how are these bailouts fair?

[Mike.357]

This whole bailout business really has my dander up.

First the banking mess, now the proposed bailout of the UAW.

Why do I have to pay for it? I live by my means. I did not buy a house I could not afford. I am not the man making bad business decisions and operating off of a failed business plan.

But I will get to help pay for this. I will see little if no benefit from this bailout.

I read in news stories how the bailout of the mortgage business will help those who are getting forclosed on. Why is none of this money being sent to me? Because I am responsible and pay my bills, did not buy a 200K home when all I could afford was a 92K home, I get to suffer from others stupidty.

As far as I am concerned capitalism should run its course. If the auto industry goes belly up then so be it. If somone has to move in with their inlaws because their mortgage ballooned then so be it. Maybe, just maybe they will act smarter next time around.

People everywhere need to man up and support themselves. Stop looking to be on the gov't dime. Which in reality is MY dime. Our kids, grandkids and great grandkids will be paying for this BS. It's a fine example we set for future generations.

You cannot borrow your way out of financial trouble.

[TGO David]

You cannot borrow your way out of financial trouble.

Agreed.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Welcome to socialism 101.

Your first lesson -

Jimmy Carter started it with the bad loan law.

Billy Jeff Clinton put it on steroids to get the minority and poor votes.

The congress protected Fannie and Freddie when they were cooking the books.

bho is putting those same "book cookers" into the cabinet.

We, the tax payers, are left holding the bag.

Take a good look around at what's left of the USA.

In 4 years, it's going to look a whole lot more like somalia than the US.

[Mark@Sea]

BHO was involved a lot earlier than you might think - he was the lead lawyer for ACORN, suing the banks under the CRA to force them to make loans to bad risks.

The bailout, by the way, is up to about 3 trillion dollars (not 700 billion anymore). It is covering every sort of pork-barrel project imaginable. Oh, it is also covering "O"'s political payola - 124 million to MSNBC.

The 25 billion UAW wants? Oh, sorry, I mean the auto industry? That would be the second 25 billion - they got the first one a couple months ago.

Unfortunately, with the way our system is set up, a 'taxpayer revolt' is almost impossible. For those of us with withholding, the only way to stop paying taxes is to quit work.

This may be the twilights' last gleaming; there are dark times ahead.

[Guest nraforlife]

What really concerns me is when the dung hits the fan wll we be able to produce the fighing vehicles, ships, planes, etc. needed to win!

Any by the way, who ever claimed the bailouts are fair. Our elected pimps and whores are going about their business as usual and FAIR isn't part of their vocabulary. This is real life Deliverance and we are not the mountain men

Edited November 19, 2008 by nraforlife

[DavidD]

This whole bailout business really has my dander up.

First the banking mess, now the proposed bailout of the UAW.

Why do I have to pay for it? I live by my means. I did not buy a house I could not afford. I am not the man making bad business decisions and operating off of a failed business plan.

But I will get to help pay for this. I will see little if no benefit from this bailout.

I read in news stories how the bailout of the mortgage business will help those who are getting forclosed on. Why is none of this money being sent to me? Because I am responsible and pay my bills, did not buy a 200K home when all I could afford was a 92K home, I get to suffer from others stupidty.

As far as I am concerned capitalism should run its course. If the auto industry goes belly up then so be it. If somone has to move in with their inlaws because their mortgage ballooned then so be it. Maybe, just maybe they will act smarter next time around.

People everywhere need to man up and support themselves. Stop looking to be on the gov't dime. Which in reality is MY dime. Our kids, grandkids and great grandkids will be paying for this BS. It's a fine example we set for future generations.

You cannot borrow your way out of financial trouble.

I'm feeling your pain brother! It amazes me that the responsible majority are like us but just too afraid to go against the bailout either for political reasons (afraid of loosing votes) or for our own selfish financial reasons (want the economy fixed so we won't suffer). I keep using the old saying "Pay me now or pay me later." Unfortunately, the pay me later will inevitably cost much much more.

[Guest Astra900]

This whole bailout business really has my dander up.

First the banking mess, now the proposed bailout of the UAW.

Why do I have to pay for it? I live by my means. I did not buy a house I could not afford. I am not the man making bad business decisions and operating off of a failed business plan.

But I will get to help pay for this. I will see little if no benefit from this bailout.

