Knoxville Allowing Fair to Prohibit Guns in a Park

[runco]

Meanwhile, Knoxville Police Chief David Rausch told East Tennessee lawmakers that if police are working security at a public venue, that venue should be allowed to ban firearms.

"Where a venue hired law enforcement to secure that venue, we feel there's enough guns there already," Rausch told nine legislators at a breakfast in Rogero's office Wednesday.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local/second-lawsuit-to-be-filed-over-gun-ban-at-tennessee-valley-fair-289ff24f-adfb-53ec-e053-0100007f1f9-364435741.html

What a joke!!!. 

[macville]

I would love to take out an ad in the KNS that says, "Hey Chief Rausch, what part of "but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime." don't you understand? It doesn't mention being able to restrict just because there are cops there.

[G27ATT]

Rausch is an asshat who is playing the part the POS Rogero wants him to play. He might truly be anti 2a but whatever he says publicly is a canned comment straight from her office. I work with the city but not for the city. I've met him many times. He's a "yes" man. Knoxville is becoming the new Nashville. I think it's because of UTK. Another liberal machine. Why else would Rogero even be in office?

[btq96r]

I really liked this one:

Meanwhile, Knoxville Police Chief David Rausch told East Tennessee lawmakers that if police are working security at a public venue, that venue should be allowed to ban firearms.

"Where a venue hired law enforcement to secure that venue, we feel there's enough guns there already," Rausch told nine legislators at a breakfast in Rogero's office Wednesday.

 

Ugh...a double Picard facepalm for this supposed defender of rights.

 

[macville]

I saw a headline in knoxnews.com that a second lawsuit was filed, but I could not read the article because I refuse to subscribe to that rag. Does anyone know anything about it?

 

 

So just discovered this. With the KNS redesign they now allow so many free articles per month or something. However, you can read the article around the pop up easily if you've used up all your articles...or you can go into your web browser and just delete the cookies for knoxnews.com and reset your article reads whenever you want. Yep, the morons at KNS are so stupid that they designed it so their protected site is not really protected at all.

[Glenn]

So just discovered this. With the KNS redesign they now allow so many free articles per month or something. However, you can read the article around the pop up easily if you've used up all your articles...or you can go into your web browser and just delete the cookies for knoxnews.com and reset your article reads whenever you want. Yep, the morons at KNS are so stupid that they designed it so their protected site is not really protected at all.

Just like having a couple of rent-a-cops is not really protected.

[macville]

Just like having a couple of rent-a-cops is not really protected.

 

 

Just ask the late President Reagan about how you can be surrounded by well trained, armed men and still get shot...

[runco]

The Fair is less than week away, can we carry?  Yes or No?

[DaveTN]

On 9/5/2016 at 4:18 PM, runco said:

The Fair is less than week away, can we carry?  Yes or No?

This is what their website says...

http://www.tnvalleyfair.org/safety.html

 

Quote

 

SAFETY

Your safety is our top priority. The Knoxville Police Department is on site all 10 days of the Fair.

If you have a concern an officer is on duty at the Information Booth located next to First Aid.  (See Map for details)

KPD is also on patrol throughout the fairgrounds.

PLEASE NOTE: No weapons of any kind are permitted at the Tennessee Valley Fair at any time.

All entrants are subject to search before entering the fairgrounds.

No backpacks will be permitted on the fairgrounds.

We also do not allow re-entry after 10:00 p.m

 

 

[JayC]

Why the TFA doesn't move for an emergency injunction is beyond me.

[JAB]

I wonder if there will be metal detectors.  "Subject to search" doesn't sound like everyone entering will be searched.  If any forum member goes to the fair early on maybe we can get some more details about their gate 'security'.  Personally - if I even bother going this year - if they aren't doing detailed 'searches' or wanding I will carry, anyway.  Their B.S. 'rules' do not in any way override state law.  If I am expected to obey the law then I expect Knoxville and the fair to do so, as well.

Honestly, the few times I have gone over the last, several years it has only been because I have friends who asked me to go with them - I have one friend who really enjoys the demolition derby so she often wants to go on that night.  The fair has gone down the crapper and is a sad parody of what it was even when I was in high school back in the late '80s.  It used to take up space on both sides of Magnolia and had plenty of entertaining and fun things to do even if you didn't want to ride the rides.  Now there is much less going on and I am quite honestly very leery of getting on the rides.  Of course, I was nearly killed on one of the rides back in high school even when the place was better.  A friend and I were riding the 'pirate ship' and just when it swung up high enough that we were looking directly at the ground the security bar that holds you in the seat unlatched and swung open.  I literally started falling forward out of the seat but managed to grab the bar and slam it closed.  I slammed it so hard that when the ride stopped the tenders had to come out with tools and take the latch off so that we could get out.  Many of the rides at Lake Winnie (where I went a couple of weeks ago) are old but seem well maintained.  I rode a log-flume like ride there that is 100 years old and never felt nervous about it.  I don't trust the ones at the fair which are largely tended by people who smell like they went swimming at a distillery and look like they are so drunk that they can't see straight.

Edited September 7, 2016 by JAB

[300winmag]

If there aren't metal detectors, then I'd just carry.  No one will know and you are legal if the fair is on park grounds.  Worst case you are told to leave.  At least now you can't get a weapons charge if you have a permit on park grounds.

[i1afli]

Went to the fair tonight (fri., 9/9) and there were no metal detectors, wanding, patting, or frisking. There was a KPD officer at the gate and I think I saw them searching a lady's bag but not sure.

Was the usual entertaining crowd...always fun to people-watch there. 

[Ron_TN]

Hello!!   Gun law dummy here <<<<.  Could or would the NRA intervene on a matter such as this if given the facts?

