Getting broken cleaning rod tip out of black powder barrel

[Sam1]

Was up at a friend's house out of state over the weekend and he had just moved in there, don't have connections to reliable gunsmiths in the area.

 

He has an old black powder gun that has been passed down through his family and is extremely important to him.  When he was cleaning it a while back, the tip broke off the rod and it is stuck a good ways down into the barrel, cloth still attached.  I brought it back with me, thinking surely someone knows a good person around Nashville, or even if I need to ship it somewhere else in the state to get it fixed.

 

He was open to the idea of getting a new barrel, but couldn't locate an identical replacement anywhere, and said for sentimental purposes, he would really just like to have this one fixed.

 

Does anyone have contact info of someone that may be able to look at it?  There's some info stamped on the barrel, I can post it and a pic later, maybe as a last resort someone could help us find a replacement.

 

The one thing I wasn't sure of is if a general machine shop could maybe drill through the cleaning tip and screw something in it to back it out with.  I'm just concerned about maintaining the integrity of the rifling.

 

Any info is appreciated.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Sam1

[f3joel]

I would try compressed air in the flash hole.

[peejman]

Put a glob of 15 mi epoxy on a dowel. Stick it to the tip and let it cure. Once it's cured, squirt some penetrating oil in there and pull it out.

[Sam1]

I would try compressed air in the flash hole.

 

 

You think that would work?  I gotta go try it just for grins, not sure if 140 psi would do much though, that's all my compressor has.

[raildog]

I would try compressed air in the flash hole.

^^^^^^^ My first thought

[Omega]

I am guessing it doesn't have a breech plug to remove?

[RED333]

If the air dont work,

remove the nipple, get as much powder into the barrel through the hole

where the nipple came from. Reinstall the nipple.

Ram the broken piece all the way down into the barrel.

Put a cap on the nipple, point in a safe direction and pull the trigger.

I have done this with no powder loads, yes I mean patch and ball rammed all the way down the barrel.

[gregintenn]

If the air dont work,

remove the nipple, get as much powder into the barrel through the hole

where the nipple came from. Reinstall the nipple.

Ram the broken piece all the way down into the barrel.

Put a cap on the nipple, point in a safe direction and pull the trigger.

I have done this with no powder loads, yes I mean patch and ball rammed all the way down the barrel.

I've done it before to remove a broken ramrod with cleaning jag and patch attached. It kicked pretty good, but the offending ramrod remnant was removed.

 

It won't need a full charge of powder. The offending ramrod I removed was all the way in the barrel, and I still got enough powder in there to do the trick. Be sure to leave ample room so you can full screw in the nipple.

Edited September 21, 2015 by gregintenn

[TNWNGR]

Here's another option using a grease gun...

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20234

 

There also used to be an adapter which used a Co2 cartridge to clear a black power barrel.

[Sam1]

thanks TNWNGR that grease gun thing is a brilliant idea.  going to give it a shot.

 

The air didn't work (didn't think it would) cause if it was stuck in there good enough to break off the rod, a few hundred psi isn't going to make it budge.

[midtennpawn]

I have had some success with drilling a small hole in the end of a dowel rod (smaller than the threads on the jag) and screwing it over the jag and pulling it out. You will have to put some pretty good pressure on the dowel to get it started and thread.  

[Sam1]

going to try the grease gun thing, but not sure what local stores sale zerk fittings.  Lowe's had a few different ones but the threads didn't match up.

[RED333]

going to try the grease gun thing, but not sure what local stores sale zerk fittings.  Lowe's had a few different ones but the threads didn't match up.

they wont, you will have to drill out a nipple and make an adapter.

Zerk fittings age hard and will cut a thread into soft metal.

[Wingshooter]

You can buy an device that uses co2 cartridges that is made to fit in the flash hole. I have used that to unload a 50cal before. It will throw the bullet and powder out about 10 feet. If the cleaning cloth is forming a good enough seal, then it should clear it from the barrel as well. It works great

This is it but not in stock. I got mine at sportsmans warehouse. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/278589/genuine-innovations-saf-t-unloader-muzzleloader-unloading-device Edited September 23, 2015 by Wingshooter

[gregintenn]

going to try the grease gun thing, but not sure what local stores sale zerk fittings.  Lowe's had a few different ones but the threads didn't match up.

