Ron Ramsey statement

[Hozzie]

Maybe we need to all bombard him now with his hypocracy on 2A and being able to carry anywhere.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/03/tennessee-lt-gov-ron-ramsey-says-fellow-christians-should-arm-themselves/?intcmp=hpbt2

[K191145]

Maybe we need to all bombard him now with his hypocracy on 2A and being able to carry anywhere.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/03/tennessee-lt-gov-ron-ramsey-says-fellow-christians-should-arm-themselves/?intcmp=hpbt2

 

He also said, not out loud, please send the State of Tennessee $115 from each one of you, we legislators love the extra money. If we bombard him about Constitutional carry he will have some answer why that's not a good idea right now.

He could have included any Hindu's, Buddist's or Agnostic's etc, or just everyone period. He just gave that liberal Anti-Christian Rep. John Ray Clemmons ammo to come back at him by just including Christians in his statements.  

[K191145]

The State Legislators debating funds.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3e0EkvIEM

[dawgdoc]

Does he realize that had this incident had happened at a Tennessee college, that there would have been a good chance of no one carrying even if they had a HCP?

[Hozzie]

That was my point. He's a hypocrite.

[300winmag]

At least an individual in Oregon can make the choice in legally carrying at a school there if he or she has a license.  We don't get to make that choice here.

[Oh Shoot]

At least an individual in Oregon can make the choice in legally carrying at a school there if he or she has a license. 

 

Not really.  Contrary to some reporting, I'm seeing that due to lawsuit decision, it's allowed on the grounds of public colleges, but only in buildings if permitted by the school.

 

Few do, and most all of those with limited circumstances -- Umpqua only allows it with written individual permission. Reckon they give anyone that? I dunno.

 

Private colleges may still ban it entirely, including the grounds.

 

- OS

Edited October 4, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[waynesan]

So here was a college with about 3,000 students, multiple buildings, and ONE unarmed security guard to "protect" all of that?! And from what I've read there was a recent debate among the college administration on whether to employ "armed" guards and it was split 50/50 on whether to do so. They decided not to do so because "armed guards would change the culture of the campus." I think the culture of the campus is now changed forever.

Edited October 4, 2015 by waynesan

[Grunt67]

So here was a college with about 3,000 students, multiple buildings, and ONE unarmed security guard to "protect" all of that?! And from what I've read there was a recent debate among the college administration on whether to employ "armed" guards and it was split 50/50 on whether to do so. They decided not to do so because "armed guards would change the culture of the campus." I think the culture of the campus is now changed forever.

 

 Guess you could say, educators are slow learners.

[tnhawk]

ramsey has proven to the citizens of TN, that he is no friend of gun owners.  If his lips are moving, he's lying.

Edited October 4, 2015 by tnhawk

[leroy]

I'm continually amazed at the "no good deed (...or spoken truth...) goes unpunished in some quarters here... Ron Ramsey told the truth...

 

My opinion is that it would have been better received if he had said "... Students should arm themselves..." instead of "....Christians should arm themselves..."... It's truly a fascinating phenomenon....I dont like career polititians any more than anyone else here does... I guess that ya could say im one of "...The Biggest Haters..." here... The sobering truth is that... A... He told the truth even though he is a "ratty polititian'... You need to take that at face value... B... The colleges are, in fact, a big lobby, and they have great influence and sway in this and other states... They get bowed to... Ramsey aint the cause of that, the idiot "educrats" are... They are the problem... not Ramsey... 

 

I cant help but think (...im very suspicious, ya understand...) that some folks who are vocally decryin this alleged "hyprocracy" on Ramsey's part; are really bitchin and are "repulsed" that he used the word "Christian"... Saying, in effect, that "Christians" are "lesser children" and, as such, are not "worthy" of saving... You know who you are...

 

Remember this, the First Amendment allows for freedom of expression of religious beliefs (...or the lack of them...)... The Second provides that freedom of expression (...and all the ohers...)...

