NFA Trusts

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Yes you can change the names at any time on a trust though an amendment. The requirements for doing this vary in each state but generally you can amend in almost any state with 2 witnesses and a notary.

[quesogrande]

I would like to know who does this kind of work in my area, how would i find out?

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

We have several lawyers we work with in TN and would be happy to get you in touch with one. Please contact me off line for more information on the NFA firearms trusts.

Thanks

David Goldman

dgoldman@guntrustlawyer.com

I would like to know who does this kind of work in my area, how would i find out?

[quesogrande]

Can I use something like this for the Trust?

http://www.legalforms.name/livingtrust/REVOCABLE%20TWO-PARTY%20LIVING%20TRUST.pdf

[Semiauto]

I used Quicken Willmaker software and have purchased 6 NFA items so far. Costs about $60 plus notary fee, if applicable. See what the lawyer charges and go with your gut.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

In TN the CLEO is required to sign your forms! I don't understand why anyone would want to go the trust route.

[Semiauto]

I have purchased suppressors and machine guns. Never once did I have a CLEO sign off on the purchase. I advised him of the purchases after the fact in hope he would keep an eye out on the place. You may be confusing CLEO sign off on a FFL.

[TGO David]

In TN the CLEO is required to sign your forms! I don't understand why anyone would want to go the trust route.

Then you don't understand the advantages of an NFA Trust.

[TGO David]

I have purchased suppressors and machine guns. Never once did I have a CLEO sign off on the purchase. I advised him of the purchases after the fact in hope he would keep an eye out on the place. You may be confusing CLEO sign off on a FFL.

The ATF requires the local chief law enforcement officer (Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc.) to sign off on the application before you submit it if you are doing so as an individual. If a corporation or other legal entity such as a Trust is doing the purchasing, you do not require a CLEO sign off.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

While this may be minor benefit of using a trust, its not one of the major reasons why you should use a trust.

You might review What is a NFA Firearms Trust?

and

Why Do I Need an NFA Firearms Trust?

[quesogrande]

Semiauto, i guess i could aviod all this paper work if you can just add me to your Trust as a Trustee,

I will play nice and bring my own ammo,

[quesogrande]

SemiAuto and TGO, did you have to file your trust with the state or have a notary sign it.

I guess what I am asking, what makes it valid, and is the lawer guy just providing super good notes for a super price?

[Semiauto]

Don't get me wrong, lawyers provide a good service and I'm not recommending you do one or the other. In TN, you do not have to file your Trust with the county courthouse. In some states, you do and it becomes public record. Your Trust must be notarized to be legal and it must be filled out correctly and signed. Every time I buy an NFA item, I send the Trust and Schedules in with the application for transfer. That way I know the ATF has seen the Trust and approved it, and it limits my liability in case they get a wild hair. It would be hard for them to say my Trust is invalid if they have approved multiple transfers after having seen it.

[quesogrande]

I like this info Semiauto, do you have more that just yourself on the Trust and does those people/ person have to be present when its established ( i.e. notarized )

For example I would put my Dad as a trustee: does he have to be present when I have the notary verify and sign the trust.

And what issue will I deal with if he lives out of state, but when he uses the NFA weapon he is in this state?

**I know this question sounds like a lawer question, but ya never know there are a lot of smart people out there anyone want to take a kick at it?

[Semiauto]

I don't want to give you legal advice, but the Willmaker software guides you through these questions. I have a revocable living trust that I have my wife, father, sister (in that order) as trustees in case I die. The trust is set up for my kids. Buy the software, and if you don't like the trust part, at least you can make a legal will with it.

[midtennchip]

Don't get me wrong, lawyers provide a good service and I'm not recommending you do one or the other. In TN, you do not have to file your Trust with the county courthouse. In some states, you do and it becomes public record. Your Trust must be notarized to be legal and it must be filled out correctly and signed. Every time I buy an NFA item, I send the Trust and Schedules in with the application for transfer. That way I know the ATF has seen the Trust and approved it, and it limits my liability in case they get a wild hair. It would be hard for them to say my Trust is invalid if they have approved multiple transfers after having seen it.

Actually, it would not be hard for the BATFE to find a trust invalid even after they have approved it. They did exactly that earlier this year (it involved a Quicken-generated trust, BTW). But there's another issue here. The BATFE does not (in fact, cannot) make a legal determination that a trust is, in fact, a legal trust in the laws of Tennessee, or any other state.