I read in news stories how the bailout of the mortgage business will help those who are getting forclosed on. Why is none of this money being sent to me? Because I am responsible and pay my bills, did not buy a 200K home when all I could afford was a 92K home, I get to suffer from others stupidty.

As far as I am concerned capitalism should run its course. If the auto industry goes belly up then so be it. If somone has to move in with their inlaws because their mortgage ballooned then so be it. Maybe, just maybe they will act smarter next time around.

People everywhere need to man up and support themselves. Stop looking to be on the gov't dime. Which in reality is MY dime. Our kids, grandkids and great grandkids will be paying for this BS. It's a fine example we set for future generations.

You cannot borrow your way out of financial trouble.

You're preaching to the choir my brother:cool: I could not agree with you more.

[Guest Ghostrider]

BHO was involved a lot earlier than you might think - he was the lead lawyer for ACORN, suing the banks under the CRA to force them to make loans to bad risks.

The bailout, by the way, is up to about 3 trillion dollars (not 700 billion anymore). It is covering every sort of pork-barrel project imaginable. Oh, it is also covering "O"'s political payola - 124 million to MSNBC.

The 25 billion UAW wants? Oh, sorry, I mean the auto industry? That would be the second 25 billion - they got the first one a couple months ago.

Unfortunately, with the way our system is set up, a 'taxpayer revolt' is almost impossible. For those of us with withholding, the only way to stop paying taxes is to quit work.

This may be the twilights' last gleaming; there are dark times ahead.

I couldn't agree more.

I was keeping it simple in 101 I know these things about bho.

I also kind of suspicion that this might be a "long con" and have soros dirty finger prints all over it. Put the economy in the dumper and people panic and agree to everything.

There is most assuredly something "bad on the wind" and it's coming fast.

Keep your powder dry...

[Guest tarheel78]

Mike,

Minutes ago, I watched a news clip of those CEOs from Detroit before the Congressional panel today. Some Congressman asked all of the point blank "how many of you are willing to commit to immediately sell your corporate jets now and fly commercial back to Detroit?" Not a one of those sheepish sob's raised their hands, just looked down and remained silent. Enough said. It cost $20K for the GM CEO to fly to WDC in the corporate G4 jet; a 1st-class ticket would have cost less than $1k, per the reporter! So much for sacrifice; screw the giveaway, er, bailout, er assistance package.....

[Mike.357]

i really wonder what it will take for the American people to wake up. Some of us obviously seem to get it. Why are the rest being snowed under with all the BS?

tarheel, your post hits the nail on the head. so many people are willing to sacrifice, unfortunately it is not those who have made the mess. No doubt the CEO's who will not fly commercially also will get huge bonuses in spite of the fact that they cry about the straights their businesses are in.

I am fed up but basically powerless to do anything about it. This country and our leaders sicken me.

I really do wonder when a revolution will happen. We need change and hope, but it for sure is not wrapped around Obamanomics.

[Guest 04heritage]

bail outs ......WHAT.....bail me out

[clarky07]

I completely agree. I wrote an article about this last week, Bailout for the Automakers? It really is ridiculous. If 25 billion was really going to turn this industry around private investors would put that money up. All this will do is push the failure further down the road. They have a failed business model and that is all there is to it.

[Guest nj.piney]

auto ceos say it cost them 5 billion a month to meet their obligations, 5 billion x 3 equals 15 billion a month. if they get the bailout they can only survive for 3 months unless they get another loan. anyone think the industry will turn around in 3 months ?

[saintsfanbrian]

And the government will become 80% owners of the auto industry. We will have the Peoples Wagons. (VW) and our Government will be reaping the benefits of every single vehicle sold in this country.

Personally, I say let the big 3 fall. If it weren't for their unions they would be in better position to stay afloat. The companies pay on average $70 an hour for their staff including wages and benefits. I wish my company paid me that much. (I know it isn't going in their pockets. But they are paid more per hour than your average person and they can't be fired.)

[Guest Astra900]

$70 an hour for a POS.

"The old gray mare she ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be...."

[ukerduker]

I had a good laugh when I saw the Dems news conference this afternoon. Here we have all the idiots preaching to us about not letting them fail and giving their BS reasons why. Why can't they just tell us the truth. The Unions got them re-elected and now they need to return the favor.

