Carry Permit while on Probation

[Pete123]

I have a friend who is on probation for a misdemeanor marijuana charge.  He's asking if he can get a handgun carry permit.

 

I told him that I don't know, but that someone on TGO probably would.

 

Does anyone know the answer?

[monkeylizard]

The TDOS site https://www.tn.gov/safety/article/handgunmain lists the TCA codes which would be reasons for denial. These are also listed in the HCP law which is TCA 39-17-1351.

 

That's not listed as a reason for denial in the state statutes, but it probably is under the federal statutes. 18 U.S.C. § 922(g ) (3 ) says who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

 

If a person on probation for pot isn't considered a "user" then I don't know who would be. A quick call to TDOS could answer it definitively.

Edited October 30, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Oh Shoot]

If it was a Class A meanor, likely a prob, as existing HCPs are supposed to be suspended for duration of sentence, which includes any probation time.

 

Maybe it's a loophole that if you don't have permit when you were convicted, you could still get one, but wouldn't think so unless the vetting process didn't catch it.

 

- OS

Edited October 31, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Shepherd Master]

I would suggest he sit down and shut up..........for the time being.

 

Once in the system, it takes forever to get out of the system........he's in the 'system'.

 

 

Tell him to finish his probation and keep himself clean 6 months, then try. 

 

Once denied for substance abuse he'll be flagged in the future and he may never get one.

 

 

Just my opinion....as one who has been in the 'system'.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Shepherd Master

[tnhawk]

He might want to check if the terms of his probation will permit him to handle firearms during the probation period.

[10-Ring]

I knew a guy that had a HCP and got a possession of marijuana charge, the judge took his permit from him. After he was off probation the judge gave it back.  That would make me think he couldn't get one while on probation but I'm making an assumption here and could be wrong.

Edited October 31, 2015 by 10-Ring

[TripleDigitRide]

I carry better while high.

Edited October 31, 2015 by TripleDigitRide

[Shepherd Master]

List of Scenarios which render a person INELIGIBLE to obtaina carry permit

1. Any felony conviction; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
2. A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
3. A conviction for misdemeanor stalking;
4. Any open or pending felony case (until resolved);
5. Subject to any Order of Protection (Civil / Pseudo-Criminal) (typically ineligible to possess firearms)
6. A fugitive from justice (Active Criminal Warrants in Another State);
7. Being a patient in a rehabilitation center in the past 10 years;
8. Two or more DUI convictions in Tennessee, or any other state AND if an applicant has two or more DUI convictions, those convictions are within 5 years from the date of application;

List of Scenarios which will result in a Suspension or Revocation of a Carry Permit

1. Being charged with any felony offense will result in a suspension, pending the disposition.
2. If the permit holder is placed on pre-trial or judicial diversion (Suspended for a period of time equal to the diversionary period)
3. A conviction for any Class A Misdemeanor will result in the suspension of a person’s carry permit while the persons’ sentence or probation is in effect. (T.C.A. 39-17-1352 (f)(1))

 

http://nashvilleattorneynow.com/criminal-defense/tn-criminal-lawyers-carry-permit/

[10-Ring]

 

List of Scenarios which render a person INELIGIBLE to obtaina carry permit

1. Being a patient in a rehabilitation center in the past 10 years;

 

http://nashvilleattorneynow.com/criminal-defense/tn-criminal-lawyers-carry-permit/

 

 

This is something that the firearms community needs to start talking about and fighting against.  I hate to hijack a thread but this needs to be addressed.  How many alcoholics out there already have HCPs?  I know of a few personally.  So a person can get 2 DUIs before the HCP is revoked but if they realize that they have a problem and want to get help then their ability to obtain a HCP is gone for 10 years?  How many members of Congress have had 2 DUIs in the past 5 years and/or went though substance abuse treatment in the past 10 years?  I know of a few gun owners who refuse to get mental health assistance even though they admit that they would like to because they don't want to have their gun rights trampled on because they saw a mental health professional and/or were prescribed certain drugs.  Personally I see a bigger move in the future to disqualify gun ownership because of the use of prescribed drugs.  HIPPA does what?

Edited October 31, 2015 by 10-Ring

[Oh Shoot]

....

1. Two or more DUI convictions in Tennessee, or any other state AND if an applicant has two or more DUI convictions, those convictions are within 5 years from the date of application;

 

 

That one is incorrectly stated.

 

It's two or more within last 10 years only and that at least one of those was within last 5.

 

Being a patient in a rehabilitation center in the past 10 years;

 

 

 

So is that one.

