K98 Edumacation needed

[Pete123]

Guys,

 

I would appreciate some input.

 

I've always been interested in the Eastern front from WWII.  I have a great Mosin.

 

The K98 Mauser is the other gun I want.  Sadly, getting a K98 isn't as straight forward as a Mosin.

 

So, here is what I want:

 

My budget doesn't allow for a collector grade gun - prefer sub $400, definitely sub $500.

A German model with matching numbers that is beat up, but still shoots reasonably accurately would be my first choice.

I don't want a Mitchell's Mauser.

A turn in from a GI that brought one home would be great.

A Russian capture that hasn't been screwed up would be great

A gun that isn't german, but is very close to the K98 would be ok

 

I think you'll get the idea by now.  It would be great to have a gun with historical relevance, though the budget may not allow that.

 

Empire Arms has one with the following description:

 

'GERMAN Model 98k Mauser bolt-action rifle # 1180m (8x57) mfg. by Mauser (code S/42G) in 1935. A Russian capture with no matching numbers in Very Good condition with 80% or better reblued metal but surfaces exhibit pinprick light pitting. Bore is rough but strong and shootable. All-milled parts, missing cleaning rod (we sell nice reproduction rods for $12.00)  and has leather (Yugo) sling with buckle. Buttstock is solid walnut with sanded area on left side but has clear eagle cartouche on right side.  PHOTO . . . $450. '

 

Not knowing the market, that seems a little pricey.  I definitely want a gun that is reasonably accurate with iron sights. what the heck does "Bore is rough but strong and shootable" mean?

 

I found at least one reference to Empire Arms, saying that the guy is expensive, but what he advertises is what you get.

 

Any input of what comes closest to matching my wants considering my budget would be awesome.

[gregintenn]

A CZ VZ-24 is a quite economical alternative to a K98. They are of good quality if you aren't set on German manufacture. I've got a fairly good one I picked up for $100 a few years back.

 

A little patience should turn one up for you for around $200-$250 I'm guessing.

 

These were manufactured at Brno, which has always been known for quality arms.

Edited August 27, 2015 by gregintenn

[Garufa]

Mauser prices are going up.  $450 for a russian capture sounds about right but you might be able to find a nicer one for that price if you keep looking.

 

Rough bore means it's pitted but as long as the rifling is strong it's more of an annoyance than something that effects performance.

[gregintenn]

If you just want the best 98, the 1909 Argentine is the Cadillac in my opinion.

 

The Carl Gustav 6.5 Swedish Mausers are probably the best shooters. They are regularly found in pristine condition. I suppose the Swedish didn't do a lot of fighting. At any rate, the sure took care of their weapons.

Edited August 27, 2015 by gregintenn

[EssOne]

I was in the Gun Rack in Kingsport two days ago and they had an excellent to mint Yugo M24/47 with matching bolt for $350 (under $400 anyway) on their used rifle rack. The Yugo Mausers are first rate Mausers, but have the "intermediate" length action, which means it is about 1/8" shorter than the K 98 action. This is only important if you intend to rechamber for a round longer than the 8x57mm. The M24/47 has the milled steel butt plate instead of the stamped out sheet metal "cup" butt plates of the later war German Mausers (Kar 98), it has the milled trigger guard/magazine assembly and the straight bolt handle, plus it has a rear sling swivel instead of the milled sling cut in the stock. I've had a couple of them and loved them. NOW, I didn't look at the bolt face or the bore, so if you're interested in the gun I'll be glad to go over and give it a close inspection for you. Here is what one looks like:

 

 

P.S. - this is one of the few European service rifles that does NOT have those blasted finger grooves in the stock.

Edited August 27, 2015 by EssOne

[NRA]

a yugo is great option, In that price range you will never find a matched k98.

Edited August 27, 2015 by NRA

[peejman]

What they said. K98's have always commanded the highest prices. I'd be suprised if you can find decent numbers matching one for under $500.

The 24/47's are the bargain models. They're functionally the same and generally good shooters. I have a bolt not matching M48 that's in OK condition. It's a good shooter (and is a freakin' cannon). Cheap milsurp 8mm ammo is getting hard to find. Aftermarket stuff is $0.50 a shot, but I doubt you'll burn through it real fast.

[Sunfish]

Finding  a #'s matching K98K for a thousand dollars is nearly impossible. Miss-match non import parts guns are out there. I have a BNZ ghost that has been re-barreled  by the Yugo's that I would take $450 for. PM me if interested. If you are really interested in this kind of thing you should go ahead and get a C&R FFL its only $30 for three years. It allows you to ship and receive directly. Sunfish 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Sunfish

[ironsniper1]

As EssOne said those mausers are a good bargain I saw some at gander mountain here in mount Juliet still in cosmo


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[Pete123]

I appreciate all the input guys.  The stores Luke mentioned are close to me so I'll check them out.  

 

More comments are definitely appreciated.

[Metalhead]

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Edited August 28, 2015 by Metalhead

[Jonnin]

If you just want the best 98, the 1909 Argentine is the Cadillac in my opinion.

 

The Carl Gustav 6.5 Swedish Mausers are probably the best shooters. They are regularly found in pristine condition. I suppose the Swedish didn't do a lot of fighting. At any rate, the sure took care of their weapons.

