First Aid Kits

[Moped]

Blundered into Smoky Mountain Knife Works in Sevierville last week and ran across some first aid kits they had for sale. I liked the looks of them so picked up two for $15 a piece (1 for each vehicle). I've since found them online for less, so I thought I'd share.

http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/050K/product-id/36911291.html

The ones at Smoky Mountain Knife Works are OD Green with a red and white cross on them. I've seen them online for as little as $4.99 + shipping. I imagine that shipping puts them up there at the price I purchased them at.

[Westwindmike]

Here is a great local source for first aid and survival equipment. Located in Nashville.

http://www.lifeviewoutdoors.com/

They also have a really good DVD on survival called "Prepared To Survive".

Be sure to check them out. They are good folks with fast shipping.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I think that first aid kits are something all of us as gunowners should have available at all times, especially with our monthly shoots. Somebody on this board has to be an EMT, doctor, or been a combat medic and can give some suggestions. Personally, I have found most store bought FAK's lacking. I have some large FAK's in my job trailer, and I don't think they could stop anything larger than a cut from a razor.

In my opinion, FAK's should include Kerlix, Sam's splint, Israeli trauma bandage, Quickclot in granular form and in advanced sponge, gloves, CPR mask, a couple of ACE elastic bandages, shears, iodine and alcohol prep pads, 3M tape, as it seems to be the best even under wet, i.e. blood, conditions, chest seal bandages, one for entry GSW and one for exit GSW, and a OLAES bandage or three (these have a cup that hold direct pressure on the wound).

OLAES bandage

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/servlet/Detail?no=102

[EMTRN]

I think that first aid kits are something all of us as gunowners should have available at all times, especially with our monthly shoots. Somebody on this board has to be an EMT, doctor, or been a combat medic and can give some suggestions. Personally, I have found most store bought FAK's lacking. I have some large FAK's in my job trailer, and I don't think they could stop anything larger than a cut from a razor.

In my opinion, FAK's should include Kerlix, Sam's splint, Israeli trauma bandage, Quickclot in granular form and in advanced sponge, gloves, CPR mask, a couple of ACE elastic bandages, shears, iodine and alcohol prep pads, 3M tape, as it seems to be the best even under wet, i.e. blood, conditions, chest seal bandages, one for entry GSW and one for exit GSW, and a OLAES bandage or three (these have a cup that hold direct pressure on the wound).

OLAES bandage

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/servlet/Detail?no=102

You have the right idea. Most kits are full of fluff that will never get used.

[Guest SUNTZU]

You have the right idea. Most kits are full of fluff that will never get used.

Based on your screen name, I guess that you are an EMT and/or an RN?

[Guest Traumaslave]

In my opinion, FAK's should include Kerlix, Sam's splint, Israeli trauma bandage, Quickclot in granular form and in advanced sponge, gloves, CPR mask, a couple of ACE elastic bandages, shears, iodine and alcohol prep pads, 3M tape, as it seems to be the best even under wet, i.e. blood, conditions, chest seal bandages, one for entry GSW and one for exit GSW, and a OLAES bandage or three (these have a cup that hold direct pressure on the wound).

OLAES bandage

http://www.rescue-essentials.com/servlet/Detail?no=102

Some bandaids, 4x4s, Kerlix, ABD pads, and maybe some Ace wraps are enough to stabilize and get to definative care. Gloves, tape, and shears would be good too. The rest of that stuff is over kill and over priced.

GSWs aren't as glamourus as TV makes them out to be. Many times there isn't an exit wound and the damage that could be done on the inside is nothing that anyone here is going to treat.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Some bandaids, 4x4s, Kerlix, ABD pads, and maybe some Ace wraps are enough to stabilize and get to definative care. Gloves, tape, and shears would be good too. The rest of that stuff is over kill and over priced.

GSWs aren't as glamourus as TV makes them out to be. Many times there isn't an exit wound and the damage that could be done on the inside is nothing that anyone here is going to treat.

Are you in the medical field?

The reason I'm asking you and EMTRN that is to see if I could possibly get you guys to write up a "What you really need in your first aid kit" thread, that is, if you are in the medical field. I think that it should include stuff to treat a GSW, because we attend shoots every month, and this is in a survival thread. I don't mean brain surgery. I'm no doctor. I would like to be able to make it to someone who is capable of saving my fat butt.