 

That is all...

 

watchin leroy

[Hozzie]

I cant help but think (...im very suspicious, ya understand...) that some folks who are vocally decryin this alleged "hyprocracy" on Ramsey's part; are really bitchin and are "repulsed" that he used the word "Christian"... Saying, in effect, that "Christians" are "lesser children" and, as such, are not "worthy" of saving... You know who you are.

Not sure if that is directed at me because I started the thread and used the term hypocrite, but I find it completely ridiculous and offensive.

Yep, I don't believe in any God. So what? The issue with Ramsey isn't his use of the term Christian. In fact it never crossed my mind as an issue to be honest. I called him a hypocrite because he wants to imply that everyone should get an hcp, yet politically blocks laws to help anyone attending a college from carrying. That is the only hypocrisy I was speaking about.

If anything, I think your response does feed one of my biggest issues with any religion. They always have to be the victim.

Edited: I guess I should say it isn't just religion, everyone has to be a victim nowadays and it pisses me off to no end. Edited October 4, 2015 by Hozzie

[leroy]

Hozzie...

 

Here's what you said in the first post....

 

 

 

Maybe we need to all bombard him now with his hypocracy on 2A and being able to carry anywhere.

 

Here's what you said on post #12....

 

 

 

The issue with Ramsey isn't his use of the term Christian. In fact it never crossed my mind as an issue to be honest. I called him a hypocrite because he wants to imply that everyone should get an hcp, yet politically blocks laws to help anyone attending a college from carrying. That is the only hypocrisy I was speaking about. 

 

 

Again... "No good deed goes unpunished"... There's no way for you to be satisfied... My point is that he, a "ratty polititian" is helpin all he can... 

 

Re-read this from post #11:

 

 

 

 B... The colleges are, in fact, a big lobby, and they have great influence and sway in this and other states... They get bowed to... Ramsey aint the cause of that, the idiot "educrats" are... They are the problem... not Ramsey... 

 

RE:   This...

 

 

Yep, I don't believe in any God. So what? 

 

I got no problem with ya not believin... The First Amendment covers this as well... My point is that ya cant seem to leave it alone... Ya wear this "no god, no Christian thing" on your sleeve for a past time, and seem to snipe and whine about anyone that is... Looks ta me like the old "double standard" to me... While i'm on the subject;  RE:  ... "...completely ridiculous and offensive..."; i find the "no good deed goes unpunished" and the "Christian" thing "... completely ridiculous and offensive..." myself, so we are even now... We both think eachother are "completely ridiculous and offensive"...

 

The point here is that ya cant seem to be placated nor satisfied... Ramsey stands up for a 2A issue and ya still bitch...  Ya bitch more anytime the word "Christian" or "Judeo-Christian" is mentioned... That's the point...

 

By the way,  i never claim "victim status" and neither should anyone else...

 

Thats what i think... We can agree to disagree on this but i reserve the right to have an opinion too..

 

leroy

[Hozzie]

I don't get your ramblings, but I do agree to disagree. As to you believing I am anti-Christian, that's your opinion. I am ok with that. I don't think I am anti-Christian and I suspect if you talk to anyone (who is a Christian) who knows me they would back me up, and most likely tell you I act more Christian than most Christians.

I am not against religion, I am against hypocrisy. Not believing in a God doesn't mean hating religion as you would like to imply. Edited October 4, 2015 by Hozzie

[leroy]

The fact that you responded means that you did, indeed, "...get my ramblings..."... You were offended... I called no names, yet ya felt the need to "respond"... 

 

Now to the details...

 

RE:  This... 

 

 

...I am not against religion, I am against hypocrisy. Not believing in a God doesn't mean hating religion as you would like to imply. ...

 

As to the first sentence... Glad ta hear it... Actions speak louder than words... I'll reserve judgement and watch a while... Up ta now ya been pretty hard on the "Judeo-Christian" ethic... It's covered in the First Amendment... 