 

"Shall not have been adjudicated as mental defective; has not been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution; has not had a court appoint a conservator for the applicant by reason of a mental defect; has not been judicially determined to be disabled by reason of a mental illness, development disability or other mental incapacity; and has not, within seven (7) years from the date of application, been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm, as defined in Title 33, Chapter 6, Part 5, because of mental illnes"

 

I don't think I'd use that law firm myself.

 

- OS

Edited October 31, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

This is something that the firearms community needs to start talking about and fighting against.  I hate to hijack a thread but this needs to be addressed.  How many alcoholics out there already have HCPs?  I know of a few personally.  So a person can get 2 DUIs before the HCP is revoked but if they realize that they have a problem and want to get help then their ability to obtain a HCP is gone for 10 years?  How many members of Congress have had 2 DUIs in the past 5 years and/or went though substance abuse treatment in the past 10 years? ....

 

Statement from that source is incorrect, see my other post.

 

Voluntary treatment is not grounds for denial.

 

From TNDOS FAQ:

 

Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective or have you been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution?

 

"Under 2009 Public Chapter 578, effective January 1, 2010, the applicant should answer ‘yes’ if he or she has been judicially committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution pursuant to title 33 (otherwise known as ‘involuntary commitment’).

An applicant who was voluntarily committed is legally able to answer ‘no’ to Questions 13(A).

A person who was judicially/involuntarily committed and who answers ‘no’ to Question 13(A) is making a false statement under penalty of perjury."

 

- OS

Edited October 31, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[10-Ring]

Thanks for clearing that issue up OS.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Most people on probation are barred from owning, possessing or using firearms while on probation. It is almost always a condition of being on probation.

[Oh Shoot]

Most people on probation are barred from owning, possessing or using firearms while on probation. It is almost always a condition of being on probation.

 

Depends on nature and level of crime. Few non-violent ones probably have firearm possession proscribed.

 

DUI is probably the most common Class A 'meanor conviction in TN -- first time convictions have the 11/29 probation, and firearm possession isn't ever an issue with that.

 

- OS

[Dustbuster]

Most people on probation are barred from owning, possessing or using firearms while on probation. It is almost always a condition of being on probation.

true,but additionally,a judge can make any ruling they want, and will, regardless if the law.


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[ma690701]

List of Scenarios which render a person INELIGIBLE to obtaina carry permit

• Any felony conviction; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
• A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence; (permanent bar to possession of firearms per Tennessee and Federal law)
• A conviction for misdemeanor stalking;
• Any open or pending felony case (until resolved);
• Subject to any Order of Protection (Civil / Pseudo-Criminal) (typically ineligible to possess firearms)
• A fugitive from justice (Active Criminal Warrants in Another State);
• Being a patient in a rehabilitation center in the past 10 years;
• Two or more DUI convictions in Tennessee, or any other state AND if an applicant has two or more DUI convictions, those convictions are within 5 years from the date of application;

List of Scenarios which will result in a Suspension or Revocation of a Carry Permit

• Being charged with any felony offense will result in a suspension, pending the disposition.
• If the permit holder is placed on pre-trial or judicial diversion (Suspended for a period of time equal to the diversionary period)
• A conviction for any Class A Misdemeanor will result in the suspension of a person’s carry permit while the persons’ sentence or probation is in effect. (T.C.A. 39-17-1352 (f)(1))

http://nashvilleattorneynow.com/criminal-defense/tn-criminal-lawyers-carry-permit/

They changed that "rehab" provision to 3 years. Last year I think.

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[ma690701]

They changed that "rehab" provision to 3 years. Last year I think.

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If you VOLUNTARILY go to inpatient rehab, you lose your permit for 3 years in TN. Prior to last year it WAS 10 years.

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[Oh Shoot]

They changed that "rehab" provision to 3 years. Last year I think.

If you VOLUNTARILY go to inpatient rehab, you lose your permit for 3 years in TN. Prior to last year it WAS 10 years.

 
Where'd you get that?

There is no such provision for suspension of a permit due to voluntary commitment in 39-17-1352, and voluntary commitment is not a disqualifying event for getting a permit in the first place, as per 39-17-1351 and as explained in FAQ on TNDOS handgun site also.
 
- OS

Edited November 23, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

true,but additionally,a judge can make any ruling they want, and will, regardless if the law.

This.
And so can a Probation Officer. When you agree to probation you give up some rights and privileges.

A long time ago someone posted a link to a site that listed the people that had been refused and why. I remember seeing several possession of marijuana charges on there. I assume they were misdemeanor charges or the reason would have been convicted felon.

[ma690701]

Where'd you get that?

There is no such provision for suspension of a permit due to voluntary commitment in 39-17-1352, and voluntary commitment is not a disqualifying event for getting a permit in the first place, as per 39-17-1351 and as explained in FAQ on TNDOS handgun site also.