[Guest Astra900]

All that stuff is useless if you don't know how to use it. I don't know near as much as i should. I have wanted to take some of Red Cross's classes and such, but I've been lazy. Hey:shrug: no need to lie about it.

If you can't use half that stuff properly, what good is it?

[Guest Traumaslave]

I have been a critical care nurse for 8 years now and have all the alphabet soup behind my name. 3 yrs in the ICU and the last 5 in the ER have taught me more than I thought I'd ever know and that I'll never know it all. The list I gave is as much as anyone will need. The rest is, as EMTRN said, just fluff. Trauma bandages and Quickclot may have their place in combat but direct pressure is still the best blood stopper. Sutures and chest tubes can really come in handy but, who is gunna put those in? The only thing I carry over and beyond basic bandaging stuff is a big IV needle for decompression. This again isn't something that the lay person is going to perform nor generally recognize the need for.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I don't think I said anything about chest tubes and sutures. I know I don't know how to use that stuff. I have taken CPR for work, as well as bloodborne pathogens, but that is the very limited extent of my training. Being that this is the survival forum, I was thinking more along the lines of what you would need to stabilize someone long enough to get them to medical help. Applying direct pressure while someone is being carried on a poncho would be difficult, IMO. I don't think that you need to get a backpack full of combat medic stuff, especially without training, that would be stupid and expensive. I have been considering more training.

I don't think that a "leave it to the professionals" is a good response in this instance, because we aren't talking about "normal" situations. You need to be able to get to the professionals in the event of a local disaster, or while backpacking. A good example of this is when my girlfriend and I go backpacking. If she gets hurt, I can't apply direct pressure to the wound and go get help.

A basic kit, IMO, can't just have what you buy in most stores, as it just covers minimum requirements/standards. I'm not talking about carrying an MRI around with you, but something more than the ten dollar kit at Walmart or Bass Pro.

Two cents.

[Punisher84]

I've kinda built mine out of Basic training first aid, stuff I've picked up around the hospital, and just asking military buddies.

I seperate First aid kits into 2 groups:

Snivel kit- (The Target special) Band-aids, neosporin, tylenol, benadryl, alcohol pads, small gauze, etc

Trauma Kit- Large gauze, israeli bandage, wound cleanser, ace bandages, small splints, etc.

A snivel kit should be no bigger than a small pouch. I'd say slightly larger than a paperback book. A trauma kit will probably be a bit larger, but you should still be able to carry it easily, probably inside a backpack.

Remember, only carry what you KNOW how to use. You could potentially do more damage trying to do something you saw on TV. Quikclot is good stuff, but it should be used as a last resort in granular form because it is a real mess to get out of a wound. Tampons work great to plug up a GSW. Alot of marines actually use that trick. My best friend is a Navy Corpsman. I'll see if he can write me up a good field guide, he did a year in Afghanistan under some pretty heavy crap, so i'll take his word on what works

[creeky]

I don't think that a "leave it to the professionals" is a good response in this instance, because we aren't talking about "normal" situations. You need to be able to get to the professionals in the event of a local disaster, or while backpacking. A good example of this is when my girlfriend and I go backpacking. If she gets hurt, I can't apply direct pressure to the wound and go get help.

I backpack a little in the smokies.

The Red Cross offers a "Wilderness First Aid" class in my area. I backpack and wanted to take this course last year but it wouldn't fit my schedule. Hope to this year though, in March. ($100 bucks, two days)

Here is a run down...

Learning objectives:

● Identify how to respond to delayed-help emergency situations.

● Identify 3 types of delayed-help environments.

● Identify causes of injuries and ways injuries can be prevented in wilderness areas.

● Learn proper advance preparation for journeys into the back country.

● Learn the first aid Emergency Action Steps to use when EMS is not readily available.

● Learn basic and more advanced first aid techniques to use when injury occurs.

● Describe techniques for protecting the victim from weather.

● Discuss difficult decisions to be made in a delayed-help emergency situation.

● Learn how to respond to an emotionally upset victim.

