357 SIG

[CommsNBombs]

Was looking to get everyone's insight into this round.

Not a whole lot available online - its either caliber cultists or a history lesson. A few Glock 31/32/33 videos but not much else.

One thing I noticed is that I can actually find it in wally world and Academy, unlike 10mm which I have to buy at gouged prices from my LGS.

So from a reloading perspective how odd is it? I know it head spaces on the shoulder, but that doesnt give me much on actually doing it.

Anyone who has it, do you like it? I will probably get a Glock 32 for it. Even though it may be cheaper to get a used Glock 23 and slap a Lone Wolf barrel in it - has anyone done this?

Any other insight is also a plus. I dont really NEED one but I like diversification and I am a Glock enthusiast now.

[E4 No More]

I've been kicking around the idea of getting a .357 barrel for my P320, so I'm interested in the feedback too. Getting a couple hundred fps out of it over a 9mm is appealing.

[nightrunner]

I have had a Glock 33 and a Sig P229 in it.

After I traded into the G33, I read online about how brutal and snappy the round was in the small G33. I simply didn't have that experience with it. I have large hands and didn't have any grip extensions on it and had no problem holding onto it. Didn't really notice any more recoil than any other sub-45 caliber pistols I'd shot.

Admittedly, I didn't shoot my P229 very much but it was an older German made one and I really liked it. Carried both at times.

It's basically a .357mag in a .40s&w platform. I never attempted to reload it.

Bottleneck cartridge promotes more reliable feeding. That along with the improved penetration is why THP carries it.

.357sig is what the tactical kool kids carry ;)

I got away from it simply to consolidate calibers, I still think it's an awesome round. Edited October 5, 2015 by nightrunner

[Patton]

It has a strong following with law enforcement in TN and is still gaining popularity. Honestly, it is slightly more difficult than 9/40/45 to reload. Bullet setback and achieving proper neck tension is the issue. Reviews are mixed in general. Some say the recoil is like 40 and some say it is more like a .45. Some friends of mine with some federal agencies say when it came down to all the service calibers people shot higher scores with .357 over even 9mm. As you apparently know, you are not stuck with keeping a .357 Sig gun in just that caliber.

[CommsNBombs]

I have had a Glock 33 and a Sig P229 in it.

After I traded into the G33, I read online about how brutal and snappy the round was in the small G33. I simply didn't have that experience with it. I have large hands and didn't have any grip extensions on it and had no problem holding onto it. Didn't really notice any more recoil than any other sub-45 caliber pistols I'd shot.

Admittedly, I didn't shoot my P229 very much but it was an older German made one and I really liked it. Carried both at times.

It's basically a .357mag in a .40s&w platform. I never attempted to reload it.

Bottleneck cartridge promotes more reliable feeding. That along with the improved penetration is why THP carries it.

.357sig is what the tactical kool kids carry ;)

I got away from it simply to consolidate calibers, I still think it's an awesome round.

I found a lot of people online hype up felt recoil - I was firing full house 10mm out of my Gen 3 Glock 29 and it wasnt any worse than +P. 45s. I enjoyed it.

On the whole does .357 SIG factory ammo stay consistent or is it like 10mm where some are loaded like 40 and some are loaded like a death ray?

Did you ever experience any .357 bullets getting pushed in? That was another internet rumor, if you keep chambering and clearing it on your EDC it would get pushed back and potentially explode. Sounds like rubbish but it is worth asking.

Thanks!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I was an early adopter of the caliber and carried a Glock in .357 Sig for a couple of years. The recoil in the full size guns is not bad...the muzzle blast in the sub compacts is deafening.... especially indoors. The biggest negative is probably the price of ammo and the long term wear on guns. The New Mexico State Police adopted the Glock 31 in the late 90s (about 98 to 99) and were looking for a new gun inside of 5 years. The Secret Service has been using it for almost 20 years now, but even they complain about the wear and tear on the guns (Sig 229) from the higher pressure round. I eventually switched to 9mm +p as my EDC and have not looked back. I still have the .357s but I rarely carry them. 

 

The reason I switched is because I am not as concerned with shooting through auto body as the Secret Service or the THP (Tennessee Highway Patrol) is. The extra energy will allow for better penetration of hard objects like auto body but fortunately I'm not tasked with pulling over people who don't want to be pulled over.... And I'm just not convinced (due to the realities of physics) that a difference of 100 lbs of energy matters much when a person is hit with it.....especially when an adult male who knows how to throw a punch with their body weight behind it  can punch you with twice the energy of any duty handgun round....  now when we compare rifle rounds (1500 to 3000 lbs of energy)to pistol rounds it makes a difference...but comparing 400 lbs to 500 lbs....is like arguing who hits harder...an 11 year old or a 12 year old. 