The laugh came when Barney Frank got up and talked about taking this auto bailout slow, making sure they cover all the details. Behind him were the 2 additional culprits that faciliated the housing market collapse: Chucky Shumer and Chris Dodd. If the public took 2 seconds to actually see what happened, they would probably vote all these bums out. But then again, judging from that recent YouTube video, some people are simply too stupid!!

I think I will collect all my bills for the month of November and send them to Speaker Pelosi's office, asking for my bailout check.

[towerclimber37]

there's nothing quite like having someone make you buy a car, but not giving you the car, to make you love your government

[Guest jackdog]

well said tower.

[DaveTN]

What really concerns me is when the dung hits the fan wll we be able to produce the fighing vehicles, ships, planes, etc. needed to win!

No we won’t. We won’t because we do not have the machine manufactures or the machinists left to do that.

However…. We have ballistic submarines. That means that we do not have to worry about being over run by any country …. ever.

[DaveTN]

Why do I have to pay for it?

It’s not all the unions fault. Unless of course you think autoworkers should be making $5 an hour. It’s headed that way, but of course your wages will be adjusted accordingly; I don’t care if you are a brain surgeon.

That is what a “Global Economy†is; and that’s what most of you said you wanted. Well get ready.... you are about to get exactly what you wanted.

OSHA, EPA, Workman’s comp, Employee health care, 401K, Unemployment insurance. Which of these would you like to get rid of? Because the manufacturers in China that our companies are trying to compete with don’t pay any of these things and therefore we can’t compete on price…..period… it’s impossible.

Our leaders need to stand up and tell Americans that we need to be buying products that are manufactured here. But they don’t have the balls to do that because of the problems it would cause.

A bailout of the car companies won’t do any good unless Americans start buying American built cars. Is there anything in the plans that will cause that to happen?

I buy American ever chance I get. I won’t buy a Glock or an XD because I don’t need to; I can buy an American made S&W for the same money or less. But don’t get me wrong GM and Ford are not our friends in this. They are moving their production to Mexico and Canada and are using mostly foreign made parts. They should not get a dime of taxpayer money until they submit a plan for that to stop and to use American labor.

But that will just increase their costs so we still don’t have a plan to make them profitable. It’s on our shoulders. We bite the bullet and pay more for stuff made here or our economy fails.

Manufacturing Vs. Assembly.

Before you argue that your Nissan was made in Smyrna or your Glock was made Georgia…

The Japanese were not stupid. They new if they put their assembly plants here they would not have to claim to be “American Made†because the Americans that wanted to buy their product would do that for them.

The cost of your car is not in bolting it together. It is in the wages of the skilled trade workers that make the components of it; the Toolmakers, Die Makers, Mold Makers, Sheet metal workers, welders, and the list goes on and on. These jobs are in Japan and China right now. And until we bring them back here our economy can’t recover. We need our manufacturing base.

[clipslinger]

I am a member of a union, we do not make 70 dollars an hour. I do get insurance, which i pay highly for. Nissan and all the jap plants pay what they pay because they dont want their plants to organize. Having worked in manufactoring for close to 28 years with and without representation, i have to say that it is better working for a plant with a union. I dont have to worry about nepetism, or having to do unsafe tasks. They are not perfect but they are needed. The big three are in trouble for the same reason wall street is.GREED, they took to much without putting anything back. My great grand dad used to tell us stories about the unsafe conditions for workers, the fact that if they didnt want to pay you they just didnt. You want sweat shops like in third world countries, will that make us a stronger nation. My union dollar spends just as well as any other. I pay the plumber and the gas man just like anyone else. You want someone to blame, blame the CEO s who are taking your money and laughing all the way to their swiss bank accounts.

[Guest jackdog]

If powerful investors thought that this was a good investment they would put up the money. They have not done this so what does that tell you. I think the detroit dino has reached it's natural point of extinction.

[Guest Astra900]

Greed is only half their problem. The other half is the fact that they make an inferior product when compared to the Japanese owned auto makers. I was always a Ford and Chevy man.

on them, I'll take a Toyota any day. WHY? Because across the board, they give less trouble, run better, longer, and up until recent economic downslides, they generally held a better resale value.

[DaveTN]

The other half is the fact that they make an inferior product when compared to the Japanese owned auto makers. .

That may have been true years ago, but it isn’t now.

[Guest Astra900]

Well, I work on cars all day. I know what I see.