Best Rifle Round for Range and long-range

[ReeferMac]

semi autos, AR esp, tame recoil a lot more.  A good muzzle brake can cut the recoil by a very large amount, though these are more common on AR type guns you can certainly have someone ugly up a bolt gun with one.   A good recoil pad does a lot too... my beloved mauser just has a metal plate... ow.

 

Thanks again Jonnin, I actually found the various muzzle brakes on the AR's I tried to be too distracting.

I doubt I'll ugly up a classic bolt-action rifle. That'd just look weird? :lol:

 

- K
 

[Johnny Rotten]

You realize you can have 1 gun and shoot 7.62/.308 and 5.56/.223 right?

best of both worlds!!

[Garufa]

You realize you can have 1 gun and shoot 7.62/.308 and 5.56/.223 right?

best of both worlds!!

 

What kind?

[nightrunner]

Colt LE901

[10-Ring]

Thanks 10-Ring! Care to comment on which you like better, or do you have a preference for one over the other for specific tasks?

Thanks.

 

- K
 

     Absolutely!  I own neither of the rifles myself, both belong to people that I deer hunt with.  I hunt with a .270 Mauser myself and that has always been my go to deer gun though I have hunted with others.  If you want to do some deer hunting I highly recommend the .270 based on the fact that it just plain works.  In the past 15 years that I have been using .270 I have taken about 3 dozen deer.  I've lost 2, and besides those 2 I've never had a deer run more than 40 yards and at least half were dead before they hit the ground.  My deer ammo of choice is Winchester Silver tips, they aren't cheap but they work. 

     Although I love .270 for deer hunting I use it to deer hunt and check my zero before deer season.  Though it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot it is expensive to feed. For your purposes I still recommend the .308, just based on its versatility and price.  Just a possible point of interest, I've been considering a Ruger American Stainless Compact in .243 for deer hunting.  IMO the .243 is more than fine for Tennessee deer and the light weight, synthetic stock, and stainless steel appeal to me for a working gun.  I  know that you aren't really going after deer, just thought that I'd throw that out there. 

     I'll also add that I to had a 3rd degree shoulder separation in my right shoulder (primary shooting shoulder) three years ago, after the initial healing I've had no trouble with any calibers.  I broke my left clavicle 5 years ago and have a plate on it that is very close to where I shoulder a rifle so I do have to be careful with left handed shots as it does hurt if I get the butt of the gun too close to my plate. 

[Johnny Rotten]

What kind?

 

 

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/MARC901Series.aspx

 

I have a LE901 it has a different rail then the MARC, If anyone was going to SBR a rifle this should be it that rifle.

This gun can go from battle rifle to semi precision rifle to assault rifle.

And this is possible with a rdais

 

​https://youtu.be/u53ptwTs7hY

[Jonnin]

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/MARC901Series.aspx

 

I have a LE901 it has a different rail then the MARC, If anyone was going to SBR a rifle this should be it that rifle.

This gun can go from battle rifle to semi precision rifle to assault rifle.

And this is possible with a rdais

 

​https://youtu.be/u53ptwTs7hY

 

sweet as it is, for the price tag you could have 2 or 3 decent rifles for the all in one colt.   You are not gaining much here.  

[Johnny Rotten]

sweet as it is, for the price tag you could have 2 or 3 decent rifles for the all in one colt.   You are not gaining much here.

Money doesn't matter... Lol

[cj0e]

What kind of predator control are you expecting to do? Coyotes? .223 Rem will get your job done easily. Do you need the rifle for deer and 'yotes? I'd go with .243 Winchester

 

Best way to get more proficient with rifles is to spend time behind them, something with light recoil and less noise will get you out shooting more and developing fewer bad habits. Of course, if it's just noise (usually is noise+recoil) that is bothering you, double up earplugs and muffs and see how it affects you. Or shoot something suppressed with good muffs and plugs.