 

As to bullet setback......that can be a disaster when you take a 40,000 PSI round and jam the bullet back in the case and up the pressure to over 50,000....CCI discontinued their Blazer Aluminum case .357 Sig because of that. You can't crimp aluminum as tight as brass and they had issues with bullet setback. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Refleks]

I like the caliber. I was going to get an M&P40c and a conversion barrel but ended up going 9mm for ammo commonality and price.

You could always go whole hog and get 9x25 Dillon ;)

[nightrunner]

I have had some .45acp have bullet setback which I noticed and did not fire it was so bad. Low grade 230gr FMJ and a Charles Daly officers 1911.

Never experienced it with the .357sig, but I didn't chamber the same round a bunch of times maybe 2-3 at most. Ammo was either WWB, S&B, Speer GD, or Hornady XTP.

I'd say the range of ammo is more like 9mm varies, you have range ammo and hot JHPs. There isn't really a market or need for weak .357sig loads. If you want less get a 9mm, more get a .45

Less ammo options in .357sig, I used XTP when I could find it and Speer Gold Dot as a backup if I couldn't find XTP.

I tell you what though a G33 with 10 124gr XTPs is a whole lot of firepower in a small package.

If anyone says .357sig is fading away, that's BS. It ain't going anywhere. For one around here you have THP, country wide, I know there are other state and local police issuing it. I'm pretty sure at least one federal agency issues it as well.

[nightrunner]

You could always go whole hog and get 9x25 Dillon ;)

9x25 is just a 10mm necked down to 9mm. Needless to say, you can get some rather spectacular velocity out of it :)

[Patton]

Something else, not all .355 bullets will work. You have to find some that have a high enough shoulder for tension.

I really haven't shot that many guns in .357 Sig but I was impressed by the ones that I have shot. I didn't find the recoil in the Glock 32 any different than a 19 or 23.

[runco]

Lets see, I have a P229, and a Glock 32 and 33.  I love the round, love the ballistics, and the recoil is snappy.  Reloading is a pain.  That dang neck makes it a challenge over a straight wall. 

 

Regarding the ballistics, do some research on why many Police dept went the way of the 357 Sig.  If I ran across a 33 at a throw away price, I probably would add to my normal rotation. 

 

Cost to shoot, I give it a D. 

[CommsNBombs]

Something else, not all .355 bullets will work. You have to find some that have a high enough shoulder for tension.

I really haven't shot that many guns in .357 Sig but I was impressed by the ones that I have shot. I didn't find the recoil in the Glock 32 any different than a 19 or 23.

Ill probably be sticking with Hornady XTP/HAP and Missouri Bullet Company coated offerings.

Any "style" of .355" thats gets a mention to stay away from?

Thanks all for the extra feedback. Like I said it is more of a want than a need, ballistics and physics aside I wanted a fun round to play with and a reloading challenge.

Trying to raise some funds to afford a 20SF and one of the three .357 Sig glocks on the classifieds board lol.

I was looking at 9x25 Dillon but that one is almost too much of a wildcat for me. And it does not seem cost effective to reload for at all lol.

Anyone ever hunt with a .357 SIG? A buddy of mine has a 200 acre farm and since I dont have any decent rifles Ill try to smash deer with a 10mm or 357 lol

[Jonnin]

Its very close to actual 357 mag.  Which is one of the most versatile rounds ever created -- you can shoot anything from below 90 grains all the way up to a bit over 200.   The autos won't cycle on weak loads so its not quite as friendly as a 357 revolver for variety but you still have a huge range of play.  And as noted above some projectiles don't work as well.

 

 

That said, its a glorified 9mm.  In the grand scheme of things, the difference between a 9mm+P and a 357 sig are rather slight.  Its there, but is it worth the hard to find brass, aggravation of a necked case, etc?   To me it wasn't worth it.  

Edited October 6, 2015 by Jonnin

[hipower]

Can't give you any great information on the .357 Sig round, only my impressions.

 

I owned a Glock 32 for a while. Very accurate round. It really did seem to make me a better shooter. But I did find the muzzle blast to be pretty potent, and the felt recoil was a bit too sharp and snappy( highly accurate and descriptive terms, aren't they) for my taste. 

 

I traded the gun on a Sig P220 Dark Elite and found I actually preferred the Glock. Who knows? I'm weird.

 

I now have a G24 in 40, and bought a LW.357 barrel for it. I find the round is still a bit much for me, but the noise, smoke, and fireball from it on a dimly lit range make it worthwhile. 

