Attacker goes for your gun...

[Guest Chisum]

Standing at a urinal today I noticed a man standing a bit closer to my right hip than I was comfortable with. No incident occured, but it got me thinking: hypothetically of course, would I be justified in using deadly force to prevent an attacker from taking my gun and turning it on me? Would that logic add up to a strong enough case of reasonable fear for my life?

[Guest superdrew4000]

My personal nightmare regarding gun ownership is failing to defend myself or having my guns stolen. Either way I've armed a criminal... kinda the opposite of what I'm aiming for.

I'm not sure what the law says, but I would rather have a dead bad guy than a dead me and an armed criminal.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, if he CAN get the gun, you're out a gun at the least or dead at the worst.

If he CAN'T get the gun, then you probably won't have to shoot him.

You could try your legal 4" blade into his gizzard.

That won't be lethal, at least for a good long while, and should dissuade him so you can finish peeing.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I think OhShoot is pretty close to right.

If he got your carry weapon and didn't immediately turn and run and you had BUG or other weapon, you may be justified.

If during a struggle for the weapon it went off and struck him, again you may be justified.

If you were able to get total control of the weapon, shooting him because he tried probably would not be justified.

The law says if you have a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm you are justified in using deadly force.

So there is no real way to give a correct answer to a general situation, it would depend on specifics of each situation.

[Mike.357]

here is where concealed showed a benefit. If they do not know you have it they cannot assume you do and make a play for it.

Also using the enclosed stalls with locking doors rather than urinals are your friend.

[Guest Astra900]

here is where concealed showed a benefit. If they do not know you have it they cannot assume you do and make a play for it.

Also using the enclosed stalls with locking doors rather than urinals are your friend.

AMEN!

It's not paranoia talking, KEEP your mind on where you are and what you are doing! Heads in the clouds will land you on that cloud playing a harp:angel:

[Guest jwp]

That's why you don't keep your folder on your strong side, with your gun. Lock down on the gun and start sawing. He'll let go.

[Metalhead]

Surefire pen in the eye!

[bvarnell]

Standing at a urinal today I noticed a man standing a bit closer to my right hip than I was comfortable with.

He wasn't tapping his foot was he???

But good advice about concealing / using a stall.

You would probably have a difficult time justifying a shooting under those circumstances.

[Guest truthsayer]

That's why you don't keep your folder on your strong side, with your gun. Lock down on the gun and start sawing. He'll let go.

Quoted for emphasis. Great stuff right there.

[Guest HexHead]

I think OhShoot is pretty close to right.

The law says if you have a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm you are justified in using deadly force.

Seems to me if you have to struggle with someone trying to get your pistol, you have a reasonable fear he intends to use it on you.

[Fallguy]

Seems to me if you have to struggle with someone trying to get your pistol, you have a reasonable fear he intends to use it on you.

I agree, that is why I said if you were to use another weapon while fighting for your carry weapon or if your carry weapon fired you'd probably be ok (nothing is for sure when it comes to a jury). But if you were able to fight him off, got total control of your weapon and he is now standing there unarmed, it might be a little bit different story.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Seems to me if you have to struggle with someone trying to get your pistol, you have a reasonable fear he intends to use it on you.

That's my line of thought. If someone is attempting to take my gun my assumption is they want to use it on me and I'm going to react accordingly. They are going to get poked with my knife and they may get poked with my hollow-points if I retain control of my gun and I don't feel they are no longer a threat.

[Punisher84]

There was an article I posted on here months ago about weapon retention and using a knife retained on the weak side to "dissuade" the offender from unholstering your firearm without permission.

This is a case where good martial arts knowledge comes in handy. He won't get your gun, but he'll get a trip to the ER with a dislocated shoulder.

EDIT: I looked for the article and can't find it, but the theory is to cut across the bicep and/or through the shoulder of the attacker and immobilize their arm. Aikido comes in very handy in these situations if you know how to use it.

The thing is you have to act and not panic. You want to hold the gun, but remember that they will most likely be going at it with both hands, leaving you one hand free to utilize. It's the same as when people are being grabbed or choked. Don't pull at their hands, inflict pain and MAKE them stop what they are doing.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Punisher84
Info

[Guest canynracer]

Sorry, but if I am in a fight FOR my gun...I will reasonably assume that he wants my gun to shoot me...therefore, he is face first in the urinal with a bullet in his chest. (Hopefully)

[Punisher84]

Sorry, but if I am in a fight FOR my gun...I will reasonably assume that he wants my gun to shoot me...therefore, he is face first in the urinal with a bullet in his chest. (Hopefully)

[Guest canynracer]

ROFL....OUTLOUD!!! that was awesome!

[Guest Liberty Seeker]

Seems to me if you have to struggle with someone trying to get your pistol, you have a reasonable fear he intends to use it on you.

I have to agree with this line of reasoning myself. If someone were to try and take my weapon:screwy:, I would assume they would use any force necessary to keep it, and use it against me. I would have a hard time not using it depending on how things progressed, if the opportunity presented itself after the alercation began.

[Guest grimel]

Well, if he CAN get the gun, you're out a gun at the least or dead at the worst.

If he CAN'T get the gun, then you probably won't have to shoot him.

You could try your legal 4" blade into his gizzard.

That won't be lethal, at least for a good long while, and should dissuade him so you can finish peeing.

- OS

If he is TRYING to get your gun you have issues. Waiting to see if he gets it before responding isn't a good thing. It doesn't matter where the gun is if he is going for a gun he is going for a gun. If you use a knife that is use of lethal force; so, use it to STOP the attack - cut him wide deep and frequently.

[Guest grimel]

EDIT: I looked for the article and can't find it, but the theory is to cut across the bicep and/or through the shoulder of the attacker

If you are going to use deadly force remember the advice all the gun toters give with regards to shooting to wound - it's still use of deadly force. IMNSHO, if you aren't concerned enough to go for the aorta, femoral, etc you are asking to get strung up by any non-friendly DA.

[Guest nraforlife]

He was just checking out what you were packin. Watch what bars you go to

[Guest JLowe]

They die. Or wish they had.

[Punisher84]

If you are going to use deadly force remember the advice all the gun toters give with regards to shooting to wound - it's still use of deadly force. IMNSHO, if you aren't concerned enough to go for the aorta, femoral, etc you are asking to get strung up by any non-friendly DA.

I wasn't advocating anything less. What I'm saying is instead of trying to get people to look for certain arteries I'm getting them to look at the major muscle groups that are attempting to take their weapon. If you want to go poking around looking for arteries be my guest. I'm filleting their damn arm open so they stop. I'm not looking to kill, I'm looking to NEUTRALIZE. Sing it with me children!

[Guest SUNTZU]

+ 1 to using stalls and knife(knives) on non strong arm side. I have a carrylock holster. If an attacker goes for my gun I'll shoot him with my second gun. If I saw someone standing too close too me at the urinal, I'd start talking to myself and barking/growling occasionally. People tend to leave you alone if they think you're a crazy SOB and they're standing there with their manhood in their hands less than two feet away from you. Even if they are trying to start something with you, or rob you, they might think twice about how bad they are if you get them thinking your batshiznit crazy.

[jdogvol]

Standing at a urinal today I noticed a man standing a bit closer to my right hip than I was comfortable with. No incident occured, but it got me thinking: hypothetically of course, would I be justified in using deadly force to prevent an attacker from taking my gun and turning it on me? Would that logic add up to a strong enough case of reasonable fear for my life?

Simple. Turn toward him as you continue peeing.