 

I'd budget for a .22lr or other rimfire caliber. Even an air rifle can be used as a trainer to work on breathing, trigger control, and comfort behind the rifle. Building fundamentals on the cheap is always good.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[ReeferMac]

What kind of predator control are you expecting to do? Coyotes? .223 Rem will get your job done easily. Do you need the rifle for deer and 'yotes? I'd go with .243 Winchester

 

Best way to get more proficient with rifles is to spend time behind them, something with light recoil and less noise will get you out shooting more and developing fewer bad habits. Of course, if it's just noise (usually is noise+recoil) that is bothering you, double up earplugs and muffs and see how it affects you. Or shoot something suppressed with good muffs and plugs.

 

I'd budget for a .22lr or other rimfire caliber. Even an air rifle can be used as a trainer to work on breathing, trigger control, and comfort behind the rifle. Building fundamentals on the cheap is always good.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks cj0e, that's good advice. I've got to admit I'm seriously considering the 243. I also plan on getting a .22 (my oldest can't wait!), probably a couple, in part to practice as well as handle the smaller nuisances that come around. That's one reason I'm leaning towards the larger calibre, the small-end will be covered (and we go for our handgun permit class tomorrow!) But something like the 308 deliver twice the whack when it gets there. :stick:

 

- K
 

[Jonnin]

Money doesn't matter... Lol

well yea.  Just sayin' that if you pay 500 X 3 for a gun that can mimic 3 500 dollar guns, all you have save is space :)

 

That is great info Dolomite!   I still haven't had a chance to move to 300 but every time you talk about it, I get the urge to do it.   My next rifle is shaping up to be 300 at this rate...   I had no idea it was capable of that kind of range.   

[DaveTN]

Thanks cj0e, that's good advice. I've got to admit I'm seriously considering the 243. I also plan on getting a .22 (my oldest can't wait!), probably a couple, in part to practice as well as handle the smaller nuisances that come around. That's one reason I'm leaning towards the larger calibre, the small-end will be covered (and we go for our handgun permit class tomorrow!) But something like the 308 deliver twice the whack when it gets there. :stick:
 
- K

There are many threads here about people wanting the perfect handgun or the perfect rifle in a single example. They don’t exist.

So since money is no object; (I read that in this thread somewhere ) do what many of us have done; buy them all. I have a .308 bolt action rifle because I believe that is the best choice in that platform. Choose between a bolt or AR, or between .223 and .308 in an AR? No need to, I have an AR in .223 and one in .308. I also have AR’s and full size handguns in .22 for trigger time.

I don’t become attached to guns. They are toys or tools that come and go. The used market is crazy and may not be your best bet. New prices have settled down and inventories are high. If you can get a good new price; you can put a nearly new price on it when you sell, and if you can find a buyer; moving through guns until you find what you want doesn’t cost much.

[Johnny Rotten]

A Barrett 82a1 would be great choice too.

[ReeferMac]

Well, good news bad news from the trip to Frontier Firearms today for my permit class.... They had the Rem700 and Ruger American both w/ very nice scopes hanging on the wall for me to look at in between sessions! :)

 

Loved the Remington's bolt, but the price ($700+) and the safety weren't to my liking at all?

Loved the trigger and the scope on the Ruger (not to mention it was $200 cheaper!), but the bolt action felt like it had a broken hip or something? WTF is up w/ that extra 'hitch' you've gotta do to cycle it?

I didn't get to shoot either one (I dunno if rifles qualify for their try-before-you-buy?), but I will say if I money was no object and I had to pick, I'd take the Remington? The Ruger was nice, and I could probably get used to the extra twist in the bolt action, but the Remington rifle felt more natural in my hands. I'd rather get used to that safety than the bolt.

 

Interestingly the one guy was talking w/ another customer  about the 300 blackout... he was saying the round was designed to be shot through a shorter barrel auto-rifle w/ suppressor. It was initially designed by special forces to give them the hit of a larger bullet w/o the BANG of the bigger rounds, and specifically at shorter ranges. Highly recommend standard rifle calibre's if going passed 150 yds. Shrug, I'm a newbie so I'll let those more knowledgeable than me chew on that one?

 

Thanks again for the discussion!

 

- K
 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Savage.......

[musicman]

Savage.......

Nice to hear some other small voices of reason break out amongst the din, haha!

