ATF Site Does It Again

[Oh Shoot]

I was going to respond in another thread in this section, but in keeping with its culture of obfuscation, just noticed that ATF website has been totally "revised" again.

 

Meaning, lots of the FAQs that were previously there have been severely abridged, and all the links I had saved now either are dead, or point to the much more incomplete ones now.

 

Notably, the main NFA FAQ used to be three times longer, and even what is there is only partially correct, as in "true but incomplete" as far as the answers.

 

A few of the more detailed Q/A I had pasted as text files are simply omitted now, so you can no longer point to them. Case in point was about notification about removing firearms from NFA purview either temporarily or permanently, retention of parts preventing that, etc.

 

They seem to do this sort of thing every couple or three years for no good reason other than make everyone's links invalid, and also simply zap information that was previously there.

 

Good ole ATF, not only doing badly what need not be done at all, but keeping folks in the dark about just what the law is to boot, or even their take on it anyway.

 

- OS

Edited November 8, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Garufa]

If you need to know this information you will be told, citizen.

[Oh Shoot]

Here's example, just with the NFA part:

 

The new pages:

 

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa

2 pages, 31 Q/A

 

Here's before the changes, from The WayBack Machine, from just over a month ago. (can be slow at times)

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20150905072948/https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa

3 pages, 69 Q/A

 

LOTS more info, much longer.

 

And of course the one FAQ entry about possessing pistol with a butt stock is so incomplete that it's actually wrong for all practical purposes. ATF is a master of that.

 

- OS

Edited November 8, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[JohnC]

I was going to respond in another thread in this section, but in keeping with its culture of obfuscation, just noticed that ATF website has been totally "revised" again.

 

Meaning, lots of the FAQs that were previously there have been severely abridged, and all the links I had saved now either are dead, or point to the much more incomplete ones now.

 

Notably, the main NFA FAQ used to be three times longer, and even what is there is only partially correct, as in "true but incomplete" as far as the answers.

 

A few of the more detailed Q/A I had pasted as text files are simply omitted now, so you can no longer point to them. Case in point was about notification about removing firearms from NFA purview either temporarily or permanently, retention of parts preventing that, etc.

 

Good ole ATF, not only doing badly what need not be done at all, but keeping folks in the dark about just what the law is to boot.

 

- OS

 

 

Do you have a copy of all the old FAQ and Q&A?

 

If so, PM me and I'll get you my email so you can send it to me. I'd really like to have a copy of it for future reference. 

[Oh Shoot]

Do you have a copy of all the old FAQ and Q&A?

 

If so, PM me and I'll get you my email so you can send it to me. I'd really like to have a copy of it for future reference. 

 

See link to archived version in my post above.

 

Hopefully that will stay, but in case you can save main three pages as HTML with FireFox or IE. With IE you can also save in single file MHT format.

 

However, that doesn't save each individual question link, and the links are also still dependent on Way Back Machine's database, so to be sure, you have to open each question and save that page also. Even though I'm a FireFox user, I prefer the IE .mht format for this, but some of them wouldn't save as MHT files, so you can screen grab them and save as image. I generally save as GIF for that, no compression, full quality and the 256 color limitation isn't an issue with text only.

 

Anyway, I only saved a few of the ones in which I'm particularly interested as they come up as questions all the time. Such as the one where there is actually no requirement to notify ATF when your NFA config has changed, or even when removing it from NFA purview totally, retention of parts that keep it NFA no matter what you may claim to ATF, etc.

 

- OS

Edited November 8, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Ted S.]

Finest example of government efficieny!

[CommsNBombs]

Finest example of government efficieny!

That's right! You praise Big Brother!
And while you are at it hand over your weapons and prepare to be subjugated!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Oh Shoot]

Finest example of government efficieny!

 

Actually, ATF is indeed efficient, in divulging the minimum they can get away with for public consumption, and even that often cloaked in half truth. They want to keep things as murky as possible, relying on intimidation rather than actual court rulings as settled law.

 

For example, they have rulings that have never been tested by a conviction in court -- a vertical forward grip on a pistol and firing a braced pistol from the shoulder as two prime examples.

 

And of course the classic reason they don't even want to test many of their "rules" was the lesson of the Thompson Case in which ATF lost a helluva lot of prosecution power. And the kicker is that they did not acknowledge that publicly in a "ruling" until 2011, even though SCOTUS laid down the law 23 years earlier!

 

And even still, look at the last question in their "FAQ":

 

"If a person has a pistol and an attachable shoulder stock, does this constitute possession of an NFA firearm?

Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol is at least 16 inches in length (and the overall length of the firearm with stock attached is at least 26 inches). However, certain stocked handguns, such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items."

 

Which of course is totally not true, even by ATF's own public admission, unless the pistol and stock are possessed in such a manner than only an illegal configuration can be made. And again, that's from SCOTUS, and not subject to ATF regulatory whim.

 

That's what I mean by their giving partial "information" out, if they make it easily available at all.

 

In short,  ATF duplicitous and thuggish culture seems to remain alive and well.

 

- OS

Edited November 8, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Ted S.]

Funnily enough, your sentiments reflects the intentions of my initial comment. No joke.  :tough:

Edited November 8, 2015 by Ted S.