● Learn short distance transfer and evacuation techniques.

● Experience providing wilderness first aid rescues that test knowledge and skills.

*I have no formal medical training!

I have had basic CPR stuff, a wound management class, (helped take care of my Dad for months who had an open abdomen wound that would not close - He was on hospice and had a fistula that resulted in waste matter spilling into his abdomen), also my son has TYPE I diabetes.

When backpacking, (usually three of us) I have a generic kit I ought when I first started backpacking, but only use the bag now. Everything has been replaced in it. I'd have to look, but basically I carry stuff for...

• Minor pain relief meds, and anti-inflammatory stuff

• Allergy management (bee stings and stuff)

• Stuff for sprains

• Stomach meds (case you get the screaming craps)

• Minor wound management stuff (gauze, pads, tampons, sanitary pads, etc)

• Pencil, gloves, etc.

• Also carry a small bottle of Ambusol, for toothaches and as a topical

I try to only carry what I know how to use. For a disaster type situation I'm not really sure what I would though for any serious medical problem.

I do however keep 3 months ahead on insulin and test strips for my son!

*Edit*

You know, maybe a picture thread started in the survival skills thread would be pretty good for people to show what they are currently using. You post a picture of what you have, then describe the contents. That way others could get ideas of ways to improve their kits. Just a thought.

Edited November 19, 2008 by creeky
Had an idea about a picture thread...

[Guest gunslinger707]

All these idea's are good i would like to add before using any of it.take a Red Cross FIRST AID / CPR course and plan your first aid kit around that.

my $0.02 for what it's worth

[Moped]

Back in 1995, the company I worked for tabbed me and two others to take a First Responder Course. First Responder is what the average Fireman in Knoxville is trained to. It was a 9 week course that was taught by Rural Metro's EMT/Paramedic Manager. Absolutely the best medical training I ever had as a civilian! Loved it! I'd like to take it again.

I've also had the Adult CPR, Child CPR and General First Aid courses from the Red Cross several times over the years as well. I'd encourage those who are serieous about learning first aid to look into a good First Responder Course.

[EMTRN]

Based on your screen name, I guess that you are an EMT and/or an RN?

Yep I am an EMT and a Trauma RN 3 days a week. I play Police on the others. Like traumaslave said, direct pressure is the best blood stopper. After that you can look at elevation and pressure points. Medicine in the field is mostly going to be based on keeping the person alive until they can get definitive care. CPR and first responder would be a good start. Then you can move on to the "alphabet soup" that trauma slave talked about:EMT,RN, PALS,ACLS, TNCC, CEN, CCRN, NRP, etc. The bad part then is keeping up with all the dang renewals! Some good ideas have been mentioned, like tampons. You need bandages, dressings, splinting supplies, a few OTC meds like motrin, benadryl, and that should about cover it.

[ZenDog]

Ran across this in the November Rangemaster newsletter- written by a fellow who survived hurricane Ike in Houston - this is his first aid advice after surviving that experience. (he has a lot of other advice- I just pasted this medical part because it was pertinent to this post)

Trauma Kits: Learn how to treat traumatic injuries and have the appropriate equipment on hand. I had to suture my wife's foot with four stitches. I had no pain killer, but I still had to do it. We had no access to hospitals, or ambulances, or medical care of any kind. We had to treat our own injuries. Have plenty of battle dressings, alcohol, medical scissors, wide-spectrum, oral antibiotics, decongestants, and band-aids. You're going to need it all!

from http://rangemaster.com/newsletter/2008-11_RM-Newsletter.pdf

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

I've yet to purchase them, but the first two books on this list come highly recommended by lots of people:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=where+there+is+no+doctor&x=0&y=0

[EMTRN]

wide-spectrum, oral antibiotics,

from http://rangemaster.com/newsletter/2008-11_RM-Newsletter.pdf

Bad idea

[Guest RISC777]

Originally Posted by ZenDog

wide-spectrum, oral antibiotics, from http://rangemaster.com/newsletter/20...Newsletter.pdf

