NFA Trusts

[poak]

Sounds like most people see the trust thing as not to smart, oh well some people look good in stripes,

You could always buy a factory SBR from Passive Aggressive Arms

[TGO David]

You could always buy a factory SBR from Passive Aggressive Arms

That company is the best! Their rifles slam fire and then act like it was an accident.

[poak]

That company is the best! Their rifles slam fire and then act like it was an accident.

Ever notice how instead of the typical "MPI" stamped on the bolt it's stamped "We MPI this, like you even know what that means or needed it done."

[quesogrande]

Willmaker messes up a will or a garden variety living trust, worse case scenario, you (or your family) spend some extra time in probate court getting things ironed out. Mess up on a NFA trust and you could see jail time.

I was just make a comment about this statment.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

If I had went the trust route I would have most likely paid a lawyer to set up a trust, you don't have to but it makes things easier. There are reasons why one would use a trust, and rather or not people want to directly admit it one of the most common reasons is to bypass the CLEO sign-off because of a simple refusal to sign. However this in the Tennessee gun owners forums, and assuming all here are located in TN I thought I should bring up the following bit of legislation

§ 39-17-1361. http://tennessee.gov/sos/acts/103/pub/pc0275.pdf

In short, the CLEO is REQUIRED to sign your forms!

When I get a sign-off I pay $10 for each fingerprint card, and $10 for a background check (they run this before signing the forms, same one ran by the TBI when you buy any gun from an FFL) Typically within a week of visiting to have my prints taken and drop off the forms I receive the signed forms in my mail box. If you are not going to do many transfers $30 is much less than the cost of setting up a trust.

Sure, with the individual route only you are allowed to transport the NFA items and such, but then again I would not want others to be legally able to mess with any of my NFA items!

Another thing to think about.

If you have several valuable transferable machine-guns and are married; let's say your wife has her name on the trust. What if one day something happens and you find yourself in divorce court. There is a good chance that you will be saying goodbye to some of your favorite investments.

Edited November 30, 2009 by TwoLaneBlackTop

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

John Harris worked on getting this bill passed. Unfortunately they stripped out the penalty for not signing, so while the CLEO is required to sign (if the purchaser is not prohibited), there is nothing you can do if the CLEO does not sign.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

John Harris worked on getting this bill passed. Unfortunately they stripped out the penalty for not signing, so while the CLEO is required to sign (if the purchaser is not prohibited), there is nothing you can do if the CLEO does not sign.

I have never had a problem getting a sign off, but what you are saying is true regarding a lack of consequences for refusal. If a person can not get the signature they could perhaps fight a legal battle over the refusal to sign... maybe... However, in that case the best choice would be to simply go the Trust route. If the person was still sore over the sign-off they could help the campaign of others going up against that said official during the next election.

For those that can not receive the ever elusive signature, go the trust route and pay a lawyer to set it up.

Oh, and as a side note... Some say trust are approved quicker than individual transfers. While delays with the prints can cause long waits it is not typically the problem. The finger print processing by the FBI is slow these days but it is usually finished before the examiner is, so it is not the bottleneck. NFA items on a trust do not seem to be approved any faster or slower than individual transfers. Look at months and months of NFA time lines info on ARFCOM and see for yourself.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Plus if you buy as an individual you are the only one that can use or have access to the items. If your spouse knows the combination to the gun safe, or you want to shoot with a spouse or friend, there is no legal way to do this. With a trust, you just make them co-trustees and now they are authorized.

[Capbyrd]

Can a friend and I for a trust together so that we can borrow each other's NFA items? You do not have to be related to be on the same trust right?

I really don't understand this trust thing but I am definitely interested. I might have to get with a lawyer next year when I get ready to start buying some stuff.

[canadienmike]

Plus if you buy as an individual you are the only one that can use or have access to the items. If your spouse knows the combination to the gun safe, or you want to shoot with a spouse or friend, there is no legal way to do this. With a trust, you just make them co-trustees and now they are authorized.

I thought that others could use the items as long as the owner was there with them.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

The problem is the way that the NFA defines the word transfer. They include loaning. Most people do not understand the definition of transfer under the NFA.

[canadienmike]

The problem is the way that the NFA defines the word transfer. They include loaning. Most people do not understand the definition of transfer under the NFA.

But loaning is different than going to the range with a buddy and firing his NFA item with him standing there next to you. My understanding was that if the owner was right there with you, you could use the item, but you could not borrow the item to use by yourself.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Your presence does not make any difference. Some people like to say its ok as long as my hand is on their shoulder. Look up the definition of loaning, presence, time, or possession are not factors in whether something is loaned or not.

[Jasongar8]

Your presence does not make any difference. Some people like to say its ok as long as my hand is on their shoulder. Look up the definition of loaning, presence, time, or possession are not factors in whether something is loaned or not.

In reality is there a real threat of prosecution for letting your family member/friend shoot your MG/SBR/SBS/AOW/Silencer while you are there with them? Has anyone ever been prosecuted for this type of scenario in the past?

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Generally there is little risk, but why take the chance when its so easy to have a properly setup trust to protect yourself and others

[Guest fdx28]

If there was a risk about letting some shoot your NFA weapon while you're there, why wouldn't some anti-gun DOJ official go after the machinegun shoots? They could get plenty of Pro-2A shooters off the "streets" as well as destroy half the transferable machine guns available. Or for that matter the gun ranges that allow you to rent a C3 gun? The range that let the kids shoot the machine guns surely didn't "employ" a 12 yr old so that he could be an employee of the dealership to avoid an illegal transfer..

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

I am not sure why they have chosen not to do this, nor do I know if they will change their position. Again the real issue is with a solution that removes the risk, why take it?

[Guest Gun Geek]

Lets not give anybody ideas here.

[quesogrande]

It is ok that the revocable living trust becomes irrevocable up on the grantors death. What are your thoughts on this?

[midtennchip]

It is ok that the revocable living trust becomes irrevocable up on the grantors death. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm not sure I understand the question. A revocable trust always becomes irrevocable upon the grantor's death. Only the grantor can revoke the trust, so there's no one to revoke it.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Yes it is ok that the trust can become irrevocable upon the grantor's death.

[quesogrande]

Ok thanks guys, I was reading over some trustsand was wondering what that was all about.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

There are advantages in not doing this but you should discuss it with a lawyer

[TGO David]

David, don't we have a law office here in middle TN working as part of your network? I know you and I have spoken privately about you advertising here and you sort of left it hanging. Perhaps we need to resume those talks.