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hey Reefer, I can PM my number to you. If you want the good, bad and ugly about selecting a rifle and caliber, especially here in east Tennessee, we can talk. I realize you are relatively new around here so I would like to offer to help you get all this figured out. Nothing worse than agonizing over what to buy only to find out what you bought might be what you wanted and not what you needed.

 

And if you don't you can do a search above because this same question gets asked pretty regularly. But as you have seen we actually do not mind answering the same questions.

 

In Tennessee, because it is so long and narrow, you can have all different kinds of terrain so one gun that works in one place will not work for other places.

 When selecting a Savage there are two basic ones to look for, ones with a rounded receiver at the back and one with a flat receiver at the back, like  Remington. The round back receivers are current production guns that have a lifetime warranty on them. They started being produced in the last ~10-12 years and are considered current production. The square backs, although nearly as good, do not have the same warranty. If you do not plan on modifying the gun, other than a barrel swap, then the square back will suit you just fine.

 

Here is some information I wrote a while back on Savage rifles.

 

Savages are known for their out of the box accuracy. Something else you can do is twist the barrel in a little more to tighten up the headspace. What that does is makes your brass last a whole lot longer which is a big consideration with expensive brass.

 

Another great thing about all Savages is you can do a barrel, and caliber, swap in about 20 minutes. And you do it without the need of a gunsmith. The barrel nut doesn't need to be tightened by some gorilla on steroids either. All it needs is to be snug. I set my headspace, snug the barrel nut to lock it in place and then I used to use a hammer and punch to lock it in place. I normally give it one whack and call it good. I have yet to have a barrel come loose. I recently picked up a dedicated wrench set for $30 and it makes life a little easier with certain barrel nuts but the punch method is perfectly acceptable.

 

With a Savage you can buy a spare bolt head in another rim diameter for ~$25 and swap it at home. To swap bolt heads on a Remington requires a new $150 bolt. $25 for a Savage vs $150 for a Remington.

 

New factory Savage barrels can be had for $125-$200 depending on profile and length. You can buy used barrels for $40-$100 depending on profile and caliber. And the best part is they can be installed at home without the need for a gunsmith. So for ~$150 you can have everything to swap to completely different caliber with a Savage. With a Remington, and most other brands, you are talking about $300+ to do the same, because of the lathe time needed to set the headspace, and that is if you stay within the same rim diameter. If you have to change rim diameters on a Remington add the $150 because you have to buy a completely separate bolt and not just the bolt head. So the cost swap to swap calibers on a Savage is <$200 vs $300+ for a Remington. If you have to use a different bolt head the cost is <$225 for a Savage and $450+ for a Remington. There is no labor cost in swapping in a Savage and once you own the barrel there are no more costs associated with swapping the barrels.

 

Aftermarket match barrels by Shilen, McGowan, Lothar Walther, PacNor and a few others are available that drop into Savages are also available for under $350 and require no fitting by a gunsmith. With a Remington you have to buy a blank which will cost $300+ then spend another $200+ having it machined, chambered and headspaced.

 

The cost for a drop in match barrel for a Savage is less than just having a barrel fitted, not including the barrel blank, to a Remington in most cases. Factory Remington take offs rarely headspace correctly so that requires lathe time and that is cost. Most factory take offs cost $100-$150 to have the headspace fixed. Because YOU set the headspace at home it doesn't cost a Savage user a single cent to install a barrel.

 

Setting the headspace on a Savage is simple. And headspace becomes an issue from too loose and not too tight. I use my sized brass as the headspace gauge on my Savages and have never had an issue and my brass lasts a very, very long time.

 

Imagine having your Savage chambered in 308 Win then 20 minutes later shooting 22-250, 338 Federal or any of the calibers that are based on the 308 Win. If you have a 308 Win then any other caliber that has a .473" rim diameter can be swapped installed in a Savage in 20 minutes or less. Or you can grab a .532" or .378" bolt head and shoot any one of the dozens of calibers that use those bolt heads. It adds about 10 minutes to the swap to swap out bolt heads. You could even have a barrel chambered in 45 ACP for something odd for the range. I built my wife a Savage in 45 ACP and it is a blast to shoot.

 

Another great thing is IF you are having a custom barrel made for your Savage the gunsmith doesn't need the action. So while you wait for your barrel you can continue to enjoy your gun.

