Multiple Dead in Oregon College Shooting

[Ron_TN]

The man was wacko.......he would have killed them no matter what they said.

[FUJIMO]

The man was wacko.......he would have killed them no matter what they said.

This trumps any need for religious discussion for me. I guess I would have been shot for questioning his reason for asking me such a personal question,lol.

[TMF]

Really!

 

Anyone Buddhist to Baptist to Zoroastrian and every faith in between who wouldn't lie to an insane maniac in order to live is about as loony as the perp.

 

- OS

 

Having participated in both Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, I've considered the many scenarios which may result from capture by various enemy organizations.  In Iraq, for the most part, I fought against Sunni insurgent groups, such as ISI, al Qaeda (Iraq franchise), Ansar al Sunna and so on.  In those scenarios, I planned to be such a uncooperative captive during the initial phase, in hopes that I would be killed out of frustration prior to being put on camera and having my head sawed off on YouTube.  This would not only include a profession of Christian faith, but very unkind words for Muhammed.  I'd probably see where it went with the Shia groups, but they weren't in the business of taking prisoners during conflict or cease-fires.

 

Afghanistan has always been a different animal.  As is evident by the continued oxygen wasting pile of flesh known as Berghdal, the Taliban are more likely to use you for bargaining leverage.  They do a much better job of keeping their prisoners alive.  I'd suppose I'd tell them anything they wanted to hear, so long as it wasn't on camera, didn't involve sensitive information, and wasn't critical of the US.  I'd convert to Islam, pray 5 times a day, and all that, until there was an opportunity to escape or be released.  I have a wonderful wife and kids that need me.  If lying to stay alive is required, that's fine.  Why would I care what a bunch of booger eating monkeys think about me?  I draw the line at providing damaging propaganda or sensitive information, as that affects those beyond myself, and it's pretty illegal.

 

So as for a whacko Muslim shooter, hell yeah I'd lie and say I was Muslim!  If that extra second or two afforded me the opportunity to end his life and save my own, as well as many others, why would any rational person not do that?  Because you'd feel guilty?  Guilty about lying to f'ing lunatic who is killing a bunch of people?

Edited October 6, 2015 by TMF

[E4 No More]

So as for a whacko Muslim shooter, hell yeah I'd lie and say I was Muslim!  If that extra second or two afforded me the opportunity to end his life and save my own, as well as many others, why would any rational person not do that?  Because you'd feel guilty?  Guilty about lying to f'ing lunatic who is killing a bunch of people?

Speaking for myself, it isn't about feeling guilty about lying to someone; it's about denying a God who doesn't deny me.

 

What many can't comprehend is that there is no black and white with God - nor is there a degree of wrong. You either did wrong or you didn't. The difference is whether you are charged for it or not, (impute = charged). For reference:

 

Psalms 32:2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit is no deceit.

 

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

Notice in the second verse it is future tense.

[Omega]

They did not know what his intetentions where when he ask them....I'm sure if they knew his intent was kill christains they would never had admitted it.......HUH?  Do you really think they wanted to die and said that they where christains......what are you smoking?

That will work for the first one asked, and maybe even the second if both gave differing answers.  But when you KNOW what the outcome will be if you answer in a certain way you have to be real naïve (to put it kindly) to answer that way.  Of course it has not been put out what the last to be shot answers were so who knows if he even continued asking after the first one. 

 

Speaking for myself, it isn't about feeling guilty about lying to someone; it's about denying a God who doesn't deny me.

 

What many can't comprehend is that there is no black and white with God - nor is there a degree of wrong. You either did wrong or you didn't. The difference is whether you are charged for it or not, (impute = charged). For reference:

 

Psalms 32:2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit is no deceit.

 

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

Notice in the second verse it is future tense.

See, this is where I get real confused.  Some take such a stance on something like this but are willing to break all kinds of commandments taking their chance that all will be forgiven.  I follow no entity that deals in B&W because life is not that way.  What happens if in the act of self defense you take a life? In a B&W view you have broken a commandment.   Or what happens when you accidentally kill a bystander, in case someone wants to enter a plea of self defense on the last one?  No, I believe there are shades of grey in everything.  I am sure a God that wants to protect the innocent would want you to do everything in your power to survive no matter what a few old guys wrote in some book a couple of thousand years ago.