[DaveTN]

6 hours ago, Ron_TN said:

Hello!!   Gun law dummy here <<<<.  Could or would the NRA intervene on a matter such as this if given the facts?

Possibly in legislative matters. If someone calls them about this; they will answer your questions. When I was arrested in Illinois for having a gun in my car I wanted to challenge the arrest as a violation of the 2nd amendment. I went to the NRA and they told me they don’t get involved in criminal cases. I have never belonged to the NRA since. 

[Garufa]

This is interesting.  TFA members went to Chilhowee park to gather evidence in an effort to prevent their lawsuit against the city from being thrown out.  KPD complied by threatening arrest.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/crime-courts/police-promise-to-arrest-violators-of-gun-ban-at-tennessee-valley-fair-3c68160f-66ce-4b6f-e053-01000-393343221.html

[Dolomite_supafly]

The Knoxville fair is in the bad part of town and less than a mile from the really bad parts of town. 

No way I would be caught after dark anywhere along Magnolia without a gun. When they tell people not to bring firearms the criminals are listening. It is an indicator when LE run stings the entire week of the fair to minimize the exposure of the patrons to the criminal element that is normally operating in the area. 

 

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

This is interesting.  TFA members went to Chilhowee park to gather evidence in an effort to prevent their lawsuit against the city from being thrown out.  KPD complied by threatening arrest.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/crime-courts/police-promise-to-arrest-violators-of-gun-ban-at-tennessee-valley-fair-3c68160f-66ce-4b6f-e053-01000-393343221.html

Not surprising in the least.  I would have been surprised if the police hadn't indicated that they would enforce the cities BS interpretation of the law.

If TFA has a specific fund set up to support this lawsuit, I'd like to know and make a contribution.  Maybe @Worriedman can fill us in on that.

[JAB]

You just have to love the bs claim that Chilhowee Park isn't a park.  What I would really like to see is this whole thing absolutely bite Knoxville and other cities/counties/municipalities that are trying to pull this crap right on the tender part of their collective ass.  Instead of, "We can ban guns at Chilhowee Park because that park isn't a park but instead is a, " public assembly, entertainment and educational venue used for civic events and by contractors for special events like the Tennessee Valley Fair," being allowed to fly wouldn't it be great if the state legislators said, "Okay, y'all want a pissing contest?  Well, then, here you go..." and proceed to pass a law removing any and all restrictions from any and all facilities managed, funded, marketed or otherwise overseen by any city or county government or any other local municipality including public assembly, entertainment and educational venues used for civic events and by contractors for special events like the Tennessee Valley Fair (yeah, I think it would be awesome if the state legislature put their exact words in the new law.)  In other words, saying, "Okay, if you want to be asshats about it by saying that Chilhowee Park isn't a park and you can ban guns just like at the Civic Coliseum then we'll simply remove your authority to ban at the Civic Coliseum and other, similar locations, as well.  There, problem solved."

Edited September 14, 2016 by JAB

[macville]

2 minutes ago, JAB said:

You just have to love the bs claim that Chilhowee Park isn't a park.  What I would really like to see is this whole thing absolutely bite Knoxville and other cities/counties/municipalities that are trying to pull this crap right on the tender part of their collective ass.  Instead of, "We can ban guns at Chilhowee because it isn't a park but instead is a, " public assembly, entertainment and educational venue used for civic events and by contractors for special events like the Tennessee Valley Fair," being allowed to fly wouldn't it be great if the state legislators said, "Okay, y'all want a pissing contest?  Well, then, here you go..." and proceed to pass a law removing any and all restrictions from any and all facilities managed, funded, marketed or otherwise overseen by any city or county government or any other local municipality.  In other words, saying, "Okay, if you want to be asshats about it by saying that Chilhowee Park isn't a park and you can ban guns just like at the Civic Coliseum then we'll simply remove your authority to ban at the Civic Coliseum and other, similar locations, as well.  There, problem solved."

Actually, according to the AG's opinion from last year, a ban at the civic coliseum wouldn't fly either as it's a recreational venue. So even if chilhowee isn't a park, you can't argue it's not a civic/recreational venue.

I'll be shocked if the lawsuit doesn't end in our favor, but the mayor and KPD chief aren't probably going to even get a slap on the wrists. They should be serving jail time already after last year refusal, but ya know...

[macville]

BTW, does anyone know what the listing at the fair banning guns/weapons looks like? Does it meet the requirements that went into effect July 1st? We know the sign was only posted a week ago, so it would be required to meet the new requirements.

[JAB]

3 minutes ago, macville said:

Actually, according to the AG's opinion from last year, a ban at the civic coliseum wouldn't fly either as it's a recreational venue. So even if chilhowee isn't a park, you can't argue it's not a civic/recreational venue.

I'll be shocked if the lawsuit doesn't end in our favor, but the mayor and KPD chief aren't probably going to even get a slap on the wrists. They should be serving jail time already after last year refusal, but ya know...

Are there procedures for impeachment or censure of mayors?  If so, Rogero should at the very least face censure (because, like you, I know there won't be any criminal charges for violation of state law.)

[macville]

I also love how Haslam and AG Slattery are sitting this one out. Isn't it their job to make sure the state laws are enforced? Why should citizens have to be the ones suing to get our laws enforced?

[chances R]

Problem is one can be arrested, sign or no sign.  Doesn't have to make sense, and it has already been documented as to the arrest would happen.

[M1_Garand]

I went to the fair last year and conceal carried my normal setup through the front gate past the KPD guard.

I honestly didn't see any posting on the way in, and assumed the city had changed their mind and decided to follow the law. It was a non-event.