill them all anyway. :2cents:

Exactly. You can't tell me the whereabouts of those spots were found in 48 hours


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[bersaguy]

The United States gets hit on 9/11 and it takes us almost 6 months to retaliate and strike back. France gets hit and France strikes back in 48 hours. Whats wrong with this picture? Every time we make a decision to attack an enemy it takes us 6 months of planning and announcing we are coming to let the enemy make all the plans they need to get ready for it? Did the Japanese announce  6 months in advance of Pearl Harbor, Did Bin Laden announce he planned to fly planes into the towers and Pentagon 6 months in advance? I have always thought that it would be most effective if the enemy knew they were going to be attacked after the first bombs began exploding on all of the top targets and then we say    Surprise, We're here!!!!!.............jmho

[Raoul]

When the US was hit in 2001 years ago this was all new to the western world. Things have dramatically changed. Then there were no western assets on the ground in the area. Now there's an existing infrastructure. 

It's probably not fair to compare the two responses to the attacks.

[Oh Shoot]

The United States gets hit on 9/11 and it takes us almost 6 months to retaliate and strike back. France gets hit and France strikes back in 48 hours. Whats wrong with this picture?....

 

When the US was hit in 2001 years ago this was all new to the western world. Things have dramatically changed. Then there were no western assets on the ground in the area. Now there's an existing infrastructure. 

It's probably not fair to compare the two responses to the attacks.

 

France has already been doing airstrikes against ISIS in Syria since late Sept, using same bases from Jordan and the UAE and wherever that we are. They've also been doing same in Iraq for maybe a year, so of course their planes were already in place.

 

That's one reason France was the target of the terrorists, who were shouting "what about Syria".

 

- OS

Edited November 15, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

The United States gets hit on 9/11 and it takes us almost 6 months to retaliate and strike back. France gets hit and France strikes back in 48 hours. Whats wrong with this picture?

 

What's wrong with this picture is you have your facts wrong...The first air strikes against Afghanistan started on 7 October 2001, so we took less than a month to retaliate and strike back like France did, and reading history about that time frame, the only reason it took so long was the military wanted to make sure that Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) was set up and ready in case a pilot had to eject over Afghanistan.  It also took time to set up a target deck. 

 

The CIA had a team in Afghanistan before the end of September, and the Army's Special Forces a few weeks after that.  On 14 November, Kabul fell to the Nothern Alliance (who we supported with airstrikes and SF support), which was two months after 9/11.  In late January, a brigade from Fort Campbell started moving into Kandahar (I was among them) four months after 9/11 for combat operations.  So, where were you getting that six month number from?

 

France on the other hand already had jets in the region at a base in the UAE, and was surely working under US logistical support for in air re-fueling, targeting, CSAR, and everything except flying the planes and dropping the bombs.

[CommsNBombs]

False sense of security. Easy to hit targets that have been pre-identified and when you have air support in the same time zone almost...

The world does not realize that 250K of these guys just embedded in Europe and the US - and we just further emblazoned their cause by having the Frogs smash Raqqa.

What a bunch of funky feel-good garbage.

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[TGO David]

Wow took all of 48 hours to start exacting revenge.  Good for them.

 

It's a sad day when you have to admit that France has bigger balls than you do.

 

You know, if it weren't for France we'd probably all be speaking the Queen's English.  People seem to forget that and go straight to the fact that their gutless politicians "ran" (capitulated) in WWII and refer to them as a nation of cowards.  The French have a long history of kicking ass.

[GlockSpock]

You know, if it weren't for France we'd probably all be speaking the Queen's English. People seem to forget that and go straight to the fact that their gutless politicians "ran" (capitulated) in WWII and refer to them as a nation of cowards. The French have a long history of kicking ass.

Not to mention that England was less than stellar in WWII as well.


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[ou812]

I thought it was wrong with the flack they took when they would not join us when we invaded Iraq..they started with air strikes in Afghanistan in Oct of 2001 and had troops on the ground in Afghanistan  Nov of 2001.

