Best Rifle Round for Range and long-range

[Omega]

for a bolt gun 6,5 CM. it was born winning 1000 yard matches. in a AR 15 platform 6.5 grendal all the stuff I read about it says it as good or better than a 308 out past 1000 yards, ammo for both is readily available not including wally world. 

the grendal round makes me think of a 6MM B.R.

6.5 CM is nice, if I didn't have my .270 I would jump on it.  As it is I am now wrestling with the decision of going .308 or 6.5 CM in a Rugger Precision Rifle. Right now the .308 is winning due to the amount of brass I have and bullet choices for reloading but since I have a Rem 700 in .308 the 6.5 would add a new caliber which is how I lean when looking at new guns so the wrestling match continues. 

[Grunt67]

 .308.....

[ReeferMac]

Wow, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful responses.

Thanks for the ballistics chart Runco, that does a great job of helping me visualize things. I'm going to look that up in some of the other sizes mentioned!

 

Sorry if my post was confusing for some, I appreciate the help. By "Long Range" I meant around 200 yds. Getting much beyond that will be hard even at a good range, and as I said, I'm not a hunter, so don't_really_ need to target game out beyond that. That being said, I want to acquire the firearm and become proficient at it should the need ever arise... Be it 4-legged or not. I do want to be able to impart significant energy at that distance and put the target into the dirt with the first round, hence why I was leaning to the larger size. Being a very common size, I also anticipate availability to be good across the spectrum of bulk rounds, hi-quality, reloading, etc. HOWEVER if I can get similar results from a smaller round, w/ less recoil, cheap lead, and equally 'available', then I'd certainly consider it, as the Total-Cost-Of-Ownership for such rifle will be much less... and frankly, I hope I never HAVE to use the thing (just want to be prepared in the event).

 

We are also looking at farmland/homesteads in rural settings, and I anticipate run-ins w/ Local Fauna inspecting our livestock, crops, and like issue's, so effectiveness will trump cost benefits. But lets face it, most of the lead is going to end up in the dirt-pile behind an iron-target in the back corner of my lot.

 

I don't really have a budget per se, but I don't need to impress anyone at the range, and obviously don't have the skill to warrant a $1500 rifle. I've been looking at the M1A, the Ruger American Rifle, and Remington's. I have a Mossberg Shotgun I'm less-than-impressed with. Frankly I'd rather a used Remmy than a new off-brand after that experience.

 

Admittedly I find the array of rounds confusing... I simply don't have enough experience nor know enough to select between them all (that chart really helped, though I think I like the 300 WinMag!) Is there a big difference between the various .30- rounds? Growing up in the NE I knew lots of people that hunted deer w/ 30-06 and 12-ga. slugs, but not many would attempt 200 yd. shots. Having sat in a few fields thinking about what I want this gun to do, I'd like to be able to try 300-500 yd. shots... but wouldn't expect to do it often.

 

So good knockdown power and trajectory out to 500 yds would be about the maximum? Affordable, common, easy to find/trade, etc. I was quite surprised at the situation that's come up w/ .22's. That's one reason I'm searching for a highly available round to build a rifle around. What about the various styles of bullet? Would a hollow-point of a smaller round be as effective as FMJ of a larger since more of the energy is absorbed by the target? I've heard some great things of the .243/.270's

 

What's the difference between a .308 and 300 WinMag? Bigger bang and a slightly smaller bullet = flatter trajectory?

Do the longer barrels increase accuracy significantly, or does the extra weight make aiming that much more difficult? A friend had a nice Stainless Steel Barrel rifle that he let me shoot that was very nice, but I found the regular steel easier to shoot, as the stainless was too light? However they were both short-barrels. I would like more than an 18", but don't know if I should be searching for 24"?

 

I was very grateful to John @ Fighting Sheep Dog and the folks at Windrock Shooting range for their Range-Day w/ the AR's last month. Was a great time, a lot of fun, and I learned a lot. Got to try a bunch of AR builds, including a 300-Blackout model. Nothing like a few boxes of ammo to decide if something's for you? Anyone w/ an M1A or a Ruger and some space, care to let me buy you some ammunition in the Kingston/Knoxville area, please drop me a line! No, that's not me in the avatar....