 

Triggers are going to be similar in cost . Whether you keep the Accutrigger, which is better than most any factory Remington trigger, or you upgrade the costs are similar with a Savage. The best drop in trigger for a Savage is the Sharp Shooter Supply Competition trigger which runs $110 from Brownells. It is a completely different design than the Timney trigger or Rifle Basix or factory trigger. The SSS Competition trigger is a three lever design that results in a very nice trigger that is both reliable and consistent. It is also comparable to any "match" trigger available for any Remington.

 

Bolt handles are easily replaceable and CHEAP for the Savage. A tactical bolt handle, complete and ready to go on the bolt, costs under $40 for a Savage. And it can be swapped in under 5 minutes at home without a smith. Most places charge $100+ to put a different bolt handle on a Remington bolt. It costs $50+ to have the bolt handle threaded for a custom bolt knob on a Remington. So whether you replace the entire bolt handle or have the factory one threaded for an aftermarket knob you are looking at $100+ with a Remington. I have also seen several Remington replacement bolt handles fall off because the weld or solder wasn't good enough. It is impossible for a Savage bolt handle to fall off. So to swap bolt handles is $40 for a Savage vs $100 on a Remington.

 

Remington fans used to throw out that there were more stocks for a Remington than a Savage and that used to be true. But now any stock available for a Remington is also available for a Savage.

 

Most Savages now use magazines and have decent bottom metal as well. With Remington you are talking hundreds to have bottom metal installed.

 

And finally, the Savage barrel nut makes so much sense that Remington has finally embraced it. Their new 783 is a Savage with the Remington name. The 783 is identical, as far as design goes, to a Savage. No more of a ringing endorsement that to have your main competitor copy your design. So why not just get a 783 then? Because there is ZERO aftermarket support for it right now but I suspect once Remington guys realize the advantages of have a easily swappable barrel and bolt  face they too will embrace the barrel nut.

 

I am about to build a LONG range Savage. I will probably be using the 300 Blackout but not because it is the best choice but because it is the best choice for me.

[ReeferMac]

Nice to hear some other small voices of reason break out amongst the din, haha!

 

LOL! I'm not familiar w/ the Savage line.

Supafly brings up some good points, but is waaaay beyond my level at this stage. I appreciate the info about the mod's and aftermarket, but I think I'll stick w/ the out-of-the-box config, at least for the get-go?

 

I was reading the spec's on Cheaper-than-Dirt, and noticed there are some differences that seem significant, unfortunately I'm going to raise my hand and plead "ROOKIE" again!

 

Remington: $751

Remington model 700 SPS Special Purpose bolt-action rifle
.308 Winchester
24" carbon steel barrel
4 Round hinged floorplate magazine
Single-stage trigger
2-position safety
Black synthetic stock
Matte blued finish
1:10" twist
13.38" length of pull
1.13" drop at comb
1.38" drop at heel
R3 recoil pad
Hinged floor plate magazine
Swivel studs
Drilled and tapped
43.63" overall length
13.38" Length of pull
7.25 lbs

 

- I didn't like the 'clip' one bit on the Remington, had to load the bullets through the chamber? Guy at the store didn't know how to take the clip out.

 

Savage: $424

Savage Axis XP bolt-action rifle
.308 Winchester caliber
22" free floating barrel with Sporter taper
1:10" twist
4-round detachable box magazine
Two positions safety
Matte black synthetic stock
Stainless steel barrel
Dual pillar bedding
Drilled and tapped for scope mounts
Includes 3-9x40mm scope, mounted and bore sighted
43.875" overall length
Weighs 6.5 pounds

 

 

I've seen this repeatedly on reviews for quality guns: "Pillar bedding" and also "Free Floating", and I'm simply not knowledgeable enough to know - however they seem to  be desirable features.

They did have several Savage models on the floor at the store, I'll have to go back there and check them out! Hopefully the guy at the store knows how to work the magazines!

 

Thanks!

 

- K
 

[Dolomite_supafly]

By the way you can buy a comparable Savage, with Accutrigger AND scope for under $400. Even if you do not plan on doing anything to it the option is always there. Savages are the 10/22's of the centerfire world because they can easily be modified at home without the need of a gunsmith. And as I have said Savages are known for their out of the box accuracy.