 

As to the second sentence... Ya could have fooled me... Look back thru the hot button threads and see what ya wrote... This is just the latest one...

 

As to  "...as you would like to imply..."... Ya never miss a chance to either bash or berate the believers among us... Your words in various posts have implicated you... I would think a lot more of you if ya actually did the "...live and let live thing...".... Ya might consider it... 

 

leroy

Edited October 4, 2015 by leroy

[Oh Shoot]

Ya never miss a chance to either bash or berate the believers among us... ...

 

I've certainly gotten that sentiment some, Leroy, but in most every case it is due to hypersensitivity of some Christians on board here.

 

A simple historical fact about the history of the church, a simple metaphysical statement of an alternate point of view, whatever, often gets a cry of "bashing" or "berating".

 

By that token, I guess I should see any of the many professions of Christian faith here as "bashing" and "berating" my agnosticism, eh?   C'mon.

 

- OS

[Hozzie]

Leroy, at the end of the day, I figure we both don't really give a crap what one of us thinks about the other personally.

I think you are taking me out of context and you think you have me pegged. We will both go on doing what we do and giving our opinions. I am good with that.

Have a good evening. Edited October 4, 2015 by Hozzie

[btq96r]

 B... The colleges are, in fact, a big lobby, and they have great influence and sway in this and other states... They get bowed to... Ramsey aint the cause of that, the idiot "educrats" are... They are the problem... not Ramsey...

 

Sorry, Ramsey and his cohort are the problem in the legislative sense.

 

Colleges, especially public ones like TBR schools are completely dependent on state money for their day to day operations from direct funding, and the way the state helps to subsidize tuition for students from scholarships.  If the legislature voted to force these schools that take direct state funding to allow carry with a valid HCP, they would bitch and moan for a news cycle, then go on cashing the checks.  Nothing matters more to the higher education lobby than keeping the spigot flowing with cash to the schools.

Edited October 4, 2015 by btq96r

[Raoul]

I've known Ron since he was a surveyor. Long time ago. Ron's an opportunist.

[Garufa]

Ron's tongue matches his hair....silver.

[GKar]

I've known Ron since he was a surveyor. Long time ago. Ron's an opportunist.

 

Indeed he is.

 

My 'problem' with what he said is what he didn't say - and as good politically expedient speech usually does, his words leave an impression with the voters who are not 'detail oriented' on relevant 2A legislation thinking that he is a straight-up, hammer-down 2A supporter.  Athletic supporter - maybe.  2A...not so much when it comes right down to brass tacks.

[leroy]

Several things to consider.....
Ramsey has influence to a point... I think the reality is that Haslam is the problem, not Ramsey... More than that, Beth Harwell is a problem too, but for a different reason... I think Haslam is thinkin senatorial and presidential thoughts... He has to look reasonable to everybody on both sides of everything... Ramsey is, I believe, Haslam's "lap dog"... I think he is bought and paid for in as far as Haslam is concerned, and, as such, will not do anything that smacks of clashing with him on anything...

Said another way, he is doin all he can within the constraints he has on him... Sadly, that is the state of politics most everywhere, everybody is beholden to someone...

The fact is also that the Tennessee Board of Regents is made up of a bunch of rich political activists and donors... Not all of them see guns as the answer to this problem... The fact is that rich folks by and large run the gubmt, like it or not... This campus carry thing has a set of formidable adversaries and Ramsey aint the main one... To say he is is to ignore lots of things that simply can't be ignored...

I think the "campus carry" thing will have to be decided in the courts... It lets the political class off the hook...

leroy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited October 5, 2015 by leroy

[300winmag]

I think with the difficulty we had getting the park carry law passed and signed into law shows the great difficulty we would have in legalizing carry in colleges and more so K-12 schools in this state with a handgun carry permit.  You will never get college carry legalized in a Constitutional Carry law in this state.  In roughly half the states you can carry on a college campus, with a license.  Out of that half, maybe ten you can legally also carry in K-12 schools, again with a license.

