how are these bailouts fair?

[Guest jackdog]

Well i saw quite bit of the hearings today, and I don't think they will have the votes for a bail out/ loan. Sorry Detroit but you lose. Plus they are asking for almost double the net worth of their companies. And this is on top of the 25 billion that congress awarded them a couple of months ago.

[DaveTN]

Sorry Detroit but you lose.

We all lose.

Whether you are a fan of supporting American industry or not; the fall of these companies will be a kick in the teeth to our economy.

We owe it to our kids and grandkids to leave our economy and lifestyle in at least as good of shape as what we found it. My Generation and this generation have failed miserably at that.

This is on us. When your grandkids ask “How could you have been so stupid?†what will you have to say? (not that it will matter). History will show that this was not the fault of the government or the unions; it was the fault of the people.

[Guest canynracer]

read sig line...

[Guest 44M]

this is not a socialism, it is capitalism and if you make mistake and your business goes down, so be it..I had to bankrupt my trucking business and nobody gave a ****, till this day I have a run around with IRS trying to sattle all the taxes they nailed me with..what bailout??? and on top of that, why would I bail out a company whose product I couldn`t even afford it? can you afford to buy $30.000 truck? and then they say, well, if we don`t get the money our cars will get even more expensive...well, screw you then, we`ll see how many of them you`ll sell than....I say no, this is not a corporate socialism ,sorry guys....

Db

ps

I agree, Toyota kicks a$$, you can get a new Camry for $18K and it will run forever...

[towerclimber37]

We all lose.

Whether you are a fan of supporting American industry or not; the fall of these companies will be a kick in the teeth to our economy.

We owe it to our kids and grandkids to leave our economy and lifestyle in at least as good of shape as what we found it. My Generation and this generation have failed miserably at that.

This is on us. When your grandkids ask “How could you have been so stupid?†what will you have to say? (not that it will matter). History will show that this was not the fault of the government or the unions; it was the fault of the people.

what kind of horse manure is this?

I don't owe my grand kids a danged thing! If they want something they'd better get out and get it for themselves, just like I did. I will be happy to give them wisdom and love, but the money? nope..do it yourself...its better that way anyhow. folks that "helped" their children in that manner is what got us in trouble in the first place. the kids got the help and then felt entitled to help whenever they got into a rough patch. the old saw about "the hottest fires make the strongest steel" is true.

As for the idea that failing auto manufacturers would be a kick in the teeth to our economy....yah..and?? only 1 in 9 jobs are associated with the auto industry. the other 9 of us are pretty pissed that we have to support these grabastic pieces of crap because they don't know how to do it themselves.

if we bail them out, all we're doing is prolonging the agony of their demise.

In a free market economy, the best product made for the least amount of money wins. these companies have so much overhead now days, due to unions and kickbacks that there's just no way they can turn a profit.

I don't owe them a thing and I dang sure don't intend to pay for an expensive vehicle and not get it...that's what these bail outs are...

government mandates that you pay the big 3 auto manufacturers because they're corrupt and can't run their own business.

[Guest jackdog]

So why the hell is Chrysler even being considered. They are owned by a foreign co that has billions and will not put more money in the American auto company. Why should Americans give these guys a loan. Do I believe that 2.5 million jobs will be lost without these loans? No and if I'm wrong we will survive. Ford says at this time they don't need funding, so why the hell are they their with hands out. I think all the bails outs to date are pure bull****, And Gw needs to be jailed along with paulson.

[cadillacdude1975]

Well, I work on cars all day. I know what I see.

amen to that. i do the same thing. those of us who work in the auto service/repair industry see what garbage has been sold for the last 15 years. honda, toyota and nissan are NOT in that category.

[Farman]

So why the hell is Chrysler even being considered. They are owned by a foreign co that has billions

A Belgium brewing company (Inbev)bought Anheuser Busch a while back and now they are cutting 1400 jobs in the U.S. Are they going belly up. Are they going to want some bailout $$$$ too?

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Edited December 10, 2008 by GUTTERbOY

[Guest Astra900]

THe senate just voted down the bailouts.

The bailout deal is over. BUT, there may be a new bailout deal through the treasury dept. or other places, or so says the morning news.

They also said GM would be first to go, followed closely by Chrysler, then when all the part suppliers start going under because of it, Ford would likely be in trouble. Apparently Ford is keeping it's head above water. THey didn't ask for a bailout, but asked for a 9 billion dollar line of credit that they hopefully won't have to use.

Hate to be cold to all those workers but screw taking tax payers money to put a dying carcass on life support. In a capitalist economy, if you can't swim, you drown. As it it should be.

amen to that. i do the same thing. those of us who work in the auto service/repair industry see what garbage has been sold for the last 15 years. honda, toyota and nissan are NOT in that category.

Thanks:up: You know where I'm coming from.

[Guest m4coyote]

If the "Big Three" fail, I wonder how long it will take the UAW to force themselves upon Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, and Volkswagen? The Volkswagen plant itself is not even under construction yet, but the UAW is already trying to make inroads towards union control of it. What a waste!

I have known many folks that have happily worked for Komatsu, and Nissan. At this time, these companies have no mafia type unions to take their profitability away from them, and yet, the people who work there are happy - imagine that!

[Guest Astra900]

I can't see the Japanese tolerating any union bull:poop:

Their pride in their work is too high. I think they would tell them in an instant to take a hike. Anything less would be a loss of face. Even today, that is something a Japanese business man will not accept. I hope they don't prove me wrong.

Besides, why would anyone at Toyota for example, need a union. They are WELL taken care of, and unlike american junk, Japanese cars are still selling, albeit very slow. I don't think any half minded worker at a Nissan/Honda/Toyota plant would want to gamble their security with a a bunch of losers from UAW.

[Guest nraforlife]

There are way too many automakers in the world. Just a fact of life. People are not, and haven't for awhile, buying new cars every two years BUT the automakers keep pumping them out like welfare moms breeding. So you have too many cars at high prices made by too many automakers. Something has to give. GM, Ford and Chrysler probably need to merge into one and then compete on price and product. It is really the retireres and their dependants/survivors that are going to get their teeth kicked in.

[DaveTN]

I didn’t want to see a bailout unless they had plans that would put American workers back to work and stop moving plants to Canada and Mexico. The reason for needing this bailout was not to keep the big three is business, but to help maintain our economy, the middle class, and our lifestyle in this country.

What does surprise me are the simpletons that are glad to see Americans companies folding, think that its as simple as making the best product for the lowest cost, think this is all the unions fault, or think Japanese companies don’t have unions.

A patriot defends his country…. Period. Those of you that think this is somehow a “good thing†or that this is all about defeating unions should be ashamed.

Hopefully there are enough Patriots left in this country to get us through this. But I’m not sure there are enough of us left anymore to carry all those more than willing to sell out their fellow countrymen. This isn’t about GM or Ford; this is about the survival of American manufacturing.

I am not in a union, I do not work in the automotive industry; I just see this as a terrible thing because I am an American.

[Punisher84]

I didn’t want to see a bailout unless they had plans that would put American workers back to work and stop moving plants to Canada and Mexico. The reason for needing this bailout was not to keep the big three is business, but to help maintain our economy, the middle class, and our lifestyle in this country.

What does surprise me are the simpletons that are glad to see Americans companies folding, think that its as simple as making the best product for the lowest cost, think this is all the unions fault, or think Japanese companies don’t have unions.

A patriot defends his country…. Period. Those of you that think this is somehow a “good thing†or that this is all about defeating unions should be ashamed.

Hopefully there are enough Patriots left in this country to get us through this. But I’m not sure there are enough of us left anymore to carry all those more than willing to sell out their fellow countrymen. This isn’t about GM or Ford; this is about the survival of American manufacturing.

I am not in a union, I do not work in the automotive industry; I just see this as a terrible thing because I am an American.