 

And one more thing. Savages they do NOT have an active recall on their guns like Remington. You could very well buy a brand new Remington and have to send it in for warranty work before the first shot is fired. Now it should not cost you anything but nothing sucks worse than getting a brand new toy only to find out it needs to be repaired which is exactly what is going on right now with most Remington bolt actions.

 

Avoid the Axis, it is a decent gun but they do not hold their resale value and there is very little in the way of aftermarket support.

 

Buy a 1x (like model 10 or model 11 or model 16) or 11x model Savage instead of the Axis, you will be much happier. The difference between a model 10 and model 110 is the model 10 is a short action and the model 110 is a long action. So basically if the model number has two digits it is a short action and if the model number has three digits it is a long action.

[ReeferMac]

 a short action and if the model number has three digits it is a long action.

 

GREAT, now I've got another variable to worry about! :rofl:

LOL! Aside from cartridges available, is there a great difference between the two (I mean, obviously the performance of X-style cartridge will differ from Y-style... but beyond that?) Just how long the movement of the bolt travels, right?

Is it possible to put a short-action round into a long-action rifle? Assuming you can't stuff a long into a short.

Thanks again!

 

- K
 

[DaveTN]

a short action and if the model number has three digits it is a long action.
 
GREAT, now I've got another variable to worry about! :rofl:
LOL! Aside from cartridges available, is there a great difference between the two (I mean, obviously the performance of X-style cartridge will differ from Y-style... but beyond that?) Just how long the movement of the bolt travels, right?
Is it possible to put a short-action round into a long-action rifle? Assuming you can't stuff a long into a short.
Thanks again!
 
- K

Don’t worry about that; your choice there is caliber. For example, a .308 is a short action; a 30-06 is a long action. Basically there are long and short actions, and magnum variants of both.
If you go to buy parts for a Remington 700,like a stock, you will need to know if its short (SA) or long (LA)
https://support.remington.com/General_Information/Which_calibers_are_long_action_and_which_are_short_action%3F

[DaveTN]

- I didn't like the 'clip' one bit on the Remington, had to load the bullets through the chamber? Guy at the store didn't know how to take the clip out.

Most 700’s have an internal magazine that is part of the action. They come with (BDL, CDL) and without (ADL) hinged floorplates. The hinged floorplate allows you to dump the rounds out the bottom to unload. Some people don’t like having to unload an internal magazine. I’m a shooter not a hunter so I unload mine by shooting it. By Remington 700 is a target rifle, if I am doing something where I think I will need more rounds I take my .308 AR that has 20 round magazines.

You mention that the rifles you looked at had scopes on them, but you didn’t say what they were. The scope is 50% of the equipment. If you are going to shoot long range you will need a quality scope. That will easily cost as much as the rifles you are looking at.
 

I've seen this repeatedly on reviews for quality guns: "Pillar bedding" and also "Free Floating", and I'm simply not knowledgeable enough to know - however they seem to be desirable features.

This "How to" shows you what pillar bedding is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEyB9USP-cw

This "How to" shows you what free floating is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0snATO8iJw

[ReeferMac]

Thanks Dave, that kinda helps.

 

So if I get a "long action", it's chamber, bolt, etc., are all configured for longer cartridges...

 

While I realize it may not cycle perfectly, or require manually inserting the cartridge into the breach (vs. using the clip), assuming the rim diameter is the same, I can shoot long OR short style cartridges for that calibre from a long-action rifle?

 

I _do_ think I've settled on the larger cartridge (e.g. .308 vs. .243, etc.), as I believe the .22's will handle the smaller-targets fine, this rifle is really centered around being able to reach out and touch something w/ a big stick. I also _think_ I'm shying away from the 300 WinMag, as it's expensive and a lot of boom... and I'm not using it to put food on the table (yet).