 

Thanks again!

 

- K

 

[nightrunner]

The main .30cals, .300blk, .308win, .30-06, .300winmag, they all use the same bullet .308". They just have a larger case and carry a larger powder charge.

Longer barrels do NOT increase accuracy, although many people will try to tell you that. They increase velocity, which means you have less bullet drop to account for at longer ranges. Shorter barrels are actually more accurate due to less barrel whip.

If shooting off-hand, you have to find a good balance at a good weight. A lightweight rifle is harder to hold steady and a heavy rifle is harder to hold up for very long.

As mentioned before about the .30cal rounds, the .308win would be minimum for 4-500 yards. It's good to 6-800 if you have the skill. A .30-06 is even more powerful than that. And the .300winmag even more so, at the expense of recoil of course.

Inside 200yards, any rifle caliber will do the job even 5.56/.223 is capable at that range, extend it beyond that though and you need more punch for a single round hit. Edited October 7, 2015 by nightrunner

[Jonnin]

200 isn't really long range.  Catapult type rounds (45-70, 30-30, etc) can deliver all you need at that range.  Even a magnum revolver round in a rifle (like a 44 mag lever gun) can deliver a one shot drop at 200 (barely, its pushing it, but we are establishing a perspective here so go with it).  The point remains, like I said earlier, every single rifle round is fine at 200 with the obvious exceptions of micro stuff like 22 LR.   By rifle round, I mean necked, long cased, centerfire stuff that is not generally fired from a "normal" pistol.    Which means you can focus on whatever is easy to reload and cheap to buy/make, in general.  Absolutely anything you pick is probably going to be ok at 200 yards and capable of 1 shot stops.   Ask us if you are unsure, but you would have to go far and wide to find something that weak.

 

There are significant differences, yes.  Bullet diameter (30, 25, 40, whatever) is not related at all to velocity/long range capability. Take, again, the 45-70.  It lobs a heavy bullet and is about like a catapult throwing a brick.   The big 400 cal magnum stuff can shoot flat for 2-3 times the range.  This is because the 45-70 started life as a black powder round whereas the 400 big boys are modern elephant guns...

 

You can get all you need from a much lighter recoil round than a 308 or bigger stuff (308 is medium, for reference, but it still packs a punch in a bolt gun).   243 is again a good, inexpensive alternative.   Another thing is that 308 and similar rounds are *capable* of 750 or more yards one shot stops.   You can cut their power down to reduce recoil in your handloads and have an accurate, fine cartridge that will do the job at 200 yards --- saves money on powder too, and your rifle still supports the "real thing" if you want to go farther out.   I do this with my mauser and my 308 lever rifles... light loads at a shorter range, deadly accurate, can shoot it all day without being sore tomorrow.     You CANNOT do this in a semi auto easily ...  if you buy a semi, you have to shoot full rounds or tamper with it or it won't cycle and feed etc.

 

 

No, 1000+ yard one stop shots are quite doable with some rounds.  308 can "sorta kinda" do that much.  500 is not even close to a maximum, though hitting stuff that far out takes gear and skill.  500 is a good stopping point for non expert shooters with typical equipment, but that isn't the caliber, that's the scope/shooter/package talking.   I can barely hit a stationary target at that range...

 

style of bullet helps.  Aerodynamics is important at the mega long ranges.  Boat tails have a positive effect.  Hollow points and soft points do what they do but are often not aerodynamic.   Some rifles the bullets tumble by design and expanding ammo is not required.  

 

300 winmag is significantly more recoil, longer range, harder hitting etc than 308.   Um, trajectory is tied to bullet weight vs velocity.  In a nutshell, the basic physics is that... if you drop a bullet and shoot one parallel to the earth, they will hit the ground at the same time.   The sideways (shooting) velocity has no impact on the gravity vector (when parallel).   If you shoot upwards some, you get an initial velocity against gravity that has an effect, etc.   So you have until the bullet hits the ground... to cover X distance.  The bigger you want X to be, the faster it needs to be moving.   This is what makes a trajectory "flat" ... pure velocity.   Lighter bullets can be pushed faster in the same caliber.  Different calibers, not as easy to compare.   But a light bullet in a 308 will go farther and flatter than a heavy bullet in a 308 (the 243 is a very light and smaller bullet in a 308 case...).   The 300 winmag with a light bullet will go even farther and flatter.  Etc.

