Terror attack in France

[QuietDan]

Lock and load.

[Omega]

As far as a heater on the person, I'm afraid "under-gunned" comes to mind for this type scenario.

 

- OS

Many would say we are "under-gunned" with our M4s against their AKs, I would beg to differ.  I would rather engage a rifle with a rifle but if that is not available I rather have my side arm than get caught with my d... in my hand waiting to take a 7.62 to the head.  

[CommsNBombs]

Times like these I almost wish I did not sell my SCAR 17, it is only going to get worse.

France is not the only soft target in the world. Hell NYC's MTA is weak sauce.

I can take a small dinghy from the Atlantic full of explosives, ride into the Long Island Sound, beachhead at Pelham Bay Park landfill, walk 2.2 miles to the 6 train at Buhre Avenue and take it down to 125th or Times Square and blow myself up....and that is just NYC - there are plenty other places that are easy.

Just like in other threads, look at all the dudes who are taking jobs as delivery men, truck drivers, baggage handlers, Port Authority workers, harbormasters...one bag, one box, one truck makes it past any of these places and a lot of people are going to die

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[suspiciousmind]

This happened at a concert, and maybe now my fellow musicians I work with won't look at me all crazy when they figure out I pack at EVERY gig I've ever played at, even the Opry.

I'm gonna start carrying the 12 Guage in my passenger seat again. This is pure insanity.

We need to eradicate this infestation of mankind. They need to be eliminated.

[Fourtyfive]

Just grabbed another 1,000 rounds of 5.56 and 7.62 before prices go north .......

[TMF]

I think my point was more insidious. What we're seeing are the next generations of radicalized Muslims from even the most peaceable families that have been living in these various countries.

Meaning that being Islamic period means that x percentage will do this sort of thing in time. Everywhere.


Oh, not necessarily. Lots of us heathens will fight on your side too. :)

- OS

I would be very surprised if the attackers turn out to be French born jihadis. I'm not saying it's impossible, but not probable considering the coordinated manner in which the attack was conducted, along with the OPSEC discipline of the action and support cells prior to the attack. Home grown jihadis can be every bit as crazy, and in most cases crazier, but lack in training and discipline due to their background.


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[K191145]

I think my point was more insidious. What we're seeing are the next generations of radicalized Muslims from even the most peaceable families that have been living in these various countries.

 

Meaning that being Islamic period means that x percentage will do this sort of thing in time. Everywhere.

 

 

Oh, not necessarily. Lots of us heathens will fight on your side too. :)

 

- OS

 

I know that's the main problem, young Muslims who are citizens of the country they live in are being recruited to ISIS more and more, something in these times are attracting them to it, I don't really see how to stop it either. I certainly don't want more posing as poor refugees, they may combat hardened fighters as far as we know with far more training and skills than new citizen recruits, more lethal. Not allowing non-citizen Muslims into the country doesn't infringe upon any ones Constitutional rights but we have to be careful how we handle the Muslims who are citizens. I'm not sure how much it may violate the Constitution by planting moles/spies in Mosques around the country, the feds probably already have a few in some Mosques. As far as social media goes, what do they have to say online to warrant a further look? The only thing you and I can do as a citizen is keep our gun on our hip. 

[Mike.357]

Yep watching this too.

 

 

UNDERSTAND what I'm saying here.  This will turn out to have muslim ties.  The people that have been killed/injured did NOT deserve this in any way.  BUT, France as a whole deserve every bit of this.  They let the bastards in by the train load.  It will happen here and my heart breaks for the victims but as a WHOLE country, we will deserve it too.  

 

We used to believe that Nazi germany was the worst enemy of the last few centuries.  I believe it is the filth of islam.  We are finding out the true evil that is Islam.  

 

:clap:

[TMF]

. I'm not sure how much it may violate the Constitution by planting moles/spies in Mosques around the country, the feds probably already have a few in some Mosques. As far as social media goes, what do they have to say online to warrant a further look? The only thing you and I can do as a citizen is keep our gun on our hip.

The FBI got spanked by the liberal media for doing this. I'm going to assume the bad press associated with it resulted in Obama strictly limiting how much this happens.

Political correctness is killing people.


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[btq96r]

This type of attack has the consequences of open borders written all over it.  Like TMF said, too well planned, coordinated, and executed.  The bottom line is that France is a soft target, and that's why they've had these attacks lately.

 

Per POTUS' comment on ISIS being "contained"...that applies to their land grab in Iraq & Syria, which is what the White House, Pentagon, ect, are using as the benchmark.  If ISIS can't take any more land outright, they'll ramp up tactics like this.  They're low cost, only require a handful of personnel to leave the Levant, and the results are far more expansive than the body count, which they depend on for propaganda and fear mongering purposes.  Think Hamas & Hezbollah's activities against Israel, but with an amplification in fanaticism, and a much easier population to target in Europe.