 

I'm looking at the chart you helpfully posted on this Remington link:

 

https://support.remington.com/General_Information/Which_calibers_are_long_action_and_which_are_short_action%3F

 

And it got me to thinking... most of the rounds I've been kicking around, have been short action. I see the 30-06 is the only "long" action round I'm considering (while I recognize the qualities of some of the other's one mentioned, I'm really trying to focus on cheap, readily available ammunition and parts here in the US, and don't want to get into anything the least bit exotic...) However there have been so many posts mentioning all the different numbers and sizes out there I'm quite confused!

 

If I got a 30-06 rifle (long action) could it shoot .308 rounds (short action)? What about 300 Blackouts?

 

What's the advantage to long vs. short? Aside from rifle weight (is there something inherently "better" about the Long Action rounds, e.g. they (are capable of) holding more powder/bigger charge? Larger/longer/heavier bullets in the Long Action vs. Short Action, that sorta thing)

 

Would a Magnum Short-action be equiv. to a standard long-action? I guess I'm trying to decide if there is an advantage for me to select one over the other, or does one give me more flexibility (aka - Long's will load a short round, but not the other way)

 

 

GAWD, it gets dizzying very quickly!

 

If they're "All 30-Calibre", that references the width/diameter of the bullet, correct? The Brass cartridge behind it could be larger diameter (producing the "Necked Down" Style I keep hearing kicked around?) Obviously you wouldn't/couldn't load a necked-down cartridge if the chamber is too small (won't fit!), nor would you slap a tiny cartridge in a bigger chamber (the thing rattling around loose inside when it goes BOOM wouldn't turn out well, even I understand that, LOL!)

 

The Length of the bullet is independent of the diameter (but matters whether it will go down the barrel or not, the action will cycle properly, etc.) However is it physically possible (w/o blowing yourself or the gun up!) to put a short-round into a long-action rifle? If I could shoot both long and short rounds out of a long-action rifle, that would give one more flexibility in ammunition that can be used....

 

In case it's not apparent yet, one of my goals w/ this rifle is to be able to use it should things in this country turn south (no, not making a yankee-joke!) I'm worried that some day the HNIC@1600 may make it so all this stuff is not readily and easily available (though one reason I relocated to TN was I figured this would be one of the last states to comply with any of those demands...). Should that day come, what platform can I acquire that will give me the best results and most flexibility to handle as many possible situations? I don't want a large gun collection, just a few pieces, so need to be selective. I have the Shotgun already, am acquiring pistols for the wife and I now, and will get a couple .22's for my Boys. The only piece missing is a big-boom-stick to hit something at the other end of my property... Maybe I won't be able to find 308's but someone's offering to trade a box of 30-06... can I get a gun that shoots both (w/o having to buy all the extra barrels and such Supafly mentioned w/ the Savage... though I admit, that may be the solution to my problem - one gun that has many barrels).

 

 

Thanks again for all the info and discussion. I think I'm more confused than ever but I will say I'm closer to selecting a rifle! :lol:

 

- K
 

Edited October 11, 2015 by ReeferMac

[ReeferMac]

Most 700’s have an internal magazine that is part of the action. They come with (BDL, CDL) and without (ADL) hinged floorplates. The hinged floorplate allows you to dump the rounds out the bottom to unload. Some people don’t like having to unload an internal magazine. I’m a shooter not a hunter so I unload mine by shooting it. By Remington 700 is a target rifle, if I am doing something where I think I will need more rounds I take my .308 AR that has 20 round magazines.

You mention that the rifles you looked at had scopes on them, but you didn’t say what they were. The scope is 50% of the equipment. If you are going to shoot long range you will need a quality scope. That will easily cost as much as the rifles you are looking at.
 

 

Thanks Dave, will take a look at those video's w/ my next cup of coffee! :popcorn:

 

So the 700 doesn't even have a 'clip' in the way I'm thinking of it (I'd call that an internal magazine?) You have to load the bullets through the breach/action? What do you do after a few rounds, doesn't the metal get hot? I have to say, and I'll freely admit I'm 100% ignorant... but that seems like a PIA way to load a rifle?

 

The Ruger had a little plastic box that popped off the bottom (quickly replace w/ a spare and get back to shooting!). That seemed like a much better way to do it to me? I get that a bolt-action isn't a rapid-fire rifle, but all the same, it just seems cumbersome (especially given that there's a port/slot already on the bottom of the gun? Why wouldn't you load it that way?)