How will you clean the grease out?

 

Sounds like a mess to me. I still say shoot it out and be done with it.

[stumpy]

RED333 gave the answer I have used in the past.  The last rifle I used this technique on was especially pesky.  On the first effort the bullet moved up the barrel from the flash hole a few inches .  This left more than enough room to slip powder behind it.  However, the flash hole would grab the powder and plug closed when I tried to fill it.  After several failed attempts I finally got enough powder in the chamber to result in a hang-fire effect:  "Pop" of the cap............wait for it............wait some more.........."WHOOSH" of the powder and then the "WHAP" of the ball hitting a cardboard target downrange (rather close on an indoor pistol range).  All that was required after that was routine cleaning of the bore and all was well.

 

Stumpy

[Sam1]

Looks like the thread is an m10 x 0.75 pitch.  Having a crazy hard time finding one in that size, everything is m10 x 1.0

[Sam1]

How will you clean the grease out?

 

Sounds like a mess to me. I still say shoot it out and be done with it.

 

Problem is that he doesn't want to risk part of that rod coming out crooked and damaging the rifling.  

[gregintenn]

I'd think the cleaning jag and patch would keep it lined up as it exits the barrel.

 

Wood ramrod? Aluminum? Fiberglass? They won't damage rifling.

Edited September 29, 2015 by gregintenn

[TNWNGR]

I'd think the cleaning jag and patch would keep it lined up as it exits the barrel.

 

Wood ramrod? Aluminum? Fiberglass? They won't damage rifling.

 

Correct. The ramrod tip and such will come out true if a Co2 cartridge or powder charge is used. Should you still wish to use the Zerk fitting check out the Grainger Catalog or  go to a true nuts and bolts store and have them check on one for you. I'd sooner pay for the Zerk fitting and a tube of grease then for one of the Co2 bullet discharger kits.

[gregintenn]

Correct. The ramrod tip and such will come out true if a Co2 cartridge or powder charge is used. Should you still wish to use the Zerk fitting check out the Grainger Catalog or  go to a true nuts and bolts store and have them check on one for you. I'd sooner pay for the Zerk fitting and a tube of grease then for one of the Co2 bullet discharger kits.

So how would you go about cleaning the grease out afterward?

[Sam1]

So how would you go about cleaning the grease out afterward?

 

air compressor should blow most of it out, or worst case scenario just use a rod and push it back out the way it came in.

 

Grainger doesn't have it, haven't been able to find anyone who can get something it's just some weird size that no one in the world used except in Spain, for a short time, apparently.  I couldn't even find a thread adapter to go from m10 x 0.75 to m6 x 0.75 to use a standard fitting.  All is lost on this effort I do believe, throwing in the towel and taking it to a smith.

[MacGyver]

Sam, is the issue that you can't shoot it where you are?

Thousands of people have had exactly this issue. Most of them have solved it by getting a little powder behind it and blowing it.

[R1100R]

I have a bullet blower that uses CO2 cartridges and comes with four or five nipple adapters. That you can try.
That being said I would get some powder behind it like the others said and shoot it.

Here is a different style from Dixie:http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_99_322


Here is a universal: http://www.rmcoxyoke.com/inc/sdetail/b_i_d__kit/426 Edited October 1, 2015 by R1100R

[TNWNGR]

So how would you go about cleaning the grease out afterward?

 

Greg that's easier then removing the broken ramrod. As my favorite firearms trainer Louis Awerbuck chided me "Come on, its not rocket science". Air gun followed up with solvent, warm the barrel up enough to liquefy the grease and follow it up with solvent. Heck you could even soak the barrel in solvent and it would soften enough to easily patch it out.

 

Sam, before you take it to a smith take it out side and fire a couple of caps with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Then pull the nipple and do what the others have said an put a few grains of black powder into the nipple hole. Replace the nipple, cap it and shoot. It'll probably take a couple of try's but it will work. You are not going to hurt the barrel doing this as long as you use some good common sense. I