[E4 No More]

See, this is where I get real confused.  Some take such a stance on something like this but are willing to break all kinds of commandments taking their chance that all will be forgiven.  I follow no entity that deals in B&W because life is not that way.  What happens if in the act of self defense you take a life? In a B&W view you have broken a commandment.   Or what happens when you accidentally kill a bystander, in case someone wants to enter a plea of self defense on the last one?  No, I believe there are shades of grey in everything.  I am sure a God that wants to protect the innocent would want you to do everything in your power to survive no matter what a few old guys wrote in some book a couple of thousand years ago.

The noted 10 Commandments are referred to as the law. The law was for the Jews prior to Christ. The topic is a large part of the book of Romans, and is more than I can write in this venue: however, I find it strange when people want to point to the 10 Commandments and can't even recall what the very 1st Commandment was let alone keep it.

 

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

If you want to rely on keeping the law then you might want to look at this:

 

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

[R_Bert]

SWJewellTN, on 06 Oct 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

The noted 10 Commandments are referred to as the law. The law was for the Jews prior to Christ. The topic is a large part of the book of Romans, and is more than I can write in this venue: however, I find it strange when people want to point to the 10 Commandments and can't even recall what the very 1st Commandment was let alone keep it.

 

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

If you want to rely on keeping the law then you might want to look at this:

 

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

You need to elaborate.  The doctrine of Grace doe not make sense to most non-Christians.  And... You have to tie it into the fact that under grace, we *still* do not have free license to sin.,

[Ron_TN]

we can talk till we are blue in the face...bottom line.... and we all know it.... there will be murders until the lord makes this earth a cinder....  At any given moment in this world you have an active lunatic erupting. 

[Hershmeister]

we can talk till we are blue in the face...bottom line.... and we all know it.... there will be murders until the lord makes this earth a cinder.... At any given moment in this world you have an active lunatic erupting.

But; but, but....i want to feel safe. We have to do something!

/snark

[Ron_TN]

But; but, but....i want to feel safe. We have to do something!

/snark

We will be safe.....when we go throught those golden gates.....if ya want to blame anyone talk to adam and eve

[Oh Shoot]

We will be safe.....when we go throught those golden gates.....

 

They've been upgraded from pearly? ;)
 

if ya want to blame anyone talk to adam and eve

 

Methinks English may be a problem. :)

 

 

- OS

 

[TMF]

Speaking for myself, it isn't about feeling guilty about lying to someone; it's about denying a God who doesn't deny me.

 

What many can't comprehend is that there is no black and white with God - nor is there a degree of wrong. You either did wrong or you didn't. The difference is whether you are charged for it or not, (impute = charged). For reference:

 

Psalms 32:2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit is no deceit.

 

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

Notice in the second verse it is future tense.

 

If God can forgive the things we do in life, I can't accept that there is no forgiveness for one who lies to bloodthirsty savages for the sake of one's family.

[FUJIMO]

 

 

 

- OS

 

 

Barry and Michelle - the dating years ?? :) :)

[E4 No More]

If God can forgive the things we do in life, I can't accept that there is no forgiveness for one who lies to bloodthirsty savages for the sake of one's family.

 

I never said that he wouldn't forgive it; I said that I like to think that I wouldn't deny him while I was figuring out how to kill the fellow. There's a difference between spiritual warfare and physical warfare after all.

[E4 No More]

You need to elaborate.  The doctrine of Grace doe not make sense to most non-Christians.  And... You have to tie it into the fact that under grace, we *still* do not have free license to sin.,

Feel free to jump in. As I've said a couple of times, this is not a good venue to discuss such things.

 

I think people who don't study the Bible for themselves think that after one accepts salvation a true Christian doesn't sin, and that's simply not true. It makes Christians look like hypocrites. Jesus said that if you look at a woman and lust for her then you've committed adultery already in your heart: therefore, if you think it then you've done it. This is why EVERYONE is sinful. That's what his message to the Pharisees, (who thought they don't sin), was all about. Accepting God's grace separates the physical from the spiritual; the sin from the sinner. License to sin? No! But Jesus' blood is the filter through which God looks at his children. I sin like everyone else does but I try to control it, and I don't believe God rejects me when I inevitably fail. 

 

Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[R_Bert]

Yall continue. It is a great conversation. A few corners need touching up, but at least the plow is in the garden. I'll jump in later today and tomorrow, as I got a few project deadlines before a long weekend (which is what happened yesterday also). But... this is a good place to discuss. A forum, albeit electronic, just like Mars Hill where Paul explained his seemingly ridiculous faith in terms that they, the debaters, could understand. We do the same here, on many hard topics.

B.

[Wingshooter]

Barry and Michelle - the dating years ?? :) :)

:rofl: