67 yo woman charged with Agg Assault for drawing when she felt threatened

[jgradyc]

1. Why would someone go to WalMart and wait in line... there's always a line... to buy one pack of cigarettes?
2. Why would you buy cigarettes and no lighter?
3. Why wouldn't you just wait until you got to your car and use its cigarette lighter?
4. Why would you walk past an old lady and then double back to "ask her for a light?"

Edited November 12, 2015 by jgradyc

[monkeylizard]

5. Why would you go to Wal-Mart?

[Oh Shoot]

5. Why would you go to Wal-Mart?

 

I got 3,000 rounds of .22LR there a couple of weeks ago at the cheapest price in America.

 

- OS

[crossfire]

I got 3,000 rounds of .22LR there a couple of weeks ago at the cheapest price in America.

 

- OS

:pleased:

[FTE]

• Why would someone go to WalMart and wait in line... there's always a line... to buy one pack of cigarettes?
• Why would you buy cigarettes and no lighter?
• Why wouldn't you just wait until you got to your car and use its cigarette lighter?
• Why would you walk past an old lady and then double back to "ask her for a light?"

Maybe it was the closest.

Maybe he thought he had a lighter

I haven't seen a cig lighter in a car in 10 years

Maybe she looked like a smoker.

[emoji4]


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[rugerla1]

Maybe it was the closest.
Maybe he thought he had a lighter
I haven't seen a cig lighter in a car in 10 years
Maybe she looked like a smoker.
[emoji4]
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Maybe he was gonna punch her in the face and take her purse? Edited November 13, 2015 by rugerla1

[Oh Shoot]

Maybe he was gonna punch her in the face and take her purse?

 

Well, we don't have Minority Report enforcement. Yet.

 

But whatever his intent, simply displaying a firearm, even in the hand, without pointing it at him, would have been at least in the ballpark of reasonable.

 

But especially pointing it at him after he retreated and not only that with his standing right next to a bystander/child went beyond the pale. Doing so to the guy is what got the assault charge, and the lady and her child being involved is what got the endangerment one.

 

Both seem fairly reasonable charges to me under the circumstances if I had done it, and since I wouldn't expect any particular leniency just because I'm 67, would seem a bit sexist under the law to give her any either. Though she'll probably get some, and I might too, who knows.

 

- OS

[FTE]

Maybe he was gonna punch her in the face and take her purse?

Maybe. Maybe he just wanted a light.


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[K191145]

I would like to know more but it does sound like the lady was a little too quick to draw and usually thugs with records, with bad intentions don't call the cops after they are confronted and leave the scene. Maybe the assault charge was a little harsh but she needs some education when to 'threaten" someone with deadly force. If she's that terrified she needs to go somewhere else, it also sound like from the article that there were other people in the lot, while it's no guarantee, there is safety in numbers when the lone thug is concerned, not for the mass shooter though.

There was a time I allowed my handgun to be intentionally seen, thinking about the law about drawing on someone but I had good suspicion of the person but no real proof he was up to no good or at least thinking about it. Many years ago when I first got my HCP I was doing a service call on a condensing unit behind a liquor store on 8th Ave. just before it turns into Franklin Ave. There is a 7" chain link fence around the back of the building but the big gate was open and I had my work van with high dollar tools and equipment in it, all by myself starting to get dark behind a liquor store on south 8th Ave. This rough looking guy kept walking back and forth from the side of the building up the alley and back, did that 2 times looking and slowing down at me and my work van. The second time I "HAD" to get something out of my front pocket so I "HAD" to lift my shirt up to get it, doing that plainly showed my handgun, which at the time was a bright stainless Rossi 971 .357 magnum with a 4" barrel in a cheapo leather holster on my hip, I also let him know I was aware of him as I stared back as he walked up the street again. Anyway, I hurried up and replaced a capacitor which is fast and easy and got out of there. Maybe he just wanted to bum some money, I don't know but I wasn't going to take chances on him or wait around for him to get some of his friends. I don't miss service work at all.

Edited November 13, 2015 by K191145

[M1_Garand]

Yeah, just stay away from Walmart. My two instances of "flashing" my gun happened at a Walmart.

 

First time I'm unlocking my car and I hear "Hey, hey HEY YOU!!!!" I look over and there is this 400 pound running full steam at the front of my car, hands in his pockets yelling at me. I moved to the back of my car so it was between us, pulled my jacket open so he could see my gun (Glock 22 in a shoulder holster) and told him to stop. He stops at the front of my car and gives me some story about how he needs money to put tires on his car (his demeanor is pretty pissed off and angry), I tell him I can't help him, and he moves off. Didn't see a reason to pull, but he put the breaks on as soon as he saw my holster.

 

Second time I was in the self checkout lane about 1:00am (emergency run for my wife) and some dude that was obviously high as a kite gets uncomfortably close and starts asking about my purchases, what I'm doing, and where I'm parked. I figured he was either interviewing me to rob me in the parking lot later, or was looking for a gay pickup. I politely told him to get lost and "adjusted" my shirt tail to show off my Glock 27 holstered in my waistband. He got the hint and wandered off. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by M1_Garand

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

I gotta say I disagree with the safety in numbers, especially when at Walmart? Remember the video of the cat fight? With the little boy throwing things? Everyone stood around and watched for "fear of a lawsuit". No one helps others anymore. There's a good chance she could've been robbed and no one would give a crap. Unless a new van showed and then it would be people acting concerned. I used to shop at that Walmart in my younger single days and I never once felt safe in the parking lot.

Grandma might be a bit paranoid, she might have pulled too soon and she even might have been a bit wreck less when/if she pointed it at others. But if a man walks up to me for a "light", no way I'm not at least putting my hand on my gun and telling him where he can go. The options are to the gas station at the front of that parking lot for a lighter or the heck away from me. Otherwise, something else is gonna happen.

We forget too, seniors are easy targets. Especially a little, old, crazy 67 year old. I'm in no way saying she was right. I'm just saying I understand her fear.

[Dolomite_supafly]

• Why would someone go to WalMart and wait in line... there's always a line... to buy one pack of cigarettes?
• Why would you buy cigarettes and no lighter?
• Why wouldn't you just wait until you got to your car and use its cigarette lighter?
• Why would you walk past an old lady and then double back to "ask her for a light?"

I used to smoke and at the same time in my life I was poor. I can easily see someone not buying a lighter because they cannot afford it. Yeah I know, if they can't afford a lighter they should not be smoking but some people cannot or do not want to quit. I have bummed a light hundreds of times because I did not have a way to light a cigarette.

Does it say that the only thing he bought was cigarettes? But even so what does it matter. It is perfectly legal to buy cigarettes only. Since when is smoking synonymous with being s bad guy?

There have been times when all I could afford was rolling papers and a bag of tobacco. Lucky for me back then a lot of places that sold tobacco would also give you a book of matches if you ask.

I agree she did not act like most of us would but none of us know how scared she really was and it is that fear that caused her to draw her firearm, not because she wanted to.

I do believe she overreacted if you assume she is in perfect health but if she is not or is feeble that could make her fear for her life. I can say that because I am disabled I would react differently than someone who is not.

Perhaps require her to attend a firearms training class like a driving class for those who do not follow the rules of the road. After all the instructor of her HCP class could have told her she can draw any time she is in fear for her life and maybe, in her mind, her life was in danger.

And a lot of random assaults start with a conversation to put the victim at ease before the criminal goes on the attack.

As far as turning and coming back there could be several reasons why. Maybe the lady just lit her own cigarette and the guy figured he would bum a light from her. Maybe the guy was walking or his car did not have a lighter. No reason to assume that the guy was a bad guy because he circled back. And with that I will not assume a 67 year old lady is a bad person for doing what she thought she HAD to.

[monkeylizard]

Maybe the guy needs a copy of this book:

 

 

Oddly enough, the driver is in more danger than the kids, because LIONS EAT GIRAFFES!!!!!!!!

Edited November 13, 2015 by monkeylizard

[jgradyc]

I think between now and her court date she should attend a good handgun safety course taught by someone well known in the law enforcement community. And then tell the judge that she was frightened for her life and didn't react the way she should have, but she won't do it again.

 

At the end of the day, no shots were fired. 

 

My wife is about the same age. I would far rather see her go to court than risk what might have happened if she hadn't drawn on this guy, even if the odds of something bad happening were 10,000 to 1.

 

Also, it's a little harder for a women to intimidate a potential bad guy by holding her hand in her purse than for a guy in a similar situation.

 

I had a guy obviously following me in a Walmart parking lot. He was on the far side of the lane from me but glancing over at me. When I reached my car way in the back of the lot, he started to cross over towards me. I turned to face him and put my right hand on the small of my back. He quickly made a right angle turn and walked off. He assumed I was armed, even though he never saw a weapon and I never unholstered my gun. It's harder for a woman to do something like this if they are purse carrying.

 

Question: What would the proper protocol be for a frail 67-year-old woman when approached by someone who she felt threatened by?

 

I think she would be justified in drawing her weapon and holding it in the low ready position. 

[KahrMan]

 

 

Also, it's a little harder for a women to intimidate a potential bad guy by holding her hand in her purse than for a guy in a similar situation.

 

 

 

I agree.  If i see a guy with his hand in his purse I give him a wide berth.

[kimbercarry]

Hey folks get real. The guy is 10 ft away. How close is acceptable. She didn't know him, gotta believe he was bigger than her, flimsy excuse to get closer and yea I would probably done the same but kept quite and not pointed the weapon directly at him until I was sure he was coming closer. I'm in my 70's, can't run or jump anymore and I'm not going to be a victim. I had rather take my chances in a courtroom than in a parking lot. If it were my wife, I would be giving her accolades for her vigilance.

10 ft and closing leaves no time to guess what he's up to, give the lady a break and try to put yourself in that predicament. Her reaction could have been different but the action she took may have prevented something a lot worse than facing a jury. You gotta hold the guy responsible for doing stupid stuff.

[FTE]

Getting real for a second.......choosing to go out in public, then pulling a gun on any stranger that gets 10 feet from you and dares to speak is.....simply frightening to me as a citizen. Continuing to point that gun at him and others deserves jail time.


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[FTE]

And....pointing a gun at someone for speaking to you is....in no way.....holding him responsible for doing "stupid stuff".


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[jgradyc]

I watched the TV interview of her. She looked frail and talked like she was a little... something... senile? You know, the way some old people just sound... old? 

 

I think she was truly frightened for her life. 

 

Hey folks get real. The guy is 10 ft away. How close is acceptable. She didn't know him, gotta believe he was bigger than her, flimsy excuse to get closer and yea I would probably done the same but kept quite and not pointed the weapon directly at him until I was sure he was coming closer. I'm in my 70's, can't run or jump anymore and I'm not going to be a victim. I had rather take my chances in a courtroom than in a parking lot. If it were my wife, I would be giving her accolades for her vigilance.

10 ft and closing leaves no time to guess what he's up to, give the lady a break and try to put yourself in that predicament. Her reaction could have been different but the action she took may have prevented something a lot worse than facing a jury. You gotta hold the guy responsible for doing stupid stuff.

Twenty years ago, I might act differently, but in today's world, I'm with you 100%.  If it were my wife or sister, I would want them to draw in this situation. I saw her TV interview with the local new station. She looked really frail. I truly believe her when she said she feared for her life. That doesn't condone her actions, but it should be enough to get her off with a warning. She's already being punished enough by having to defend herself in court. Who knows how much that will cost?

Edited December 1, 2015 by jgradyc

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Hard to speak authoritatively on it without seeing what really happened....but some points that will apply in all situations.....

 

1. Whether you like it or not pointing a gun at someone in TN is aggravated assault........unless you can clearly articulate WHY you felt the need to point a gun at them to defend yourself AND the evidence supports that. Should she have drawn her gun? Maybe...I was not there. But as a general rule unless it is a clearly defined threat that you can articulate in court (and it looks like she's going to have to articulate it in court) then you might think twice before pulling and pointing it at someone. 

 

2. You are either a victim or a perpetrator. GET IN THE VICTIM COLUMN AS QUICK AS YOU CAN. If someone approaches you and you are threatened enough to pull your gun you better feel threatened enough to also pull your phone and call the cops...because if you don't they probably will. 

 

3. This is the kind of thing that pepper spray was made for....had she pointed a can of spray at him then she would likely not be having to make bail....just something to think about.

[Omega]

I don't know about the pepper spray, within 10 feet I don't know that it would of been able to be used effectively.  Heck, its been shown that a gun is difficult to deploy at that distance.  

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Well if she had the time to get the gun out...which she clearly did since she's being charged with Aggravated Assault for pointing the gun at him...then she had the same amount of time to pull pepper spray. 

 

Again, I was not there and have seen no video of the incident. I was merely commenting that if she had pulled a can of pepper spray we likely would have never heard of this situation or of her...... 

 

And if she had merely drawn (without pointing at him) and yelled at him to back off and then immediately  gotten on the phone and called the cops saying she had been assaulted and had to pull her gun and gave description of the guy then we might not have heard of this.... 

 

Of course it also simply could be that in this case she overreacted.....that is possible too. Again, I was not there, and have not seen video, but not EVERYONE who EVER pulls a gun in "self defense" is necessarily acting within the law or within what a reasonable person would feel is prudent.  In any case, she will get the chance to explain it all in court. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by Cruel Hand Luke

[bersaguy]

Has there been any updates on this story since it broke? I watch news every night and have not heard anything since the first night.... :shrug:

[jgradyc]

Last I heard, she had a court date for early January, but that was news the first few days after the event. I've heard nothing since.

[diamondback]

I personally would have shown I had a gun and asked them to stay back instead of drawing. someone asking for a light is a common way to start a robbery as well as time.