Knoxville Allowing Fair to Prohibit Guns in a Park

[phil1979]

Haslam loves the 2nd Amendment. He just wants it "clarified". :rolling eyes:

Edited September 13, 2015 by phil1979

[tnhawk]

I likely wouldn't attend the fair in Knoxville, Nashville or Memphis anyway.  However I sent emails informing the officials that they will not see any money from me while denying my rights. 

[E4 No More]

Wouldn't the fact that K'ville named it a "park" define it as a park regardless of who manages it?

[peejman]

Wouldn't the fact that K'ville named it a "park" define it as a park regardless of who manages it?

You're using reason and logic again.... Those do not apply to legal matters, especially when the government is involved.

[macville]

Wouldn't the fact that K'ville named it a "park" define it as a park regardless of who manages it?

 

Wouldn't the fact that it's a recreational event in a recreational facility apply???? Yeah, you are making way too much simple logic for those people.

[DaveTN]

This is the fault of the legislature. This is 2015 there is no excuse for our legislators to not be able to write laws that are clear. They had to know they were going to get push back on this. Oh well, it will keep the attorneys busy.

[macville]

This is the fault of the legislature. This is 2015 there is no excuse for our legislators to not be able to write laws that are clear. They had to know they were going to get push back on this. Oh well, it will keep the attorneys busy.

 

What do you think is unclear about the law? The AG, who is only semi-conservative and doesn't seem to be very gun friendly, said in his opinion that, "The language of Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1311 in both its prior version and as amended by Chapter 250 is clear and unambiguous."

 

I don't think this is about being unclear, I believe this is willful disregard of the law by the City Attorney and Mayor. Honestly, I think they are just gambling that no one will sue, and if they do, it will take forever in court. The one thing to notice is that they always avoided using the word "recreation" when talking about the park. It was always, "it's not a park, it's an entertainment, civic, and public assembly facility." They were focusing on one thing trying run one pass the citizens. Really they were trying to avoid "recreation" like the plague because the park is quite clearly a recreational facility. I mean, when was the last time that something was entertainment but recreation? (Hint: never.) Old Merriam-Webster defines recreation as, "something people do to relax or have fun : activities done for enjoyment" If Chilhowee is not a place that hosts events that people do to relax or have fun, then what the crap is the fair then???? Let alone all the other recreational events they host.

[vontar]

Chilhowee Park.  Guns are legal is park.  They are just trying to do some legal gymnastics. 

 

Question, wasn't it no guns allowed in Knoxville parks that they used to keep people from carrying to Chilhowee park in the first place?

 

reminds me of my trip to Knoxville not all that many hours ago.  Concealed and no one notice.

 

 

*********

Legal gymastics

Zoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

A zoo (short for zoological park, zoological garden, or animal park, and also called a menagerie) is a facility in which animals are confined within enclosures, displayed to the public, and in which they may also be bred.

 

So it is OK to carry in the Knoxville Zoo (zoological park)?

Edited September 13, 2015 by vontar

[300winmag]

Now people are seeing that some of these so called pro gun Republicans really aren't that pro gun when they are worried about people WITH PERMITS carrying at certain locations.  They want to hassle the honest folks who are just trying to protect themselves when walking across a dark parking lot after going to the fair.  Are they really so stupid to think that people with permits are going to cause problems at the fair? 

 

Think about how these lukewarm Republicans would flip out over people WITHOUT permits carrying in public if we had Constitutional carry.  You'd see Constitutional carry have so many restrictions on it that it would be about like having a DC or Illinois carry permit.

 

I think now we are seeing proof that we are lucky to get reforms done within the permit system.  Even that has been tough with so many of the lukewarm Republicans that only give gun rights support when it is convenient for a vote.

[chances R]

Question........For one to be arrested one has to break a law of some sort.  Since the new parks bill etc was passed and other local ordinances were declared void, what specific law would one be breaking to be arrested for carrying a firearm at the fair? 

[300winmag]

If the fair is in a park, it doesn't look like you would be breaking the law.  Maybe you could be trespassed?

[Oh Shoot]

Question........For one to be arrested one has to break a law of some sort.  Since the new parks bill etc was passed and other local ordinances were declared void, what specific law would one be breaking to be arrested for carrying a firearm at the fair? 

 

Who knows where the stupidity would stop? Rogero and Rausch didn't even realize that park carry became legal in 2014 with the preemption law change,  so maybe they'd try for this, which is still in city code:

 

"Sec. 19-104. - Carrying dangerous weapon.