Bad idea

To stir it up a little, or not... What if A. you've had no medical training; B. both teenage sons have busted things over and over and ripped themselves open over and over between hockey, snow boarding, skate boarding, aggressive inline skates, bikes, etc., compound open fractures, et al; C. you've removed sutures numerous times (won't name the facility, but was given before leaving a small "amount" of 3.0 suture supplies) [it's pretty bad while waiting on the ER table you can pick out the gauge and color of what's going to be used]; D. you've put a few "field emergency sutures" into your own personal skin (in the Rockies due to at the time perceived need and necessity), dealt with cold and shock, splints from what's at hand; E. so, based on history and limited experience, and knowing that good medical care is days away ... is it bad to do more than apply pressure? Talking towards the extreme, what if, worse situation if it were to ever arise.

[EMTRN]

It is a bad idea to take random antibiotics when you don't know what you are doing. Just like a 3/4 in socket and a 1/2 socket will not interchange, taking doxy when you need pcn will not help you at all. Be careful suturing yourself Rambo, you might just close the bugs in and make it worse.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

It is a bad idea to take random antibiotics when you don't know what you are doing. Just like a 3/4 in socket and a 1/2 socket will not interchange, taking doxy when you need pcn will not help you at all. Be careful suturing yourself Rambo, you might just close the bugs in and make it worse.

I agree that the dangers are tremendous. If, however, you found yourself without any access to pharmaceuticals or professional medical help, what would you do? There could be some value in having clarithromycin, amoxicillin, and some type of sulfonamide on hand. Even vancomycin or something uncommon like tinidazole. A toddler could easily be dead from giardia in just a few days.

I don't think anyone here would suggest that self-medication is preferable to professional help when it's available. I know I'd certainly never suggest that. And issues like drug resistance and allergic reactions aren't lost on me. In a worst case scenario, though, I'd like to know I at least had a shot against a staph infection or pneumonia.

[Punisher84]

from http://rangemaster.com/newsletter/2008-11_RM-Newsletter.pdf

I'm glad that guy got out and knew what to do, but that's reckless to post that in a newsletter from a self-proclaimed "expert".

If you know what you are doing that's great, but don't assume putting sutures in, or administering "battle-field medicine" is simple. You want to keep the person alive, doing a bunch of things you assume to be correct without knowing how could cost them their life. A first aid kit should be built around what YOU know how to use, nothing else. You wouldn't load up a rifle you didn't know how to operate or clean would you? What makes you think watching House and E.R is going to give you the mental clarity to save a life when you don't know the difference between a a bandage and gauze?

What's the old saying about a road to Hell and good intentions?

[Punisher84]

I agree that the dangers are tremendous. If, however, you found yourself without any access to pharmaceuticals or professional medical help, what would you do? There could be some value in having clarithromycin, amoxicillin, and some type of sulfonamide on hand. Even vancomycin or something uncommon like tinidazole. A toddler could easily be dead from giardia in just a few days.

I don't think anyone here would suggest that self-medication is preferable to professional help when it's available. I know I'd certainly never suggest that. And issues like drug resistance and allergic reactions aren't lost on me. In a worst case scenario, though, I'd like to know I at least had a shot against a staph infection or pneumonia.

See, that would be my problem. If you give me any type of cillin or myocin I'm dead. Fast. Having antiobiotics is good, but risky.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

See, that would be my problem. If you give me any type of cillin or myocin I'm dead. Fast. Having antiobiotics is good, but risky.

Yeap. I agree completely. Meds are risky, especially in the hands of a non-professional.

[towerclimber37]

I agree ERMT!

very rarely do we need stuff for serious trauma..but when you need it and you don't have it...it's serious trouble. I carry 2 packs. One is a trauma pack with supplies for serious injuries. the other is the "fluff" pack for non-critical injuries. Since my wife is a Nurse and I have had some small training in combat lifesaving..I'm pretty sure that between us we can stabilize a family member long enough for the EMT's to get there for transport.

Notice I said "family member". no I will not administer any sort of antibiotics or anything else...my view is strictly to stabilize and give them a half assed chance to make it to the hospital. I have a limited knowledge of how to do that..and like Punisher said..I will do what I've been taught. not what I "saw on TV"...and I definitely will be happy when the guys who have more skill get there!

Edited November 24, 2008 by towerclimber37