Need help making final decision S&w 642 or 640

[Rock.45]

My vote is for the 642

[BimmerFreak]

Get the 642, or if you want to be a baller; 340PD

[Guest flyfishtn]

642 +1 I have had mine for a couple of weeks now and love it! Very easy to carry all day.

[Guest Idahoser]

If you're making the decision before purchase, rather than deciding how to carry what you have, a little philosophy is in order to help make the choice.

We're not talking about target shooting here. These are belly guns. Fired from inside a jacket pocket. Or pressed into the belly of an attacker, while wrestling around on the ground. Sights are superfluous. "Aiming" is a joke. Cocking the hammer for a single action shot is ridiculous. Having a hammer spur just makes you think you have something you don't, and that's dangerous.

The original, exposed hammer Chief's Special (hammer spur can still be bobbed for pocket carry) would stand the best chance of fouling if fired inside clothing or pressed against a body.

The shrouded hammer Bodyguard reduces chance of snags when drawing from the pocket, and is less likely to foul if fired inside clothing or pressed against a body. However it does have a pad you can use to cock the revolver if you can keep from slipping and letting the hammer fall.

The "hammerless" Centennial eliminates snags for pocket carry. It is the perfect pocket gun. Even if he had his hands on it, you should still be able to fire. Try that with an auto pistol!

All of these designs are available in dark or bright finish, all-steel, aluminum (Airweight) and 'unobtainium' (AirLite). AirLites are made with Scandium frames, and either Titanium or steel cylinders/barrels.

A steel pocket gun shooting .38 Special should be acceptable to almost any shooter. The Airweight was the original pocket gun, should be shootable with practice. The Airlite's I haven't shot yet.

Steel and Scandium guns can be made to accept .357 Magnum. This is a handful in a steel gun of this small size and mass. I can only imagine shooting magnums in an AirLite. Sounds more like torture. I don't like the idea of carrying something I'm afraid to shoot at the range. That's why I got rid of my Kel-Tec P40, it hurt A LOT to shoot it. Required a vise-like grip to function, although a revolver shouldn't require that. You simply can't count on remembering something like that in a shooting situation.

And that's what all this is about really, giving yourself a chance in what will probably be the most intense danger you'll ever face, if it ever happens. It's only a tool, choose a good one and learn to use it but it's no guarantee you'll even be able to use it, much less have it function correctly. You can only try.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

Get the 642, or if you want to be a baller; 340PD

nooo thanks.

http://www.thegunzone.com/sw340pd.html

From a police armorer friend, Bob Rosenthal, Suffolk County, NY…

I was inspecting this gun today when I noticed the guy spun the cylinder each time he opened it.

I questioned him and he said the cylinder "stuck."

What immediate became apparent was that the stop was worn off from the frame and the cylinder had the ability to fall off to the rear when open.

Not good!

Upon closer examination I observed a crack under the barrel where it screws into the frame. The crack was full depth and came out under the forcing cone.

Realizing it was a .357 Magnum in alloy I thought it might not be good for him to fire this gun today… or any other.

The guy apparently had problems opening the gun since day one. Either he bent the crane or it came that way. We will never know but I would suspect he was part of the problem.

I told him send it back to Smith & Wesson.

Nice, if dubiously practical little 12-ounce revolver constructed of a Scandium alloy frame, barrel shroud and yoke, a titanium cylinder, and a stainless steel barrel liner… clearly meant to be carried a lot, and shot… not!

I first ran into this particular model several years ago when the local police chief asked me if I had any .357 Magnum ammunition on hand… he'd been given one of these "feather*weights" to try out, and while he liked the way it carried, he now wanted to take it for a spin on the range.

Back in the mid-'90s, while preparing a gunzine article1 I undertook an extended range work-out with a pair of 15½-ounce S&W Centennial-style J-frames: my own uncatalogued "transitional" Model 042, and a Performance Center Model 4602 with two MagNaPorts in the barrel… and it wasn't fun! About the only rounds that didn't cause a wince were the 125-grain non-Plus P Nyclads and the 3D/Impact 100-grain double-ended wadcutters, so I knew what the Chief was in for with full-power magnums in a gun that was 3½-ounces lighter!

As a simple act of kindness, I tried to tout him onto some +P .38 Specials, but he wouldn't hear of it!

Gotta try some magnums… whattya got that's more than

120-grains3

?