 

Know what you mean about the scope... Trying to avoid dragging that into the discussion right now, I'm confused enough!  :rofl: Frankly I figure I'll select a rifle w/ a fair scope pre-mounted to save me some headaches... and as my skill improves, perhaps I can justify upgrading the glass (or maybe the whole rifle?)

 

I don't know what the Remington had (but it worked well in the store...), the Ruger was the Redfield model w/ factory scope (bore sighted):

 

http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRedfield/models.html

 

Thanks again for the video's and info!

 

- K
 

Edited October 11, 2015 by ReeferMac

[Jonnin]

If I got a 30-06 rifle (long action) could it shoot .308 rounds (short action)? What about 300 Blackouts?

-- Not really.    You might be able to shoot a 308 in an 06 but it would be a bad idea.   It won't shoot quite right,  might be inaccurate, and you would want to be sure about it (the pressures might not be compatible, it could damage the gun, not sure, I THINK this one example is safe to do).   You generally want to shoot the correct ammo in the correct gun with a very few exceptions where it works OK to cross over a little.     What a long action does is allow you to swap the barrel out and change the caliber if you are into tinkering.  The long gives you more options on what you can change out to.   And 300 blackout is 223 case ... it wont work at all in an 06 or 308: the bullet is the same diameter but the back end of the case is like 1/2 the diameter roughly.  The only time the action type matters is if you plan to tinker with the gun to shoot multiple calibers... it will fire the correct ammo fine out of the box and again, its not recommended to fire other cartridges "in general" without tinkering to set up for it.

 

internal magazines hold about 5 rounds, maybe 6 generally.  You put them in by opening the bolt and loading it like a pistol mag, but its not removable.   It does not generally get that hot.. you shoot bolt actions slowly, and 5 rounds isn't enough to overheat the gun.   This design is over 100 years old, and people been using it without trouble for all that time...  I personally could stand a larger capacity but the bulk of bolt guns use this design and it is what it is.   My 308 lever only holds 5 in its *removable* mag and no one even makes a higher capacity mag for it.   Sigh.  Anyway, its not hard to load these, its easier than many pistol mags as the spring isn't hard to compress.  They slip in fast.  Also, there are tricks to speedload them,  ye olde stripper clip designs etc.  Actually most of these have a sealed bottom of the gun.  If you take the plate off down there, its for fixing the gun, not loading it.

 

 

correct, caliber (calibre in Europe of course) is the bullet diameter.   People misuse this and say dumb stuff like 44 mag is a bigger caliber than 45 acp.  This is incorrect.   Its just the bullet diameter in inches (sort of).   The issue is that how the measurement was taken varied over the centuries so you have some oddity like 303 is actually .312 or so.    Also there *are* other 30 cals besides the 308/30-06.  There are a couple of 35s and some 310-315s floating around. 

 

a short round goes into a long action as the extractor holds it in place.   Same thing works in handguns, you can put a 380 in a 9mm and the extractor will hold it in place to fire it.   This isn't good for the extractor  in a pistol but it does work. It works better in a bolt action as the back of the case is up against the back of the bolt and the extractor does not suffer (nothing moves like in a semi auto pistol).   Big rimmed cartridges the rim won't go in the chamber by design, and those stay in place by that mechanic (like a 38 sp in a 357 revolver).

 

Ok, there is a place for a sniper rifle in an end of the world scenario.   But generally I would focus on defense at shorter ranges and a higher capacity, faster shooting, easier to control weapon.   The military does not carry 5 round bolt actions anymore for a reason.   Just think on what you realistically might actually be doing with it, and how slow it is between shots, how brutal the recoil is over a few rounds, how much you need to reload, ....   You want an end of the world big boomer, that screams AR-10 which is a 308 semi auto long range rifle with detachable mags etc.   Forget the mauser style deer guns for *that* scenario.

 

From all that you have said, I can't recommend enough going to a gun show and buying yourself a used rifle on the cheap.   Shoot it for a while, get to understand the platform, and then decide on what to do next.   That or you need some range time with a buddy's rifle.  

Edited October 11, 2015 by Jonnin