 

The politicians in this state somewhat tolerate the handgun carry permit system and like to throw a few crumbs toward improving it every so often so they get a vote.  It is important to remember that the House Speaker and the Lt Gov/Senate Speaker could have never allowed a floor vote on park carry.  The recent democratic house speaker never would allow floor votes on any bills that improved the handgun carry permit.

 

I think you'd have a greater chance in dropping the 'no guns' signs penalties for people with permits and maybe college carry with permits before you would ever get Constitutional carry.  With limited time during legislative session, that is what I would focus efforts lobbying for.

 

Gun rights organizations just need to work the best way that they can with committee chairs and other key legislative leaders, especially with realistic bills that make sense in improving the permit system.

[Oh Shoot]

I think with the difficulty we had getting the park carry law passed and signed into law shows the great difficulty we would have in legalizing carry in colleges and more so K-12 schools in this state with a handgun carry permit.  You will never get college carry legalized in a Constitutional Carry law in this state.  In roughly half the states you can carry on a college campus, with a license.  Out of that half, maybe ten you can legally also carry in K-12 schools, again with a license.

....

 

TN firearm history being what it is, I truly agree that without the carry permit system, college carry wouldn't ever stand a chance.

 

Even if we ever do get "Constitutional Carry" (and I put it in quotes because of all the limitations on it that will still exist), I certainly hope we'll follow all the other states (except for VT) and still issue permits, both for reciprocity and hopefully other privileges such as the college carry.

 

- OS

[K191145]

I think with the difficulty we had getting the park carry law passed and signed into law shows the great difficulty we would have in legalizing carry in colleges and more so K-12 schools in this state with a handgun carry permit.  You will never get college carry legalized in a Constitutional Carry law in this state.  In roughly half the states you can carry on a college campus, with a license.  Out of that half, maybe ten you can legally also carry in K-12 schools, again with a license.

 

The politicians in this state somewhat tolerate the handgun carry permit system and like to throw a few crumbs toward improving it every so often so they get a vote.  It is important to remember that the House Speaker and the Lt Gov/Senate Speaker could have never allowed a floor vote on park carry.  The recent democratic house speaker never would allow floor votes on any bills that improved the handgun carry permit.

 

I think you'd have a greater chance in dropping the 'no guns' signs penalties for people with permits and maybe college carry with permits before you would ever get Constitutional carry.  With limited time during legislative session, that is what I would focus efforts lobbying for.

 

Gun rights organizations just need to work the best way that they can with committee chairs and other key legislative leaders, especially with realistic bills that make sense in improving the permit system.

 

We still need to press the issue of Constitutional carry but you're right about it having little chance of passing, but not impossible in the future. I still think the biggest barricade standing in the way of Constitutional carry would be the loss of revenue the permit system generates. Last I read there are about 480,000 active HCP's in the state and that was some time back, I bet it's close to 500,000 now if not a little more. Even if you don't count the $115 for the initial fee, 1/2 million paying $50 renewal fee to the state generates $25 million in revenue every 4 years. While that may not be much for a state government it's not chump change. I'm assuming the legislature can use that money for anything they want to, I haven't heard or read if permit revenue was specifically delegated to any one department. The number 1 motivator to most all politicians no matter what party they belong to is $$$MONEY$$$. Actually giving up a sweet source of revenue/money is probably one of the most offensive, horrible, evil thoughts a career politician can have.

 

 

EDIT:

Here you go.

 

 

http://www.wsmv.com/story/30175643/1-in-10-adult-tennesseans-has-handgun-carry-permit

 

There are currently [b]517,423[/b] handgun carry permit holders in Tennessee. Forty percent of those received their permit in the last two years.

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by K191145