I took him down an MTM ammo wallet with five rounds each of Federal's vaunted 125-grain JHP, the garden variety Winchester 158-grain LSWCHP and, just to teach him some humility, the genuinely hairy IMI 170-grain SJHP4.

"What do I owe you for these?" the Chief asked, but any payment was declined because confidence was reasonably high that he'd be returning 11 or 12 unfired rounds.

Several days later 13 of the rounds were returned, with thanks. He told me that he was going to keep the S&W Model 340, that he was definitely going the +P route, and he was keeping the two pieces of fired brass as souvenirs of his visit to the "house of pain!"

There's no way around the fact that while the S&W Scandium series of ultra-light snubbies are impressive technological advances in the realm of being "easy-to-carry," they will never make it as a "fun gun," so much so that their actual practicality/utility is questioned.

Which goes straight to the crux of a long-standing philosophical problem… yes!, the objective is to have a gun!, but who wants a gun that is that painful to shoot?!? How the hell does one do any recurring practice with it? The textured rubber stocks help absorb some of the recoil, of course, but too often impede smooth retrieval from concealment as they tend to "cling" to any covering garment6.

And, back to the top, how good is the metallurgical technology if the guns break this way?

A follow-up after resurgent Smith & Wesson has had an opportunity to be heard from.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

I have both (640 and 642) I carry 642 when I pocket carry and the 640 when I belt carry (with an outer garment to cover gun and holster.) I fire Hornady 125 gr XTP/JHP standard pressure in both. I like both guns, but if I could have only one it would be the 642. It is more flexible in carry modes and more practical for all day carry. 640 is very heavy for pocket carry. The only other gun I pocket carry is a Taurus 85 ULBH which is only 2 oz heavier than the 642.

Which do you enjoy shooting more? would you say it's the same recoil almost, I don't really intend to shoot +P for practice at least not until I get used to it. I heard taurus makes stuff cheaply(though i have never seen evidence) Does the taurus hold up well?

[Guest Idahoser]

Taurus, Rossi, Charter, this 'tier' must be taken on a case by case basis. Their ownership has changed over the years, so you can't use an experience with one gun to decide about the next one.

For example I have enjoyed shooting a Rossi 720, which is what the S&W 696 should have been. .44 Special, 3", 5-shot. The S&W version doesn't meet the description because it's an L-frame, where the Rossi is more like a K-frame. I like that gun so much that I bought a second one. This is important because it's not covered by any service program. Taurus bought the name Rossi, but they don't service guns made before that. Not even for a price, and no parts are available.

Charter Arms used to have a good reputation, but the new Charter 2000 I played with stunk. That was the day I bought the used Rossi. Felt good, and find later it shoots GREAT, much better than the Charter.

Not to say a S&W, Colt or Ruger couldn't break. But they'll still service it no matter how old it is, and you have a fair certainty it was put together well in most cases. The aluminum framed guns did have a crack you must check for, in the frame below the barrel. Happened during assembly, I understand. Somehow the get all the way to a buyer before anybody noticed. There have been other little examples but for the most part they make good guns and they fix 'em if they break. That's what you pay for that costs more than a Rossi or Taurus. Late model Taurus has a very good reputation, by the way.

You will now hear a great uproar because I mention "The Lock".

Lot of folks complain very loudly that there are those of us who notice the lock. We don't like the lock, in fact there are many of us who WILL NOT BUY a gun with the lock. These guys hate us for that, I can think of reasons but it's not for me to say. Suffice it to say, I think you should know about the lock and make up your own mind.

There IS a new batch of 442/642 without the lock.

Let's see, how many kittens did I just kill?

[Oh Shoot]

...Charter Arms used to have a good reputation, but the new Charter 2000 I played with stunk....

Let's see, how many kittens did I just kill?

None killed, one perhaps bruised...

General take on Charter is that in its present incarnation, the guns are back to pre "Charter 2000" quality, now again simply stamped "Charter Arms", although I agree with your assessment of them being in a somewhat lower "tier" of quality. Also, I'm unable to find current warranty info from their site.

- OS

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

Taurus, Rossi, Charter, this 'tier' must be taken on a case by case basis. Their ownership has changed over the years, so you can't use an experience with one gun to decide about the next one.

For example I have enjoyed shooting a Rossi 720, which is what the S&W 696 should have been. .44 Special, 3", 5-shot. The S&W version doesn't meet the description because it's an L-frame, where the Rossi is more like a K-frame. I like that gun so much that I bought a second one. This is important because it's not covered by any service program. Taurus bought the name Rossi, but they don't service guns made before that. Not even for a price, and no parts are available.

Charter Arms used to have a good reputation, but the new Charter 2000 I played with stunk. That was the day I bought the used Rossi. Felt good, and find later it shoots GREAT, much better than the Charter.

Not to say a S&W, Colt or Ruger couldn't break. But they'll still service it no matter how old it is, and you have a fair certainty it was put together well in most cases. The aluminum framed guns did have a crack you must check for, in the frame below the barrel. Happened during assembly, I understand. Somehow the get all the way to a buyer before anybody noticed. There have been other little examples but for the most part they make good guns and they fix 'em if they break. That's what you pay for that costs more than a Rossi or Taurus. Late model Taurus has a very good reputation, by the way.

You will now hear a great uproar because I mention "The Lock".

Lot of folks complain very loudly that there are those of us who notice the lock. We don't like the lock, in fact there are many of us who WILL NOT BUY a gun with the lock. These guys hate us for that, I can think of reasons but it's not for me to say. Suffice it to say, I think you should know about the lock and make up your own mind.

There IS a new batch of 442/642 without the lock.

Let's see, how many kittens did I just kill?

I don't think I've seen any 642/442 with a lock myself, I thought this was because the trigger is heavy. Is it like an internal lock with a key?

[Oh Shoot]

I don't think I've seen any 642/442 with a lock myself, I thought this was because the trigger is heavy. Is it like an internal lock with a key?

It's the small hole above the cylinder release button. Locks it down period for storage or to make inoperable for kids in the home, whatever. Not like an on/off safety. Yes, uses a key. Can fail during shooting, also. How often is a matter of debate.

[Almond27]

another vote for the 642

[I_Like_Pie]

GT distributers here in Chattanooga has as many as you want for $369. If you then layer the $30 rebate you can have one for under $400 out the door N-I-B.

Have sent many, many people there due to great prices and great salespeople. They had Mossberg 590 pump shotguns for $169 earlier this year...Saw one at the last gunshow for $350. If you are/have been in the military you can get a Glock 26 for under $400. Don't waste your time on their website as they have it set up for multi state sales to police officers...If you visit in person the general public can buy from them.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

It's the small hole above the cylinder release button. Locks it down period for storage or to make inoperable for kids in the home, whatever. Not like an on/off safety. Yes, uses a key. Can fail during shooting, also. How often is a matter of debate.

crap, I've only seen them on the back under hammers.

has anyone had a problem with this personally even if you turned it off???

[Oh Shoot]

crap, I've only seen them on the back under hammers.

has anyone had a problem with this personally even if you turned it off???

The incidence is surely quite low percentage wise, but appears to be significant in total numbers. Certainly, if YOU were in that low percentage in a SHTF situation, you would be unimpressed with those odds, to say the least.

Here's often highlighted long "documentation" thread from SW forum:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/228102718

- OS

[Guest Idahoser]

crap, I've only seen them on the back under hammers.

That's where Taurus puts theirs.

has anyone had a problem with this personally even if you turned it off???

See the smith-wessonforum thread referenced above, but to me it's a chance I'm not willing to take as long as I have options. You'll hear plenty of people say "but other guns break, that didn't have locks" and they're right. To me it increases the risk, and I'm also punishing the maker for putting it there UNNECESSARILY.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

That's where Taurus puts theirs.See the smith-wessonforum thread referenced above, but to me it's a chance I'm not willing to take as long as I have options. You'll hear plenty of people say "but other guns break, that didn't have locks" and they're right. To me it increases the risk, and I'm also punishing the maker for putting it there UNNECESSARILY.

Do you think it'll be hard to find 642 with no lock?, I've seen 442 no locks online. But I am extremely paranoid at all times, and don't trust (anyone) ffl's touching my stuff :-\

Guns that don't have locks break?

[Guest eyebedam]

Do you think it'll be hard to find 642 with no lock?, I've seen 442 no locks online. But I am extremely paranoid at all times, and don't trust (anyone) ffl's touching my stuff :-\

Guns that don't have locks break?

Thats going a bit far with the paranoid thing. Whoever handles your FFL transfer will have to touch the gun. It would prob be best for you to find a local vendor. Esp if your truly concerned witht he gun breaking. Atleast then if you have a good relationship with your local gun dealer they could possibly make the process of sending your gun back for repair a little easier on you. I see your in Nashville. I would suggest going to see Philip @ Goodlettsville Gun Shop. Hes a sponser here. He can have you a 642 in a day or so. He will also make you a good TGO price on it & would probably answer any & all questions you would have about the gun before you left his shop with it. The more you sit there & price check online & listen to everyones thoughts on the matter the more confused you will get.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

Thats going a bit far with the paranoid thing. Whoever handles your FFL transfer will have to touch the gun. It would prob be best for you to find a local vendor. Esp if your truly concerned witht he gun breaking. Atleast then if you have a good relationship with your local gun dealer they could possibly make the process of sending your gun back for repair a little easier on you. I see your in Nashville. I would suggest going to see Philip @ Goodlettsville Gun Shop. Hes a sponser here. He can have you a 642 in a day or so. He will also make you a good TGO price on it & would probably answer any & all questions you would have about the gun before you left his shop with it. The more you sit there & price check online & listen to everyones thoughts on the matter the more confused you will get.

Yea I know,my husband loves it.

I am in rutherford co. Not familiar with area though, only been here a year.

I really liked one guy at Guncity USA in Nashville,he knew all his stuff but it's 30 away.

[Guest Idahoser]

Do you think it'll be hard to find 642 with no lock?,

Yes. I'd do with the lock while I looked for one but I enjoy collecting them, that may not make sense for you. I didn't mean you should never buy one with a lock. I would if it's all I could find, but I'd be looking to replace it when I found a pre-lock version. It's still a gun, just not the "one".

But I am extremely paranoid at all times, and don't trust (anyone) ffl's touching my stuff :-\

ya, paranoid. Somebody made it, you know?

Guns that don't have locks break?

Manmade. Sure they break. That's what backups are for.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

Yes. I'd do with the lock while I looked for one but I enjoy collecting them, that may not make sense for you. I didn't mean you should never buy one with a lock. I would if it's all I could find, but I'd be looking to replace it when I found a pre-lock version. It's still a gun, just not the "one".ya, paranoid. Somebody made it, you know?Manmade. Sure they break. That's what backups are for.

Mostly I don't trust pawn and gun stores which tend to be cheaper because I do not have a relationship with them and the thought of them buying peoples stolen stuff which more than likely is at least a small percentage of their inventory..(I know the chances of people switching them is slim but I'm just being honest on my paranoia)

Edited November 20, 2008 by TheBadLuckCharm

[Oh Shoot]

....The more you sit there & price check online & listen to everyones thoughts on the matter the more confused you will get.

All good advice methinks...

The SW Airweights are fine weapons for their intended purpose.

Just decide on conventional hammer, shrouded, or none (shrouded/none best for SD IMHO) and get/order a new one, without the lock if you can.

If over time you decide its not for you, you can sell it. SW retains value well, used no lock guns will probably fetch more on resell. Worst case, you've rented a gun pretty inexpensively for a while.

- OS

[Guest trfkcop]

+1 on 642. I have carried mine for about 10 years now, and I LOVE it!!!!!

[Guest flyfishtn]

Yea I know,my husband loves it.

I am in rutherford co. Not familiar with area though, only been here a year.

I really liked one guy at Guncity USA in Nashville,he knew all his stuff but it's 30 away.

I commute from Nashville to the 'Boro everyday. Make the drive or head down and see Joe in Winchester, you won't be disappointed.

[Guest TheBadLuckCharm]

+1 on 642. I have carried mine for about 10 years now, and I LOVE it!!!!!

Do you enjoy shooting it, or is it mostly a carry not much action gun?

If you have a lock do you have any trouble with it?

They had a new one at a local shop and a used one last week, I went to the range yesterday and the new one was gone, used one still there but has a lock.

I shot a .32 kel tec last night.(wouldn't depend on it to save my life but it was fun)Interested in .380s but not sure which are good for carry or anything else about the .380s really.

[towerclimber37]

hey bad luck charm, I too am going to the gun show this weekend...and hoping I can convince my wife to come with me! She may come, just to keep an eye on me... that way she'll have money in the bank when I get back to the hotel.

I myself will be looking for a LLama model XA, and trading my bursa .380 for it.

I would be great to see some more folks from the board at the gunshow!