Clearly, there is a argument that, since the BATFE approved the transfer to begin with, the BATFE should not try to penalize you. However, the IRS does that on a regular basis. As a result, I would not be confident that the BATFE approval of a trust would be an absolute defense.

[Guest Gun Geek]

I say to be safe, its best to go with the lawyer, yes they charge but better safe than sorry. Pay a few hundred dollars once or have to pay another lawyer to defend you against jail, fines etc. I have had a few conversations with David G. (Gun Trust Lawyer) about some trusts that were improperly done and got some people in hot water. Its all in what kind of piece of mind you want to have.

Not that I am completely discrediting the software that does trust but... it is software. Even Turbo Tax makes big mistakes or misses stuff on occasion.

[TGO David]

PLEASE SEE MY POST IN THE ANNOUNCEMENTS FORUM REGARDING SHARING COPIES OF YOUR NFA TRUST DOCUMENTS.

[Guest HexHead]

While this may be minor benefit of using a trust, its not one of the major reasons why you should use a trust.

You might review What is a NFA Firearms Trust?

and

Why Do I Need an NFA Firearms Trust?

People might want to think twice before using the "lawyer in a box". I just saw this at that top link...

BATFE seeks to seize NFA firearms from an Invalid Quicken Trust

Joshua Prince alerted me to a blog post on a developing situation he ran across on Subguns where an individual used Quicken to attempt to create a trust for NFA purposes. Unfortunately the BATFE has now decided that his Quicken trust was invalid and is seeking to seize his MAC-11 and Silencer. He could also be subject to a prison sentence of 10 years and $250,000 in fines.

This is a very unfortunate situation that could cost the individual severely. Its important to remember that just because the ATF approves your transfer, it does not mean that you are legally in possession. This is the second situation involving invalid trusts and the ATF that we have seen this month. It looks like the ATF is beginning to look more closely at the trust documents they are receiving.

If you created a trust for NFA purchases in Quicken, Legal Zoom, or used another generic trust that was not reviewed before by a lawyer before submitting it to the BATFE, you should contact a NFA trust attorney to review your trust for validity. If you need help finding a local NFA Trust Lawyer we can help. We work with attorneys in more than 40 states including Florida Gun Trust lawyers and South Carolina NFA lawyers to help review and create valid NFA trusts.

Note: At this time the link to the subguns has been taken down because of questions. We believe this posting is authentic based upon correspondence with the individual but will update this post as the situation and our agreement with the individual (if any) allows.

Note: We have verified that the claims by the individual are true and they have been resolved by a gun trust lawyer (see the May 26th posting for more details).

[Guest HexHead]

I say to be safe, its best to go with the lawyer, yes they charge but better safe than sorry. Pay a few hundred dollars once or have to pay another lawyer to defend you against jail, fines etc. I have had a few conversations with David G. (Gun Trust Lawyer) about some trusts that were improperly done and got some people in hot water. Its all in what kind of piece of mind you want to have.

Not that I am completely discrediting the software that does trust but... it is software. Even Turbo Tax makes big mistakes or misses stuff on occasion.

Willmaker messes up a will or a garden variety living trust, worse case scenario, you (or your family) spend some extra time in probate court getting things ironed out. Mess up on a NFA trust and you could see jail time.

[Guest Gun Geek]

Right I should have specified NFA trust but that is what I was talking about.

AND +10 to David for the announcement. Dont give legal advice if you are not an attorney. It could get you in deep . Besides its just bad juju.

[quesogrande]

Sounds like most people see the trust thing as not to smart, oh well some people look good in stripes,

[TGO David]

Sounds like most people see the trust thing as not to smart, oh well some people look good in stripes,

Yeah, that's it... all of us who have gone that route are just fools.

Don't let the door hit ya.

[Jasongar8]

Sounds like most people see the trust thing as not to smart, oh well some people look good in stripes,

What makes you say this? People do trust everyday with no problems.

[Guest Gun Trust Lawyer- David G]

Generally wills are strictly construed and there is no opportunity to fix them in a probate court. Its one of the major problems with preparing your own Will.

Willmaker messes up a will or a garden variety living trust, worse case scenario, you (or your family) spend some extra time in probate court getting things ironed out. Mess up on a NFA trust and you could see jail time.