The problem is these guys got fat and rich off workers like my Grandfather and Uncles, then shipped jobs south and north of the border to keep THEIR individual profit margins healthy.

I like American products and like my country carrying itself, but this bailout won't do anything but keep corporate executives rich and the cars will still be crap.

[DaveTN]

The problem is these guys got fat and rich off workers like my Grandfather and Uncles, then shipped jobs south and north of the border to keep THEIR individual profit margins healthy.

I like American products and like my country carrying itself, but this bailout won't do anything but keep corporate executives rich and the cars will still be crap.

I am not saying that these are the good guys, or that they ask for our help with clean hands; they don’t.

But saying that they need to fail and holding up Japanese companies as being something good for any of us (except the Japanese) is ignorance beyond belief.

And I don’t care if you are a brain surgeon or ditch digger; the fall of our automotive companies will negatively impact you and your family.

[Mike.357]

I must have missed something, maybe I am naive.

Isn't the so called bailout of the "Big 3" a loan. Bailout to me implies that it is a gift.

A loan would ideally be repaid.

What am I missing here?

If GM does go under it will effect a lot more people than just those directly involved in auto manufacture and associated businesses.

Even if they file bankruptcy aren't there going to be people who get screwed on accounts receivable? Won't that be just as bad as the fallout from a loan or bail out?

[Guest Astra900]

Yep!

If GM falls, (and chrysler is very close behind) think of all the supporting business that will crash too! Materials; Plastics, steel and alum.

Mold makers, tool and die makers. Nuts, bolts and screws! Gm don't make those! There are lots of little businesses that will crash too.

It will be sad, but oh well. That's part of it. When an animal gets too old or too fat, nature has a way of saying " Meh, time to die"

Everyone involved has had it too good for too long. They have milked the thing dry. Worker and big wig alike. Unfortunate? Yes, but that's the way of things. It always has been, it always will be. The romans worked hard to build their empire. They got fat, they got lazy, they got way to absorbed in the way of life they had built, to the point they felt like they had a divine right to be that way...they died.

I will never understand why any man thinks ANYONE or ANYTHING owes them a living! Life doesn't owe you . Get over it. Whining will not bake bread....welp, time for me shut up.

[Guest jackdog]

I say they go chapter 11, that is what it was designed for. The government in turn could back their warranties until they fail or turn it around. Bottom line is these companies have to adapt to survive and for years they have chosen to not adapt. It is just free enterprize at work

[Guest jackdog]

And no it is not really a loan because the odds are they will go under in which case we tax payer will lose. Likewise Paulsen shuld be thrown in jail along with bush for the wall stree bull****. Our government should demand monies back from AIG and others that used it for bonuses or to pay stock holder diidends.

[R1100R]

Chrysler, GMAC is owned by Cerberus. An American company who also owns

Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington/Marlin and Cobb Manufacturing. They bought out

Daimler(Germany) a couple of years for controlling interest in Chrysler. Same with GM

for GMAC.

[Guest jackdog]

So If the mother co. Cerberus, Does not want or think investing more dollars in Chrysler is a good deal, then why the hell should the American tax payers be asked to do so..

The bottom line is someone in our government is saying tax payers you are going to buy a car or truck from GM Chrysler or ford, but you can't take it home. That is pure socialism. When does it stop.. I can see airlines and numerous other manufactures applying for a bailout.

[R1100R]

From my understanding it is Ford and GM asking for the bulk of the money.

Chrysler has kind of backed off.

[Guest Astra900]

Not trying to contradict you, but I heard on CNN that Ford only wanted a 15 billion dollar line of credit to fall back on, just in case, but didn't want to use it until the very last.

The news media couldn't get a story straight if their life depended on it.

[Punisher84]

I just think that it's all crap. I'm tired of funneling money this country doesn't have into people that will only mis-appropriate it.

I'm sorry, but after awhile, you just have to let the kid learn to not touch the stove on it's own. Know what I mean Verne?