 

But that's in Europe, where they are being flooded/invaded by refugees, who represent the perfect recruiting pool for this kind of thing.  What about America?  First things first, this isn't justification for any type of PatriotAct, wiretapping, any civil liberty or civil rights restrictions. Like everyone else, Muslims fall into three categories: 1)  apathetic followers, meaning they just want to live their life, enjoy their family, and could care less what others do; 2) people who may believe in the extremist cause, but don't have the nuts to go past talking a good game; and 3) the extremists who are ready to fight and die.  I'm only worried about the third group, but nothing from them represents the kind of threat that justifies any kind of relaxing of the Constitution.  I know it's popular to think that "all Muslims are the enemy" but lets think logically.  If that were true, and they were all so devout at wanting to kill the infidels, by numbers alone, we'd see attacks in America a lot more often.  There just aren't enough of group 3 to worry me.  As for groups 1 & 2, if they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. 

 

That said, I'm not an idiot.  When I go about my business, I'll be carrying my gun, ready to defend myself if needs be.  The enemy is out there, so just be prepared to react to contact and protect yourself if it happens in your immediate area.  We get enough people doing that, and like a proper defense perimeter, we'll have overlapping coverage.  All we'll need are citizens "scanning their lane" not a government solution that comes at the cost of our freedoms.

Edited November 14, 2015 by btq96r

[bud]

. Edited January 6, 2016 by bud

[btq96r]

For those of you who would like to see some reporting on this incident, but from a better source than you'll find on it than the US networks, Sky News has a free stream online.

http://news.sky.com/watch-live

[Oh Shoot]

I would be very surprised if the attackers turn out to be French born jihadis. ...

 

FWIW, was reported that the ones in the concert venue were speaking French. And quite young. Which isn't verified, but if true would certainly suggest they weren't new arrivals or anything.

 

And btw, the Charlie Hebdo massacre brothers were French citizens born in Paris, first generation sons of Algerian immigrants.

 

- OS

Edited November 14, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Mike.357]

I look at this site sometimes when stuff happens in the world.  This was from Friday.  Kind of odd in a way.  Was something averted?

 

 

The German national football squad was evacuated from a hotel in Paris on Friday over a bomb threat, local media reported.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — According to the local Express newspaper, the manager of the German national team Oliver Bierhoff confirmed that the team had to leave the hotel that had been cordoned off by police following an anonymous bomb treat.

The 2014 world champions will play a friendly game against France later in the day in Paris.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151113/1030045816/german-football-team-bomb-threat.html

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Mike.357

[btq96r]

FWIW, was reported that the ones in the concert venue were speaking French. And quite young. Which isn't verified, but if true would certainly suggest they weren't new arrivals or anything.

 

And btw, the Charlie Hebdo massacre brothers were French citizens born in Paris, first generation sons of Algerian immigrants.

 

- OS

 

Some of the northern African countries where refugees were first coming out of when the Arab Spring have French speakers; Tunisia and Algeria come to mind.  This article about Tunisian refugees if from over four years ago, but it's easy enough to realize that for all the ones they rounded up, there were probably a lot more that the net didn't catch.

 

Not saying you're wrong, just saying either or is possible based on migration trends.

Edited November 14, 2015 by btq96r

[Mike.357]

FWIW, was reported that the ones in the concert venue were speaking French. And quite young. 

- OS

 

 

You hypothesis would not surprise me at all.  These people think in terms of generations.  We think in terms of years.  Easily these perps ( for lack of a better word) were born in France.  

[TMF]

FWIW, was reported that the ones in the concert venue were speaking French. And quite young. Which isn't verified, but if true would certainly suggest they weren't new arrivals or anything.

And btw, the Charlie Hebdo massacre brothers were French citizens born in Paris, first generation sons of Algerian immigrants.

- OS

We will see what comes out in the next few weeks. There are stark differences between the Charlie Hebdo attack and this one, and the indicators are that these people have the training and discipline of foreign fighters.


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[RED333]

I think my point was more insidious. What we're seeing are the next generations of radicalized Muslims from even the most peaceable families that have been living in these various countries.

 

Meaning that being Islamic period means that x percentage will do this sort of thing in time. Everywhere.

 

 

Oh, not necessarily. Lots of us heathens will fight on your side too. :)

 

- OS

I will take a few good "heathens" over 1000s of gutless mohammedans.

[RED333]

With modern cars the back seat (the part your butt sits on) can be removed in short order.

Some have a small release, others you have to push to the rear and lift up.

Good place to hide stuff.

However get some kind of cable to keep the object you are hiding attached with a lock to the car till "you" need it.

A person can smash a window out and get something out in less that 30 seconds.

Modern cars have a trunk release in side the car.

 

Just saying

[Shepherd Master]

Lamentations 5Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

5 Remember, Adonai, what has happened to us;
look, and see our disgrace.
2 The land we possessed has been passed on to strangers,
our homes to foreigners.
3 We have become fatherless orphans,
our mothers now are widows.
4 We have to pay to drink our own water;
we have to buy our own wood.
5 The yoke is on our necks; we are persecuted;
we toil to exhaustion but are given no rest.
6 We made pacts with Egypt and Ashur
to get enough food.
7 Our ancestors sinned and no longer exist;
we bear the weight of their guilt.
8 We are ruled by slaves,
and there is no one to save us from their power.
9 We get our food at the peril of our lives
because of the sword in the desert.
10 Our skins are as black as a furnace
because of the searing blasts of famine.
11 They have raped the women of Tziyon,
virgins in the cities of Y’hudah.
12 Princes are hung up by their hands,
leaders receive no respect.
13 Young men are compelled to grind at the mill,
boys stagger under loads of wood.
14 The old men have deserted the city gate,
the young men have given up their music.
15 Joy has vanished from our hearts,
our dancing has turned into mourning.
16 The crown has fallen from our heads.
Woe to us! for we have sinned.
17 This is why our hearts are sick;
this is why our eyes grow dim —
18 it’s because of Mount Tziyon, so wasted
that jackals have overrun it.
19 You, Adonai, reign forever;
your throne endures through all generations.
20 Why do you never remember us?
Why abandon us for so long a time?
21 Adonai, turn us back to you; and we will come back;
renew our days, as they were in the past —
22 unless you have totally rejected us
in a fury that knows no limits.

 

[CommsNBombs]

Seems all the ISIS twitter accounts are deleted again, I really wish I knew how to read Arabic - some keyword kept popping up last night باريس_تشتعل#

Which rougly translates to Paris On Fire.

Attacks were promised in DC, London and Rome next. And before you write those off, ISIS promised to make France flow with the blood of their enemies on the 22nd of July - took them a few months but they did it.

The more "territory" they lose in the Levant the more frequent this will get. They are operating on an operational and intelligence scale that only AQAP and Abu Sayyaf have done in the past.

They already blew up a Russian commuter jet, France is a soft target now someone else will be next. Complacency kills - if France had a counter intel unit worth a damn, this could have been prevented.

Black Friday...that is a good target. Maybe not a planned one, but I expect at least one or two copycat attacks. I am doing my shopping online or at my LGS - now way in hell should anyone get near a mall or crowded place.

A lot of people on FB are already mentioning that followed by defiance - "that is what the terrorists want us to do"...do not be stupid. I would rather be careful then blown to bits.

I have talked to a few TGOers here on my experience during HME and AIED courses before I reclassed - the equipment and technical/chemical prowess needed to synthesize something deadly is extremely easy, makes a small footprint and financially would not raise a flag.

Stay safe out there folks

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[dawgdoc]

One of the things I worry about is a suicide attacker just using a vest or a car bomb.  They might actually believe they could encounter armed resistance and just spend all their planning on bombs rather than AKs; hard to defend against that.  

 

Also, the premier of Star Wars is expected to be huge; I wonder if the theaters will use actual security screening, like metal detectors.  Wouldn't help if a guy detonated a suicide vest in the lobby, though.

[Sam1]

 if France had a counter intel unit worth a damn, this could have been prevented.

 

 

Have to disagree with this, no one can stop everything, all the time.  However, they did pigeon hole themselves into the situation which allowed it to occur, just like we are doing now in the US.

[MrJones79]

As far as a heater on the person, I'm afraid "under-gunned" comes to mind for this type scenario.

- OS

Yeah definitely agree with outgunned aspect, but even if one or two people start shooting back it changes the game completely. It would have at the least diverted the terrorists attention from killing innocent people to defending themselves. May have let more people get out alive. No way to ever know for sure, of course, but seems a likely scenario.

[Caster]

Outgunned?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  The element of surprise is worth a lot.  "I" would be outgunned for sure.  But one with training and a pinch of talent...maybe not.  

 

Either way, carry everywhere, for whatever reason suits you best.  I carry to defend my wife and myself, not sure how far I'd go for a stranger.  One reason I carry for SURE, If they're gonna get me, I wanna make a lot of racket on my way out.  It's easy to type what we'd do behind the bullet proof armor of the computer screen, but I won't kneel and be executed like a pissant.  Make 'em work for it!