[Caster]

France should take the collar and leash of the FFL and let them have at it. That'd be fun to watch.

[CommsNBombs]

France should take the collar and leash of the FFL and let them have at it. That'd be fun to watch.

 

This.

 

They were chosen to be our right flank security during the Gulf War after all, those dudes are about as elite as you can find outside of our own SOF

[TMF]

I thought it was wrong with the flack they took when they would not join us when we invaded Iraq..they started with air strikes in Afghanistan in Oct of 2001 and had troops on the ground in Afghanistan Nov of 2001.

There were US troops on the ground in October.


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[Sam1]

You know, if it weren't for France we'd probably all be speaking the Queen's English.  People seem to forget that and go straight to the fact that their gutless politicians "ran" (capitulated) in WWII and refer to them as a nation of cowards.  The French have a long history of kicking ass.

 

Was referring to recent times, I know they've done a lot in history (won't pretend to know everything, just what I read in school).  Up to a few years back they really didn't care about anything that happened any longer... When we were tasked with them under the UN banner in Macedonia, we never seen them when out in our tanks, the running joke was that's because theirs had 9 gears, 1 to go forward so they could turn around and 8 in reverse.

[ou812]

There were US troops on the ground in October.


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that was already discussed on page 8.

[TMF]

that was already discussed on page 8.

I may have misread your post. You were talking about the French?


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[Oh Shoot]

I think my point was more insidious. What we're seeing are the next generations of radicalized Muslims from even the most peaceable families that have been living in these various countries.

Meaning that being Islamic period means that x percentage will do this sort of thing in time. Everywhere.

I would be very surprised if the attackers turn out to be French born jihadis. I'm not saying it's impossible, but not probable considering the coordinated manner in which the attack was conducted, along with the OPSEC discipline of the action and support cells prior to the attack. Home grown jihadis can be every bit as crazy, and in most cases crazier, but lack in training and discipline due to their background.

You hypothesis would not surprise me at all.  These people think in terms of generations.  We think in terms of years.  Easily these perps ( for lack of a better word) were born in France.

 

Pretty clear now that all the 8 or 10 principals they know of are French and Belgian citizens, save for the one possible Syrian kid. The alleged "mastermind" is Belgian citizen which they've incredibly let slip through their fingers more than once. Makes sense, folks who do this sort of thing need intimate knowledge of the lay of the land and how things work in the area they want to hit, and who knows that better than long time residents.

 

This is whence most of this will fomenting now, from the sons and grandsons of Muslims who immigrated long ago, some of whom have traveled to be with ISIS for awhile, but most not, just home grown jihadists swept up in the propaganda.

 

Announced over the weekend that there are 900 active investigations afoot in the US regarding ISIS connected activities, spanning every state. We've had about 80 ISIS connected arrests.

 

So I stand by my statement, that while of course it's disconcerting that current Syrian folks are immigrating en masse, the main point is that where Islam exists, especially in Western countries, we're going to have a percentage of the younger descendants doing this sort of thing all over the world, regardless of where they or their parents and grandparents were originally from and no matter how pacifist their elders' religious interpretation.

 

I've long postulated that if these kind of groups really want to spread "terror", the best way to do it is just piecemeal, in small events here and there around the country. They don't need to really swing for the fences ala Twin Tower style, or even the 300 or so killed/wounded in Paris, just small hits in small towns will suffice. A school here, a church there, a bridge or two, whatever. When the average American actually has rational reason to worry that his small town might be next, his children might be next,  that really is terror.

 

If nothing else, think of the financial drain associated with just security regarding this on an ongoing basis.

 

- OS

 

 

[teecro]

I've long postulated that if these kind of groups really want to spread "terror", the best way to do it is just piecemeal, in small events here and there around the country. They don't need to really swing for the fences ala Twin Tower style, or even the 300 or so killed/wounded in Paris, just small hits in small towns will suffice. A school here, a church there, a bridge or two, whatever. When the average American actually has rational reason to worry that his small town might be next, his children might be next,  that really is terror.