 

Barrel length has an effect, you get slightly more velocity from longer barrels.   There are other effects as well, longer is typically better up to a point.

 

 

Hopefully that addressed some of your questions.

[10-Ring]

I have shot the Ruger American in .270 and .308, I was very impressed with it for the money and would recommend it for what you are looking for.  If you are looking to stay on targets inside 200 yards I think that the 7.62x39 is a good choice, you can buy cheap ammo for plinking and get some good stuff for "other occasions."  BTW 7.62 comes out to .30 caliber in case you didn't know.  Not sure if the American comes chambered in 7.62x39 or not.  I think a SKS is a great choice for what you want to do, I have one and love it!  They can be had for $300 or even a little under if you are patient.  Omega had one in the classifieds here last week that looked to be a really nice rifle. 

[ReeferMac]

Lighter bullets can be pushed faster in the same caliber.  Different calibers, not as easy to compare.   But a light bullet in a 308 will go farther and flatter than a heavy bullet in a 308 (the 243 is a very light and smaller bullet in a 308 case...).   The 300 winmag with a light bullet will go even farther and flatter.  Etc.

 

Barrel length has an effect, you get slightly more velocity from longer barrels.   There are other effects as well, longer is typically better up to a point.

 

 

Hopefully that addressed some of your questions.

 

Thanks Jonnin, that does help....

Now if I can recall from HS Physics class, P=M*V, where M=Mass and V=Velocity... so I can plot a chart easily enough comparing the weights vs. velocity's, etc., and see where the 'sweet spot for me' is for whatever round I decide to go with? And that will describe the momentum, or stopping power, of said round at said distance? (heavier round will have more power, but at a cost to velocity, which affects trajectory at different ranges).

 

I found some ballistics calculators on Gundata.org, and some good articles as well (though they suggest the 270 over 30-06!)

 

Thanks again!

 

- K
 

[ReeferMac]

I have shot the Ruger American in .270 and .308, I was very impressed with it for the money and would recommend it for what you are looking for.

 

 

Thanks 10-Ring! Care to comment on which you like better, or do you have a preference for one over the other for specific tasks?

Thanks.

 

- K
 

[jtmaze]

I can't believe no one is going to throw the FN FAL out there. Shoots .308 and a blast to shoot. Somewhat heavier than an AR10, but can't be beat.

[nightrunner]

.270win is simply a .30-06 necked down to a .277" cal bullet. Therefore is will have a slightly lighter weight bullet yet higher velocity.

.270win is an excellent round to hunt with at longer ranges without the excessive blast and recoil of true magnums.

[Pete123]

200 isn't really long range.  Catapult type rounds (45-70, 30-30, etc) can deliver all you need at that range.  Even a magnum revolver round in a rifle (like a 44 mag lever gun) can deliver a one shot drop at 200 (barely, its pushing it, but we are establishing a perspective here so go with it).  The point remains, like I said earlier, every single rifle round is fine at 200 with the obvious exceptions of micro stuff like 22 LR.   By rifle round, I mean necked, long cased, centerfire stuff that is not generally fired from a "normal" pistol.    Which means you can focus on whatever is easy to reload and cheap to buy/make, in general.  Absolutely anything you pick is probably going to be ok at 200 yards and capable of 1 shot stops.   Ask us if you are unsure, but you would have to go far and wide to find something that weak.

 

There are significant differences, yes.  Bullet diameter (30, 25, 40, whatever) is not related at all to velocity/long range capability. Take, again, the 45-70.  It lobs a heavy bullet and is about like a catapult throwing a brick.   The big 400 cal magnum stuff can shoot flat for 2-3 times the range.  This is because the 45-70 started life as a black powder round whereas the 400 big boys are modern elephant guns...

 

You can get all you need from a much lighter recoil round than a 308 or bigger stuff (308 is medium, for reference, but it still packs a punch in a bolt gun).   243 is again a good, inexpensive alternative.   Another thing is that 308 and similar rounds are *capable* of 750 or more yards one shot stops.   You can cut their power down to reduce recoil in your handloads and have an accurate, fine cartridge that will do the job at 200 yards --- saves money on powder too, and your rifle still supports the "real thing" if you want to go farther out.   I do this with my mauser and my 308 lever rifles... light loads at a shorter range, deadly accurate, can shoot it all day without being sore tomorrow.     You CANNOT do this in a semi auto easily ...  if you buy a semi, you have to shoot full rounds or tamper with it or it won't cycle and feed etc.

 

 

No, 1000+ yard one stop shots are quite doable with some rounds.  308 can "sorta kinda" do that much.  500 is not even close to a maximum, though hitting stuff that far out takes gear and skill.  500 is a good stopping point for non expert shooters with typical equipment, but that isn't the caliber, that's the scope/shooter/package talking.   I can barely hit a stationary target at that range...

 

style of bullet helps.  Aerodynamics is important at the mega long ranges.  Boat tails have a positive effect.  Hollow points and soft points do what they do but are often not aerodynamic.   Some rifles the bullets tumble by design and expanding ammo is not required.  

 

300 winmag is significantly more recoil, longer range, harder hitting etc than 308.   Um, trajectory is tied to bullet weight vs velocity.  In a nutshell, the basic physics is that... if you drop a bullet and shoot one parallel to the earth, they will hit the ground at the same time.   The sideways (shooting) velocity has no impact on the gravity vector (when parallel).   If you shoot upwards some, you get an initial velocity against gravity that has an effect, etc.   So you have until the bullet hits the ground... to cover X distance.  The bigger you want X to be, the faster it needs to be moving.   This is what makes a trajectory "flat" ... pure velocity.   Lighter bullets can be pushed faster in the same caliber.  Different calibers, not as easy to compare.   But a light bullet in a 308 will go farther and flatter than a heavy bullet in a 308 (the 243 is a very light and smaller bullet in a 308 case...).   The 300 winmag with a light bullet will go even farther and flatter.  Etc.

 

Barrel length has an effect, you get slightly more velocity from longer barrels.   There are other effects as well, longer is typically better up to a point.

 

 

Hopefully that addressed some of your questions.

 

ReeferMac,

 

Sharing info like the post I'm quoting is beyond my knowledge level.  Having said that, I have input that should be really valuable, in large part due to my lack of knowledge.

 

I got back into shooting about a year ago after a 25 year break.  

 

Here are some things I found:

 

It isn't possible to really know what you want without a lot of experience.  I've purchased and sold a lot of firearms which I thought were just what I wanted when I bought them.  Buying and selling guns is expensive and time consuming.

 

In light of that, my thought would be to go toward the less expensive side while you figure out what is important.

 

Some great choices that are less expensive are the Ruger American, Savage bolt actions.  I believe that Remington has a lower priced bold action.

 

I went with a Savage because they are well thought of and you can get an adjustable trigger for a fairly small price increase.  I really like good triggers.  I also went with 308.  At the time 308 seemed perfect.  What I didn't realize is that I have a partially torn rotator cuff on my shooting shoulder and the recoil from the 308 has become an issue.  

 

I'll leave it to the experts to share about what they know about.

 

Best of luck.  I've found that deciding and researching what to buy is half the fun.

[Jonnin]

Thanks Jonnin, that does help....

Now if I can recall from HS Physics class, P=M*V, where M=Mass and V=Velocity... so I can plot a chart easily enough comparing the weights vs. velocity's, etc., and see where the 'sweet spot for me' is for whatever round I decide to go with? And that will describe the momentum, or stopping power, of said round at said distance? (heavier round will have more power, but at a cost to velocity, which affects trajectory at different ranges).

 

I found some ballistics calculators on Gundata.org, and some good articles as well (though they suggest the 270 over 30-06!)

 

Thanks again!

 

- K
 

 

well, momentum (MV) is mostly a measure of how hard an object is to stop, though it is conserved and useful to derive other values when its all you have.

energy is MVV  --- this is why light weight, high velocity rounds can be so devastating, energy is a measure of "potential to do other physics"  when it is transferred, for example when an object is struck and it moves, that is a transfer of energy.  Energy is hard to explain, but more is better.

 

Stopping power is not a "thing".    Momentum and energy are "things".   People argue, nonstop like, about which is more important.  Just remember that momentum is how hard it is to stop (penetration!) and energy is damage done.  That isn't exact, but you can see, you need BOTH and bigger values is "better" when trying to invent a definition of "stopping power".

 

There is also a 25-06, another version of the necked down 30-06.  I have one of those.  Ive shot a 270 but not enough to talk about it.   The 25 is pretty cool, though, a fast moving flat little thing.  Ive not shot the 25 enough either, to be honest, its mostly a keepsake gun.

 

Use the ballistics calculators to see trajectories and esp examine bullet drop at various yards.  That is how flat it shoots (don't even try to compute how flat it shoots, a visual chart is worth a weeks' worth of math here).   The quick momentum calculation is handy for comparing penetration.   Most ballistics stuff computes energy for you.   

 

243, 270 sound like your commonplace choices for a flat shooting gun, but anything you get that isn't a catapult relic from black powder era is going to shoot "flat enough" at 200 yards anyway, you can barely tell the difference, talking less than an inch of drop for most of them.

 

Anyway, momentum is handy but its not your only number to use... compare at least energy, momentum, velocity, and trajectory to get an idea of the relative comparison between things.

 

7.6 vs caliber...  I get confused here.  I know that eurogoobers call the 32 acp 7.65 mm.   I know that my 7.65 argy shoots somewhere in the .31 to .312 diameter.  Somewhere, along the way, someone got a bad set of calipers when measuring the ammo in the 7mm family.  The actual conversion is .3125 caliber = 7.94 mm according to wiki for the 32 acp.  You can see from there that someone's measuring tools were on the fritz.   Ill leave you to it from there, just thought I would mention how weird some of the numbers can be on ammo, esp older rounds. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Jonnin

[ReeferMac]

Best of luck.  I've found that deciding and researching what to buy is half the fun.

Ain't that the truth?!

Thanks! I'm sorry to hear the recoil was an issue. Separated my Right Shoulder as well, so far it hasn't proven a problem w/ shooting.

 

Playing around w/ the ballistics charts on gundata.org, I see why the 300WinMag is popular, sucker's cooking coming out of the barrel. The 30-06 and .308 compare favorably,  but both are below the WinMag. The 270 Magnum charts favorably, but I've encountered Magnum shells trap-shooting, and I don't know if that's the best option for me? Recoil isn't a problem (I'm 250 lbs) so much as the BANG. It's hard to hold still.

 

Perhaps a stupid question, but since they're "All 30-cal" rounds, is there a gun that shoots more than one variety? What about like w/ the 300's? There's about 20-different 'sizes' or 300 rifle rounds... but each gun will only fire one type? This brings me back to availability, cost, parts, supplies, etc. where I think I'm willing to trade off a foot of drop @ 300 yds. for 50-cents per click and Walmart-Availability? My aim isn't that steady yet anyways! :LOL:

 

If I selected a 270-rifle, could it fire regular as well as 270 (short) magnums? And WTF is the 270 Weatherby, and why does it cost 2-3 bucks a shell?

 

I'm leaning towards purchasing a used gun initially, to help save money and find out what works best for me. I've found the folks at Frontier Firearms here in Kingston to be pretty helpful that way, and they offer 'try-before-you-buy', which is really nice. I was able to try one of their Springfield XD-M's for a reasonable price last week!

 

Thanks again!

 

- K
 

[ReeferMac]

Thanks Jonnin, my old boss back in NY had just gotten a 243 before I moved here and he was smitten. Light as a feather to shoot, and w/ the right load, sucker's moving faster at 200 yds than some larger rounds are out of the muzzle. I see the appeal. Still, I keep coming back to the idea of an affordable, common, easily sourced round. I don't want anything exotic or hard to find. Once I get more familiar and experienced, I can experiment with custom loads, and really get it dialed in. That being said, 2nd most important quality, I think is the smack it delivers when it lands, and that keeps brining back the bigger rounds. Assuming the operator will be able to improve on his errors ( :wave: ), that makes cheap a #3.