Any person who shall carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk, bowie knife or other knife of like form, shape or size, sword cane, icepick, slingshot, blackjack, brass knuckles, Spanish stiletto, or fountain pen pistol or gun, or like instrument containing a firing pin and capable of shooting tear gas or pistol cartridges, or any pistol or revolver of any kind whatever, except an Army or Navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand, or any other dangerous weapon, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

 

- OS

[DaveTN]

Question........For one to be arrested one has to break a law of some sort.  Since the new parks bill etc was passed and other local ordinances were declared void, what specific law would one be breaking to be arrested for carrying a firearm at the fair?

My guess would be if they are claiming the property isn’t covered as a park; they will have signs up and use 39-17-1359 to stop and warn you; then give you a trespass warning.

I doubt they will be arresting anyone unless someone decides to be a test dummy and refuses to leave.

[phil1979]

If a licensed open carrier refused to leave, but was polite in his assertion of his rights, would the TFA back him up if he falsely received a trespassing charge?

 

I'm so glad we have GCO here in Georgia. They are suing on my behalf in two lawsuits even though I was not arrested.

[phil1979]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/sen-briggs-says-guns-should-be-allowed-at-tennessee-valley-fair_67244824

 

Kudos to Senator Richard Briggs! He will discuss with other legislators what can be done to help enforce the law.

 

I know, I know! (raising hand) - add FINES for government officials' pockets for violating state preemption, such as Florida has done.

[phil1979]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/30030010/woman-shot-in-hand-in-dog-park

 

https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandActionTNNashville

 

"Guns in Parks-Thanks TN General Assembly"

 

Well, the Mad Momz are at it again. Chances are the bullet probably came from a non-licensed gang-banging fool, and maybe even from outside the park. But blaming the legislature and licensed carriers regardless of the lack of any logical association with criminal activity is their game and they are going to play it.

[chances R]

My guess would be if they are claiming the property isn’t covered as a park; they will have signs up and use 39-17-1359 to stop and warn you; then give you a trespass warning.I doubt they will be arresting anyone unless someone decides to be a test dummy and refuses to leave.

Could be except for (f). Seems clearly stated to me.

[DaveTN]

If a licensed open carrier refused to leave, but was polite in his assertion of his rights, would the TFA back him up if he falsely received a trespassing charge?

I would want to talk to my own attorney before doing that. I’m not sure they would be required to rule on the validity of this law to convict you for trespass if you refused to leave.

[DaveTN]

Could be except for (f). Seems clearly stated to me.

Both of the sections that apply seem clear; but not to the city.

[macville]

So an opinion has been asked for of the AG about the Childhowee Park situation. But hey, Knoxville has ignored the last opinion, so why wouldn't they ignore this opinion. It does bring up a good question about suing and would public money be used to defend a lawsuit.

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2426471-chilhowee-park-rep-eddie-smith-ag-request-1.html

[Oh Shoot]

So an opinion has been asked for of the AG about the Childhowee Park situation. But hey, Knoxville has ignored the last opinion, so why wouldn't they ignore this opinion. It does bring up a good question about suing and would public money be used to defend a lawsuit.

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2426471-chilhowee-park-rep-eddie-smith-ag-request-1.html

 

Bit surprised Eddie would ask. Or maybe not. He did a "present, not voting" on the park/school revision in the first place.

 

We had an email exchange about that -- I'll give him credit for standing up and responding in depth though. His stance wasn't really strictly anti-2A per se, though, but conflicted opinion between gun rights and local authority, so just didn't vote.

 

I did vote for him though, as he replaced one of the biggest commies in the legislature, Gloria Johnson.

 

- OS

[Mike.357]

How do they justify allowing guns when there are gunshows but not during a fair?  I have openly bought a gun on the steps. In full view of KPD.  And now I'd be subject to police interference?

[phil1979]

I really like Rep. Eddie Smith's questions to the AG! Especially regarding whether public funds would be spent to defend the city in a case where the city violated state law. Let the city officials pay from their own pockets!

[phil1979]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/politiknox/guns-are-allowed-at-worlds-fair-park-city-spokesman-says_57468735

 

Liston Matthews brilliantly calls out Mayor Rogero's silly park word games in this article where Knoxville says guns are ok to carry at the World's Fair Park, but not at Chilhowee Park.

[BrasilNuts]

Didn't see this posted here or anywhere else on TGO.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/30025038/man-charged-with-assault-and-bodily-harm-after-fight-breaks-out-at-delta-fair