 

I don't shoot it much, but if I ever need to stop a ghetto cruiser...I'm ready.

[Patton]

Regarding the ballistics, do some research on why many Police dept went the way of the 357 Sig. If I ran across a 33 at a throw away price, I probably would add to my normal rotation.

Cost to shoot, I give it a D.

Who went away from .357 Sig besides NC Highway Patrol? Texas DPS changed their minds and stuck with them. I can't think of a single agency in TN that has went away fom it. It seems like there is twice as many departments using it in TN as there was just 5 years ago.

Also, since someone mentioned federal agencies, the only ones I know of with .357 Sig are investigators with the Social Security Adminstartion, the USSS, and FAM. I am thinking US Postal Inspectors may have them as well. All of them are Sigs also. Edited October 6, 2015 by Patton

[runco]

Who went away from .357 Sig besides NC Highway Patrol? Texas DPS changed their minds and stuck with them. I can't think of a single agency in TN that has went away fom it. It seems like there is twice as many departments using it in TN as there was just 5 years ago.

Also, since someone mentioned federal agencies, the only ones I know of with .357 Sig are investigators with the Social Security Adminstartion, the USSS, and FAM. I am thinking US Postal Inspectors may have them as well. All of them are Sigs also.

Went the way of, not went away from. 

[runco]

BTW, I think this is the coolest oxymoron, you don't see many of these with "Sig" on slide, mostly only 357:

 

[url=http://s963.photobucket.com/user/runco0318/media/oxy%20moron_zpscrjfgsck.jpg.html][/URL]

Edited October 6, 2015 by Runco

[nightrunner]

As far as cost to shoot, that was another thing I found false in my experience. When I had mine ammo was about the same as .45acp to shoot, both mid grade range ammo and premium JHPs.

[CommsNBombs]

As far as cost to shoot, that was another thing I found false in my experience. When I had mine ammo was about the same as .45acp to shoot, both mid grade range ammo and premium JHPs.

It will be a small time investment for me - I just want at least 500 pcs of brass and Im good.

The Remington UMC offerings were 29 for a box of 50 on roll back at walmart.

[Jonnin]

It will be a small time investment for me - I just want at least 500 pcs of brass and Im good.

The Remington UMC offerings were 29 for a box of 50 on roll back at walmart.

 

except its necked.   Necked cases just don't last like straight pistol...  youll have to replace them, probably trim them, etc.   And its a high pressure round, which is harder on the brass.   I would expect the brass to wear out fastish.

[CommsNBombs]

except its necked. Necked cases just don't last like straight pistol... youll have to replace them, probably trim them, etc. And its a high pressure round, which is harder on the brass. I would expect the brass to wear out fastish.

Woah, did not take that into consideration.

What kind of life can I expect from it? 5 uses?

[Jonnin]

Woah, did not take that into consideration.

What kind of life can I expect from it? 5 uses?

 

I don't know the average lifespan.  I would expect more than 5, but not more than 10, but I am guessing here.

[leroy]

Comms.... Gonna try ta answer your questions with stuff directly from your questions below; but first a bit of background.... Ive shot and reloaded for the sig for several years... Got a Glock 33 and a "compact" (...4 inch bbl...) glock with standard glock barrels... Here goes:

 

Was looking to get everyone's insight into this round.

Not a whole lot available online - its either caliber cultists or a history lesson. A few Glock 31/32/33 videos but not much else.

One thing I noticed is that I can actually find it in wally world and Academy, unlike 10mm which I have to buy at gouged prices from my LGS.

So from a reloading perspective how odd is it? I know it head spaces on the shoulder, but that doesnt give me much on actually doing it.

 

Ive found it not to be a problem to reload for... I use dillon dies and a standard press... Ya can find 357 sig brass pretty cheap... The only issue's ive had with the brass is the need to ream some of the flash holes in the Speer brass (...i think...) the decapping pin on the die will sometimes hang in the flash hole, but after reaming them they are ok... I cant tell any difference between reloading the sig and anything else... I would just make sure i either used the barrel from the pistol i was usin for the "go no go" gage for the rounds or just buy a dillon or other brand oal length loaded round gage to check the rounds in...

 

We used a hot load of AA #9 and the pistol(s) shoot very accurately with the load... We also used the sig specific 124 grain bullet (..cant remember the brand...) probably speer or hornady... Sig brass is relatively cheap reprocessed from folks like Top Brass and other brass recyclers, so we didn't worry much about it... We easily got a couple or three reloadings out of the brass we were able to find...