I think I'd like to try a 308 and a 300 WinMag side-by-side. W/ reloading I should be able to bring the per-click charge down to where it's reasonable to go to the range, and certainly don't want to be sitting there in the field one day watching my target run away while I wished I wasn't so damned cheap!

 

- K
 

[musicman]

Don't confuse 44 special and 44 mag, and 38 special and 357 mag with standard and magun rifle calibers. No interchangeability with the rifle stuff. The cases are different, and you WILL blow up the gun, and maybe your hand.

Only shoot what is listed on the barrel. The only common exceptions are .223/5.56 and .308/7.62x51. You can shoot .223 in a 5.56, but not the reverse. You can shoot 7.62x51 in a .308, but not the reverse.

[Jonnin]

Thanks Jonnin, my old boss back in NY had just gotten a 243 before I moved here and he was smitten. Light as a feather to shoot, and w/ the right load, sucker's moving faster at 200 yds than some larger rounds are out of the muzzle. I see the appeal. Still, I keep coming back to the idea of an affordable, common, easily sourced round. I don't want anything exotic or hard to find. Once I get more familiar and experienced, I can experiment with custom loads, and really get it dialed in. That being said, 2nd most important quality, I think is the smack it delivers when it lands, and that keeps brining back the bigger rounds. Assuming the operator will be able to improve on his errors ( :wave: ), that makes cheap a #3.

I think I'd like to try a 308 and a 300 WinMag side-by-side. W/ reloading I should be able to bring the per-click charge down to where it's reasonable to go to the range, and certainly don't want to be sitting there in the field one day watching my target run away while I wished I wasn't so damned cheap!

 

- K
 

 

243 IS very common and affordable and can take a deer at 300 yards easily which isn't even likely in most of TN due to the tree density where deer live.  But if you want bigger, then you want bigger --- Im getting older and the amusement of a bruised shoulder is losing some appeal but I still enjoy the thumpers in moderation.   Trying them out side by side is a great idea.

[DaveTN]

Maybe some forum members in your area will let you try a .308 and 300WM. Shooting them both is a good idea, but also buy the ammo. Buy two boxes of each, and then shoot all four boxes at the range in one sitting. A target shooter might go through 60 or more rounds in one rifle at the range; I know I have on many occasions. After you have fired 40 rounds through each rifle you will have a better understanding of whether or not that is what you want.

You are pretty far from me, but I would supply a Remington 700 VLS in .308 and a 03 Springfield in 30-06, but I don’t have a 300WM.


No way would I want a 300 Win Mag for a range toy.

Edited October 8, 2015 by DaveTN

[Pete123]

ReeferMac,

 

You mentioned dislocating your right shoulder.  Is that the one you shoot with?  My comment will be general because there are different kinds of shoulder dislocation and the same type can cause less or more damage.

 

Recoil from a 308 gives me trouble after 10-20 shots, and that is with me using a fancy schmanzy recoil pad.  I haven't shot a 300WM, though I suspect you are getting into real recoil with that.

 

The more experienced folks may need to correct me, though I don't think you need a 300 WM unless you are moving past 500 yards.  I would imagine that shooting a white tail deer with one would ruin a lot of the meat.

[ReeferMac]

Thanks Guys!
I've been able to put 30-40 rds. off my 20 ga. w/o any problems, Pete. However I appreciate the heads-up, it is something I keep in the back of my mind as I get older. Good advice Dave, I put about 50-60 rds through the AR's, and that was enough to convince me.

 

- K
 

[ARO Matt]

ReeferMac,

 

You mentioned dislocating your right shoulder.  Is that the one you shoot with?  My comment will be general because there are different kinds of shoulder dislocation and the same type can cause less or more damage.

 

Recoil from a 308 gives me trouble after 10-20 shots, and that is with me using a fancy schmanzy recoil pad.  I haven't shot a 300WM, though I suspect you are getting into real recoil with that.

 

The more experienced folks may need to correct me, though I don't think you need a 300 WM unless you are moving past 500 yards.  I would imagine that shooting a white tail deer with one would ruin a lot of the meat.

