Cast 45 acp, what am I doing wrong?

[MrBrian]

I cast some 45 acp bullets with wheel weight alloy in this mold

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/313971/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-452-228-1r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-228-grain-1-ogive-radius

 

Pan lubed them and ran them thru this Lee sizer

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/444306/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-451-diameter

 

Used these RCBS dies

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/247879/rcbs-carbide-3-die-set-with-taper-crimp-45-acp-45-gap

 

The resizing/depriming die worked, and slightly belled the rim of the case....

 

When I went to seat the bullets, the bullet seating die seems to be crimping them as they were being seated, and then shaving off some of the lead....  and when I let the round back down out of the die, it pulled the bullet back out of the case.....   Here's a short video where you can see the bullet is being pulled back out, but I can push the bullet back down to where it was suppose to be....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBqlIyu7iC4

 

Then, when I went to use the tapered crimp die, it's not putting enough of a crimp on them to keep the bullet from moving...   I can actually pull the bullet completely back out of the brass without any retention.


So, did I size them too small with the .451 sizer?   Or am I using the wrong kind of dies?   Are there special dies for reloading cast bullets?   Why is the seating die crimping the brass when that's the job of the taper crimp die?   And why can't I get enough crimp with the taper crimp to hold in the bullet?

 

 

 

[Jct1911]

Sounds like a multitude of issues at once.

1. Sizing .451 is too small, personally of the 14 .45's I've owned, .452 will work.

2. Flaring the mouth too much will result in lack of case tension, just enough to start the bullet

3. Your seating die is set up incorrect, should be able to seat w/o the crimp with minor adjustments

4. Crimping does not hold a bullet, its main purpose is to remove the flare and second to promote feeding

[MrBrian]

Ok, so I used some of the bullets that I hadn't sized down yet, that measure .456 right out of the mold.       I got the seating die to not crimp by backing out the die and lowering the seating portion......     But now I can't get enough crimp with the taper crimp die....    The shell holder is touching the bottom of the crimp die when the arm is all the way down, and it's sufficiently hard to pull the handle down on the round, but I can still spin the bullet and it comes out of the case....   I understand it shouldn't actually crimp into the bullet, but it shouldn't come back out of the case that easy either....  The flair of the case doesn't seem to be an issue

[RED333]

I load for 40 S&W not 45 ACP, but am I wrong in saying you should not "crimp", but just remove the bell.

Most auto load pistols use the case mouth to set head space. If you "crimp" the head space will not be right.

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/45%20Automatic.pdf

[MrBrian]

I think I figured it out....   I ended up having to seat the bullet just a tad further down because I think it was right on the edge of the top lube groove before. Now that it's seated a little further down, when the bell of the case is taken out with the taper crimp, it actually has a little bit of lead to crimp to instead of the lube groove...   so now it's secured the bullet.   They still fall within it minimum OAL and I just successfully shot a magazine of them with no issues at all

[RED333]

Good deal, glad you got it worked out :up:

[MrBrian]

I knew they were suppose to be 1 to 2 thousands over the size of the barrel bore, but I could never find how safe it was to shoot anything over that...    The barrel I have measures .4525, and the bullets I shot were in the .457 range...   Should I get a .454 sizer or just shoot them as they are?

[deafdogdief]

Something you may not know about cast bullets. Cast bullets are not like jacketed bullets and do not develop pressure from being over sized. They will get swaged down to the proper size as it is being fired. It often is more accurate and definitely suffers from less leading.

The one thing to remember about cast bullets is if they will chamber they will be fine, providing the powder charge is correct for the weight.

Does the same apply for a Berry's plated bullet? I switched to a different run number and although I have flared more, I am still crushing shells or shaving lead. Still have to send some back to the company to get checked out. Should be .451 but measuring from .452-.453.

[Dolomite_supafly]

No, they are generally plated with a copper alloy, same as jacketed bullets. Load them by weight and you will be fine. And most plated bullets are sized the same as jacketed.

If you are shaving bullets you need more of a bell. Lee sells a universal tool to bell case mouths. It is under $20 and will ensure the case is belled without expanding the case walls.

Open your current sizer to .454". It is cheaper and better than buying a new sizer. I buy all my sizing dies at least .002" under so I can open it up and polish the internal surface. Once polished there is no need to lube your bullets before sizing.

If you are crushing 45 ACP brass something is VERY wrong. Maybe a die out of spec or maybe the wrong caliber. I guess it is possible to crush them by not setting up does correctly but it would be hard to do. Are the bullets lubed when you seat deafdogdief?

[deafdogdief]

No, they are generally plated with a copper alloy, same as jacketed bullets. Load them by weight and you will be fine. And most plated bullets are sized the same as jacketed.

If you are shaving bullets you need more of a bell. Lee sells a universal tool to bell case mouths. It is under $20 and will ensure the case is belled without expanding the case walls.

Open your current sizer to .454". It is cheaper and better than buying a new sizer. I buy all my sizing dies at least .002" under so I can open it up and polish the internal surface. Once polished there is no need to lube your bullets before sizing.

If you are crushing 45 ACP brass something is VERY wrong. Maybe a die out of spec or maybe the wrong caliber. I guess it is possible to crush them by not setting up does correctly but it would be hard to do. Are the bullets lubed when you seat deafdogdief?

Bullets are not lubed. I never have lubed plated. Everything was fine until I switched to the different lot number and then I started having major problems. Called Berry's and they said to flare more. I did. Adjustment is all the way in and still having issues. Bullets are going back for testing. Just wondered if these would swage like lead, but I guess it's not the case. I hope they replace the thousand projectiles I have.

[Pete123]

I'm not a reloader and can't comment on the issue.  Just a quick reminder that the area where you melt and cast the lead needs to be super well ventilated.