 

If nothing else, think of the financial drain associated with just security regarding this on an ongoing basis.

 

- OS

 

Think it has long been said that all they have to do is force us to change our daily lives to which they have all but won...

[dawgdoc]

Imagine the chaos if they bombed just four major bridges around the country. America would come to a halt for at least a few days while every bridge is inspected, with some false alarms. Then, when the all clear is given, some people would still use alternate routes to go to work, creating crazy traffic patterns. No one would feel safe.

The loss life from the initial bombings might be low, but the psychological impact would be great.

[Caster]

We don't really need to be sharing ideas on what would constitute a good terrorist attack. They don't need a ny more sources for idea.

....but, if they attacked whatever facility is responsible for welfare and social security checks they would really cripple things. All the people nursing the social welfare teet would go crazy and many would nearly starve if so much as one months installment of free money were to be disrupted.

[Omega]

Pretty clear now that all the 8 or 10 principals they know of are French and Belgian citizens, save for the one possible Syrian kid. The alleged "mastermind" is Belgian citizen which they've incredibly let slip through their fingers more than once. Makes sense, folks who do this sort of thing need intimate knowledge of the lay of the land and how things work in the area they want to hit, and who knows that better than long time residents.

 

This is whence most of this will fomenting now, from the sons and grandsons of Muslims who immigrated long ago, some of whom have traveled to be with ISIS for awhile, but most not, just home grown jihadists swept up in the propaganda.

 

Announced over the weekend that there are 900 active investigations afoot in the US regarding ISIS connected activities, spanning every state. We've had about 80 ISIS connected arrests.

 

So I stand by my statement, that while of course it's disconcerting that current Syrian folks are immigrating en masse, the main point is that where Islam exists, especially in Western countries, we're going to have a percentage of the younger descendants doing this sort of thing all over the world, regardless of where they or their parents and grandparents were originally from and no matter how pacifist their elders' religious interpretation.

 

I've long postulated that if these kind of groups really want to spread "terror", the best way to do it is just piecemeal, in small events here and there around the country. They don't need to really swing for the fences ala Twin Tower style, or even the 300 or so killed/wounded in Paris, just small hits in small towns will suffice. A school here, a church there, a bridge or two, whatever. When the average American actually has rational reason to worry that his small town might be next, his children might be next,  that really is terror.

 

If nothing else, think of the financial drain associated with just security regarding this on an ongoing basis.

 

- OS

That makes the Syrian migration a worse problem than what many make it out to be.  If current Islamists in those countries can cause this havoc now, imagine the chaos when you introduce hundreds of thousands more.  No, the time to act is now, cut the flow of "refugees" into non-Islamic countries.  If their brethren don't want to step up to the plate, why should we?  Send them to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, hell there is plenty of room in Islamic African nations.

[Hozzie]

Sitting at a Customer site in Brussels as I type this. Molenbeek is a well known ####hole for Muslims in Brussels. To be fair, it would be like tracking some blacks in Cabrini Green in Chicago. Near impossible without 24/7 surveillance, and laws here are very privacy centric. I am sure it will change some, but this could just as easily happen in the US.

Also just got a notice from Dept of State there is a suspicious car near the US Embassy which is less than 2 blocks from where I am. Have bomb squad checking it out.

crazy times for sure. Edited November 16, 2015 by Hozzie

[ou812]

I may have misread your post. You were talking about the French?


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Yes the reason I used They...and since the last 3 or 4 post above mine was about French.

[Sam1]

168 raids in Paris today.  It's a shame they let it get to this level but at least they are going after these people for real now.

[CommsNBombs]

Too little too late.

Theyll just hit someone else like London or Munich.

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[xsubsailor]

 Four state Governors banning Syrian refugees. Hope our's joins the group.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-syrian-refugees-backlash/index.html