Anyone who has it, do you like it? I will probably get a Glock 32 for it. Even though it may be cheaper to get a used Glock 23 and slap a Lone Wolf barrel in it - has anyone done this?

 

I'm a fan of the sig... The sig is as accurate as any pistol ive ever handled and is a powerful round to boot...  I think the 357 sig is genuinely what was hyped for the 9mm... The down side is the muzzle blast, but ya have to expect a large muzzle blast with these high powered rounds... In summary, the 357 sig is an accurate, powerful round...

 

We have burnt a good amount of powder thru the Glock 33 (...with a glock barrel...) and the results are great... Out of the short glock 33 barrel, the 125 grain pills are knocking on the door of 1300 fps if i remember right (...actual chronograph numbers...)...

 

Recoil is sharp and the muzzle blast is exactly what ya would expect...

 

In summary, i like the 357 sig and i understand why it has a "cult" following... I think it is the first, sensible, genuine "near magnum" semiautomatic handgun round there is... We have a couple of 10MM's and i like them too... Not enough shooting done with them to form an opinion as yet...

Any other insight is also a plus. I dont really NEED one but I like diversification and I am a Glock enthusiast now.

 

For what it's worth; the glock 33 that this shootin was done with wuz our first glock purchase... We are along time smith and ruger large bore pistol shooters... i wanted a small carry gun that had a few extra shots in it... An ole buddy of mine had the 33 and told me:... "Try this thing, ya will be surprized..."... I did, and he wuz right...There are not two glock 10mm, 2 glock 357 sigs, and a glock 40 (...glock 27...) at our house... All this from an old time blue steel and walnut wheelgun guy...

 

Hope this helps a bit...

 

leroy

Edited October 6, 2015 by leroy

[CommsNBombs]

I appreciate all that feedback Leroy. That's exciting stats coming out of the 33 - as I am trading my 36 in for one to another gentleman.

I do not mind giant fireballs and noise - I love that stuff. I do not expect it to be much worse than my Glock 29 or Desert Eagle. Or my wifes SBR before she put the "Pig" on it.

Any specific "technique" to it? I was watching youtube and one guy said since the Glock barrel isnt a full support (?) Barrel that it bulges on the bottom toward the bottom - and he ran it through both the 40SW resizing die AND the 357 die

Now since I will only own 357 Glocks (33, and maybe the 32) - would this step be necessary?

I appreciate all the help and feedback on this so far. Definitely solidified my decision to get one.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Luap]

I posted this on another thread here on TGO so I copied it over rather than make you go look.  I did make a couple of changes and additions.

 

I am a big .357 Sig fan and have several Sigs ranging from SP2022 up to 229 Elite. When purchased they were born as a .40 cal. 4 of them I purchased a .357 sig barrel.  So far all 4 dropped in without a hitch. Now I have 8 weapons instead of 4. As most of you know Sig .40 and .357 magazines will except both of  these two calibers.  Usually they can be found online at reasonable prices.  Always heard the .357 sig cartridge called a necked down .40.  Never had and Issue with recoil or muzzle flash on the .357 Sig.

 

Most of the time if I’m not carrying a Sig compact 1911 in .45 I have one of the Sigs in the .357 Sig configurations tucked neatly in my knickers.

 

A word of caution if you have both barrels:  It is very possible to put both cartridges in the same Magazine.  We humans do stupid stuff at times. Something tells me .40 cal doesn't seat very well in a .357 sig barrel. 

 

As far as reloading, I reload .40 cal but have not started the .357 sig process.  I plan on it, have the proper tools for it, just slowly building up the brass and projectiles.  I'm not in a big hurry as explained below. 

Ammo prices: Well known .357 sig is more expensive as there are fewer brands manufactured for target and plinking. .40 Cal on the other hand has many more options therefore lower price. So with that, I will mostly practice with the .40 cal barrel and carry with .357 Sig. Nothing against the .40, nothing at all, I just like the .357 sig. I don’t find a great deal of difference in trajectory between the two as have sent considerable amount of .357 sig down the tube and have no concerns should I be required to un holster the rascal. 

 

I suppose its easy to see, I am not a Glock fan.  I know they are reliable, simple to service and a good weapon.  I simply don't like the feel in my hand or the way they shoot.  My Daughter in Law and Brother both have .40 cal Glocks.  No Idea what the number is but I've given the old College try multiple time to like them, but in my old age I just can't get there. 

 

So that my nickels worth of .357 Sig love.  And its worth exactly what you paid for it, nothing.  Good Luck with your purchase or Trade as I'm sure you will enjoy it.