 

The recoil difference between a .308 and .300WM is quite noticeable.  Then there is the additional expense of shooting .300WM, reloading or not. Then you have to talk about expensive glass to get the potential out of the setup anyway.  You bring up a point that a lot of people tend to overlook in the "which do I buy" conversation--NEED.  Frankly, most woods hunters in TN don't need a magnum rifle caliber.  Hell, probably don't need even .308 or 30-06 depending on the range they can shoot in their hunting spots.  Now, people want what they want for whatever reason, and I'm completely on board with getting what you want because it's what you want.  But to narrow down your choices you have to decide if you're getting what you NEED or what you want.  Around here a .308 is more than enough for most things, and frankly I'm leaving the .308 in the safe this year for gun season.  Most of my hunting areas I can only see about 150 yards at most so I'm sticking to a lesser caliber.  For everything I've read from the OP I'm surprised no one has mentioned a 6.8 SPC bolt gun (since he doesn't care for the AR platform).  That or a .30-30 lever gun gets you to 200 yards, and the 6.8 will push out past that.  Neither one has much recoil and are cheaper to shoot, relatively speaking.

[Omega]

The recoil difference between a .308 and .300WM is quite noticeable.  Then there is the additional expense of shooting .300WM, reloading or not. Then you have to talk about expensive glass to get the potential out of the setup anyway.  You bring up a point that a lot of people tend to overlook in the "which do I buy" conversation--NEED.  Frankly, most woods hunters in TN don't need a magnum rifle caliber.  Hell, probably don't need even .308 or 30-06 depending on the range they can shoot in their hunting spots.  Now, people want what they want for whatever reason, and I'm completely on board with getting what you want because it's what you want.  But to narrow down your choices you have to decide if you're getting what you NEED or what you want.  Around here a .308 is more than enough for most things, and frankly I'm leaving the .308 in the safe this year for gun season.  Most of my hunting areas I can only see about 150 yards at most so I'm sticking to a lesser caliber.  For everything I've read from the OP I'm surprised no one has mentioned a 6.8 SPC bolt gun (since he doesn't care for the AR platform).  That or a .30-30 lever gun gets you to 200 yards, and the 6.8 will push out past that.  Neither one has much recoil and are cheaper to shoot, relatively speaking.

I may be biased by the experience I had with a 30-30 but there is no way I can recommend a 30-30 for shots beyond 100 yards; the drop on that thing is horrendous.  If hunting in the brush then maybe because that 30 cal will punch through most greenery but in the open, I would rather have something better.  The 6.8 is a nice round, but a .270 is better IMHO, just more rounds available for it commercially.   I almost bought one because the had a nice upper for cheap, but then looked up the facts and decided against it.  Mainly due to the fact that you needed a special BCG and mags; researching that caliber is what got me into the 300Blk.

[Jonnin]

you can lighten the projectile of a 30-30 and get a bit more range.  Its classic load is pretty bad drop, though.  

 

A 20 ga is fairly weak compared to a large rifle.    Youll see when you try them out.   Also how you shoot matters.  I shoot a lot of bench rested and a 308 lever or bolt is a bit rough with full loads shot back to back over a couple of boxes.    The same guns standing up is much more tolerable.   Again, though, you can easily cut the recoil way down and still do a 200 yard shot.  

 

 

I wouldn't even shoot a 300 mag or anything bigger (full power loads) bench rested in a bolt gun.   Not now.  I might have when I was 25.

 

semi autos, AR esp, tame recoil a lot more.  A good muzzle brake can cut the recoil by a very large amount, though these are more common on AR type guns you can certainly have someone ugly up a bolt gun with one.   A good recoil pad does a lot too... my beloved mauser just has a metal plate... ow.

[MrBrian]

Swedish Ljungman in 6.5x55mm

[ARO Matt]

Swedish Ljungman in 6.5x55mm

 

6.5x55 Swede is supposed to be a great round too, although I have no personal experience with it...yet.

[MrBrian]

6.5x55 Swede is supposed to be a great round too, although I have no personal experience with it...yet.

It has become one of my favorite cartridges, and I can reload it for right at 50 cents a shot