 

This.  My 1909 is absolutely the best made bolt gun I own.  Unfortunately most that are inexpensive are ruined.  It would take a very large infusion of cash from a  good buddy to talk me out of mine.  Its an amazing piece.   Its all matched, was in its original and estimated unfired condition until it turned 100, I decided to shoot it for its birth-year... even has a matched numbered bayo and muzzle cap etc.   I shoot it a couple of times a year now, and its always a treat.   

 

You have to make a decision.   If you can't afford an all matched collector, find a good shooter.  Mismatched guns are not trash... it means they were taken down and rebuilt by someone with intent to USE them ... they tossed the bad parts and consolidated them into working, quality weapons.  Many of them were used after being rebuilt .. they have a history.

 

The best thing you can do is educate yourself (which you are doing, but I mean in depth here) so you can go to a gun show or auction/estate/etc and pick off something that has been overlooked.  Learn what to look for in a shooter (barrel in good condition) and what you can do to a shooter (recrown and counter-bore, barrel replace, etc).  Learn what to look for in a fake (less of an issue with cheaper offerings).   Learn about what makes one worth owning, and what its value should be.    Try gunboards.com ... the people there know a ton about these guns.  Once you know what to look for, you can spot some good deals at shows and such... but you generally don't have time to make the decision before another person does the same, so you gotta know the answer on a gun cold when you go looking...  tons of people will be doing the same thing, scouting for the gem in the pile.

 

Also consider the ammo angle.   I make my own -- there just isn't much for the 1909 that isn't expensive -- the 8mm is a little more friendly but even so you could pay a little more on the gun if you made your own ammo cheaply. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Jonnin

[Garufa]

Pete,  if you truly are interested in WWII history seek out a German K98.  Mausers, of all varieties, were used by more countries in more configurations than any other bolt-action rifle in history. However, only an original German in 8mm will satisfy what i think you want.

 

Be wary of Russian captures...they often have the Waffenamts (Nazi Eagle mark) peened to obscure the swastika but the history is still there.  Maybe even more history depending on how you look at it.

[Pete123]

Garufa,  I'm thinking you may have the best idea.  I have plenty of guns to shoot and I can afford a German K98 within the next year.

 

Would you expect that I can get one in the $1100 - $1250 range?

 

Again, thanks to all the posters - this input has been great.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Pete123

[peejman]

Garufa, I'm thinking you may have the best idea. I have plenty of guns to shoot and I can afford a German K98 within the next year.

Would you expect that I can get one in the $1100 - $1250 range?

Again, thanks to all the posters - this input has been great.

You should be able to get a nice K98 sniper for that. And that would be awesome. :)

[gregintenn]

Garufa,  I'm thinking you may have the best idea.  I have plenty of guns to shoot and I can afford a German K98 within the next year.

 

Would you expect that I can get one in the $1100 - $1250 range?

 

Again, thanks to all the posters - this input has been great.

If that's what you want, don't shortchange yourself. They ain't making any more of them, and values aren't likely to decrease.

[i1afli]

Check pawn shops.

[ironsniper1]

You should be able to get a nice K98 sniper for that. And that would be awesome. :)

now I want one!


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[Pete123]

As I'm thinking this through, I want to learn more about mausers.  

 

Getting a Mosin is pretty straight forward.  I got one for $150, it was made in 1939, so it almost certainly saw action on the Eastern Front.  It was returned to the factory a re-worked, though it captures the piece of history I was after.

 

Moving over to the German side causes things to become more complicated.  They are more expensive, there are a bunch of variants, there is a lot more info needed to make a wise purchase, etc...  

[ironsniper1]

http://www.jgsales.com/-p-83771.html

[Jonnin]

As I'm thinking this through, I want to learn more about mausers.  

 

Getting a Mosin is pretty straight forward.  I got one for $150, it was made in 1939, so it almost certainly saw action on the Eastern Front.  It was returned to the factory a re-worked, though it captures the piece of history I was after.

 

Moving over to the German side causes things to become more complicated.  They are more expensive, there are a bunch of variants, there is a lot more info needed to make a wise purchase, etc...  

 

a book might set your gun fund back $50 but in the long run, you might be better off.   The web has the info but if you are *serious* you will want it in a better format than hunt & peck.  Start on the wiki page and gunboards.  Then get a book recommendation there (I am no expert, I studied the one I own and only a touch of the others).  Then read it.  Time you do that, youll have the money saved up to go buy it.

 

There are a number of experts here too, of course.   The reason to hit the other site isn't the people (far from it, actually) but the historic threads upon threads on this topic ... you could read them for a month solid and still have stuff left. 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jonnin

[smokndav]

I have a very nice German k98 without import marks, non matching for $650.00. PM me if interested. Some ammo

[Hershmeister]

Check out Gunboards.com. Tons of info there. As others have stated, for a german k98 a russian capture is the entry point with prices around 450. Mismatched non captures run more and once you get into matching your close to 1000 or so it seems. Lots of fakery going on with these so buyer beware

[ironsniper1]

Figured I would ask here I am thinking of buying a yugo mauser from jg sales and was wonder if anyone here has a yugo and what type of ammo do you shoot with it? Surplus or non surplus?


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[peejman]

Figured I would ask here I am thinking of buying a yugo mauser from jg sales and was wonder if anyone here has a yugo and what type of ammo do you shoot with it? Surplus or non surplus?


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I shoot the corrosive milsurp stuff in mine, just because it was cheap and I have it. When/if I run out of that, I presume I'll switch to the PPU, Wolf, etc. type of stuff.  I've also got 1 box of really old Hornady (?) hunting ammo for it.