- OS

It was on my last renewal. It used to say--"has not been a patient..hospitalized for alcohol or substance abuse..for 10 years." On my latest renewal it said 3 years. I was curios so I called the number on the website. It does not say the word "voluntary"--but there is ANOTHER provision for involuntary (officially it says "adjucated") that calls for 7 years. I agree it is BS. Someone is trying to do the right thing and is smacked for it. They told me they usually only find out about voluntary treatment when it becomes time for renewals, and that it is by far the #1 reason for people to be denied on renewal.

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[Oh Shoot]

It was on my last renewal. It used to say--"has not been a patient..hospitalized for alcohol or substance abuse..for 10 years." On my latest renewal it said 3 years. I was curios so I called the number on the website. It does not say the word "voluntary"--but there is ANOTHER provision for involuntary (officially it says "adjucated") that calls for 7 years. I agree it is BS. Someone is trying to do the right thing and is smacked for it. They told me they usually only find out about voluntary treatment when it becomes time for renewals, and that it is by far the #1 reason for people to be denied on renewal.

 

Ya know what? You're right and I'm wrong. Happens every decade or so. :)  I was wrongly conflating commitment for mental disorder and commitment for alcohol/drugs. There are indeed separate conditions involved so again,  mea culpa.

 

But here's the deal as I understand the drug/alcohol part -- you have to be both:

 

"an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol, any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue

AND either

- A patient in a rehabilitation program pursuant to a court order or hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction pursuant to a court order within ten (10) years from the date of application; or

- A voluntary patient in a rehabilitation program or voluntarily hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction within three (3) years from the date of application"

 

The "and" is the same importance as the "and" in the DUI condition as I understand it. So is the question still worded that way on the form? Meaning you have to admit to being currently an unlawful user or addict to be disqualified?

 

And indeed, TNDOS blanket statement on site is wrong by being incomplete, as it only mentions the 10 year period. If that law just changed last year, it slipped by everyone here, which is unusual, but guess it happened.

 

And as a side issue, how would TNDOS "find out" if you had entered voluntary rehab in the first place if you didn't admit it?

 

- OS

Edited November 23, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[ma690701]

Ya know what? You're right and I'm wrong. Happens every decade or so. :) I was wrongly conflating commitment for mental disorder and commitment for alcohol/drugs. There are indeed separate conditions involved so again, mea culpa.

But here's the deal as I understand the drug/alcohol part -- you have to be both:

"an unlawful user of or addicted to alcohol, any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue
AND either
- A patient in a rehabilitation program pursuant to a court order or hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction pursuant to a court order within ten (10) years from the date of application; or
- A voluntary patient in a rehabilitation program or voluntarily hospitalized for alcohol, controlled substance or controlled substance analogue abuse or addiction within three (3) years from the date of application"

The "and" is the same importance as the "and" in the DUI condition as I understand it. So is the question still worded that way on the form? Meaning you have to admit to being currently an unlawful user or addict to be disqualified?

And indeed, TNDOS blanket statement on site is wrong by being incomplete, as it only mentions the 10 year period. If that law just changed last year, it slipped by everyone here, which is unusual, but guess it happened.

And as a side issue, how would TNDOS "find out" if you had entered voluntary rehab in the first place if you didn't admit it?

- OS

According to my research, they find out on only on renewal. Further research (involving lawyers) reveals no provision REQUIRING one to notify the state of one has been in rehab. I have been advising people in this situation to let their permit lapse and re-apply when the 3 year period is over--rather than get denied. The only other option is to LIE--which is a very bad idea (and a felony). I would not want to have a denial on my history.

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[Oh Shoot]

According to my research, they find out on only on renewal. Further research (involving lawyers) reveals no provision REQUIRING one to notify the state of one has been in rehab. I have been advising people in this situation to let their permit lapse and re-apply when the 3 year period is over--rather than get denied. The only other option is to LIE--which is a very bad idea (and a felony). I would not want to have a denial on my history.

 

Again, I'd like  to see exactly how the question is posed on the HCP app.

 

- OS

[ma690701]

Again, I'd like to see exactly how the question is posed on the HCP app.

- OS

It is online. You can read it. It is worded exactly like you posted above, only 3 years and not 10 years.

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[Oh Shoot]

It is online. You can read it. It is worded exactly like you posted above, only 3 years and not 10 years

 

Where? I have never found a copy online. I want to read it, even put out a call for a copy in another thread.

 

The point is I want to see exactly how the question is posed verbatim, to see if both current and past conditions must be met as per the statute,  same as the DUI part.

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2015 by Oh Shoot