BATFE is Warrantlessly Confiscating Legally Transferred Destructive Devices

[JohnC]

BATFE is Warrantlessly Confiscating Legally Transferred Destructive Devices:
 

This topic has been one that is particularly sore to me. Over the past several years, ATF has been making a systematic and concerted effort to reduce the availability of pyrotechnics, small arms, and ammunition to private persons through regulatory rulings and tech branch interpretations. Their modus operandi has been to reclassify previously legal items as contraband and then subsequently track down and confiscate the same items.
Several years ago, some of you may remember the sudden disappearance of M18 and M83 style smoke canisters. No law was passed banning them, and many mistakenly believed that the BATFE had reclassified them as Destructive Devices. The truth, in fact, is that the ATF determined that the fuze for said canisters was held by the explosives branch, rather than NFA branch, to be a regulated explosive- requiring a Federal Explosives License and approved storage magazine to receive or have in one’s possession said items.

In 2013, BATFE began the systematic collection of M228 training practice fuzes (3-5 second training grenade fuzes which contain less than ¼ ounce of black powder). ATF declared the fuzes to be a public safety risk, and determined that they are a regulated explosive requiring a Federal Explosives License and approved storage magazine to receive or possess. This was done with blatant disregard to the law, which exempts items determined to be “articles pyrotechnic” by the Department of Transportation from the ATF’s purview. Such fuzes had been determined articles pyrotechnic by DOT, but ATF disagreed, and disregarded the classification of the fuzes as a device outside their lane. Individuals found to possess the above items are having them confiscated without compensation under the premise that ATF does not have to compensate you for contraband fuzes any more than DEA has to compensate a drug dealer for the confiscation of his cocaine.

This year, ATF has essentially struck the killing blow against the Destructive Device community. ATF released a letter (posted here with the addressee redacted) which should be found particularly alarming by all members of the firearms community, and which effectively kills the destructive device community. It reads, in part:

[…(Code Federal Regulations)…generally exempts “Small arms ammunition and components of small arms ammunition” from the provisions of 27 CFR, Part 555 – Commerce in Explosives. The regulation…defines “ammunition” as “Small arms ammunition or…smokeless propellants designed for use in small arms…”]

ATF, in making this determination, has effectively killed larger than .50 caliber weapons for private ownership. Both on this forum, and through fellow destructive device collectors, I have seen or heard reports of ATF collecting DD ammo- to include inert projectile chalk training rounds, flares, and smoke.

The precedence here cannot be allowed to stand. These may seem like small things, but the culmination of many small things is coming to a head. We, as a community, need to band together and take some risk here. People are afraid of what will happen if they try to stand their ground. They should be. Earlier this year, prior to leaving for Africa, a half dozen men showed up at my house armed and without a warrant to confiscate legally purchased items of one of the above types. As I had paperwork showing the same items were legally acquired and possessed, I asked about a warrant, it was made clear that I’d be “resisting” at that point, and that they weren’t leaving there without what they came for.

It is a hard thing to stand up to something like this, and sometimes you do indeed have to choose your battles. It is a nearly impossible thing to do alone. I hope each of you can strive to put pressure on your legislators to end this madness, and more importantly, that you will band together with those around you and be willing to meet unnecessary and unjust force with commensurate and appropriate response when necessary. I’ve thought a long time about this, and had conversations with a number of my fellow compatriots serving here alongside me- and more than a few are in consensus at this point. I never thought it would be over flares and what is essentially plastic eggs full of chalk when I’ve lived through the assault weapons ban, but I’ve reached my limit and my line in the sand. I would invite you to join me, whether publically or privately, and determine that we will do our best to find a peaceable redress for the extra-legislative “regulatory” infringements on our rights, but ultimately to pledge to endure whatever consequences are necessary to ensure: this far, and no farther.

 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1772219_The_Loss_of_our_Cannon_and_Powder__or_ATF_killing_the_Destructive_Device_Community.html

[Johnny Rotten]

And I was just about to ready to buy this...LOL

this bad boy shoots $100 bills​

 

http://www.urban-armory.com/cart/proddetail.php?prod=mk19

 

I heard they were going after 37mm stuff to.​

Edited September 1, 2015 by Johnny Rotten

[gjohnsoniv]

Guess it was bound to happen sooner or later to justify themselves after the M855 failure.

[JohnC]

And I was just about to ready to buy this...LOL
this bad boy shots $100 bills​
 
http://www.urban-armory.com/cart/proddetail.php?prod=mk19
 
I heard they were going after 37mm stuff to.​

Heck, I was wanting an Anzio Ironworks 20mm, but not anymore. No way I'm spending over $12k only to have BATFE come steal it at gunpoint without a warrant. :shake:

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm Edited September 1, 2015 by JohnC

[Johnny Rotten]

Heck, I was wanting an Anzio Ironworks 20mm, but not anymore. No way I'm spending over $12k only to have BATFE come steal it at gunpoint without a warrant. :shake:

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

 

I'm amazed they let us have 50BMG.

Now where will you shoot a 20MM?

WWTWD?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What Would Terry Walden Do?

He only outlawed 50's never said anything about 20MM now did he!!! You bring the rifle and I'll bring the Tannerite  << oops outlawed, good to go >>​Shock Wave exploding targets...

[JohnC]

I'm amazed they let us have 50BMG.
Now where will you shoot a 20MM?
WWTWD?
 
 
What Would Terry Walden Do?
He only outlawed 50's never said anything about 20MM now did he!!! You bring the rifle and I'll bring the Tannerite  << oops outlawed, good to go >>​Shock Wave exploding targets...

I'd shoot the 20mm anywhere I'd shoot the 50 BMG. :rofl:

If the constitution were followed as originally intended by the founders, we could buy any weapons we wanted and could afford. :up:

I don't mind BGC's to make sure your not violent or adjudicated mentally ill, but I view the rest as unconstitutional. :) Edited September 1, 2015 by JohnC

[DaveTN]

BATFE is Warrantlessly Confiscating Legally Transferred Destructive Devices:

You want us to believe BATF showed up a guy’s house and seized weapons without a warrant based on an Arfcom post?

[JohnC]

You want us to believe BATF showed up a guy’s house and seized weapons without a warrant based on an Arfcom post?

I don't get why you troll posts with the default attitude that the Govt will never violate the law or folks rights. It has been shown on many occasions they do stupid illegal stuff.

But here you go if AR15.com isn't enough for you, Dave.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/08/gun-trust-and-foreiture-of-weapons-under-protest.html

https://youtu.be/bt1772itqtE

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/04/atf-rules-40mm-practice-chalk-rounds-are-explosives-destructive-devices/

Edit, another: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/foghorn/atf-re-classifies-certain-flares-and-40mm-chalk-rounds-as-explosives-begins-confiscation/

Google has more... Edited September 2, 2015 by JohnC