Ranger Tabs don't count?

[Cherokee Slim]

Don't want to stir anything up here, you can always call in the Marines - but what is the deal with these two women getting Ranger tabs but not being assigned to the 75th Regiment?  Are they Rangers or not?  If they are Rangers why would they not be assigned to the Ranger Regiment?  I was all for women in the military until the Navy started recruiting my granddaughter to fly helicopters. I'd hate to see her humping a ruck, but there seem to be women who are up to the physical challenge. The Army swears the requirements were not changed.  So other than political interference & correctness, what's going on here?

Cherokee  Slim

 

[Omega]

Don't want to stir anything up here, you can always call in the Marines - but what is the deal with these two women getting Ranger tabs but not being assigned to the 75th Regiment?  Are they Rangers or not?  If they are Rangers why would they not be assigned to the Ranger Regiment?  I was all for women in the military until the Navy started recruiting my granddaughter to fly helicopters. I'd hate to see her humping a ruck, but there seem to be women who are up to the physical challenge. The Army swears the requirements were not changed.  So other than political interference & correctness, what's going on here?

Cherokee  Slim

Ranger tabs are not only for the Ranger Battalions, many people go to ranger school and don't serve in the battalions.  I have mostly seen officers, but know a few enlisted as well. 

[gjohnsoniv]

I'm speaking way out of my knowledge and experience here but I think there is a difference between a tabbed and scrolled Ranger. Those on here who are correct me if I'm wrong, I'm interested in how that works.

[Cherokee Slim]

I'm speaking way out of my knowledge and experience here but I think there is a difference between a tabbed and scrolled Ranger. Those on here who are correct me if I'm wrong, I'm interested in how that works.

I don't understand.

[CommsNBombs]

Ranger School is branded as a Infantry leadership school, all NCOs in the 75th Ranger Regiment regardless of MOS or duty position must go to it to keep their slot. I believe it is E6 and above, but that may have changed.

 

The whole deal with it was that it was a social experiment. Ranger School was the last non-SOF cool-guy school that only allowed males in it. Now with the addition of females it left a lot of people jaded about the heritage. Also - it didn't have that they all pretty much failed Pre-Ranger, and were allowed to continue. Most of them failed RAP week, and some were recycled. Then they failed Darby and were recylced. Then failed Mountain and even then the 2 were recycled.

 

It seems like a PC/publicity stunt. Absolute garbage - I am suprised they weren't peer'ed out - probably someone from the top dictated that.

 

I mean cool - congrats, you passed, but multiple recycles, not suscepitble to peer-outs and the fact that the media was all up the RTB's ass the whole entire time takes away from what the "School of All Schools" is supposed to be.

 

Now, there will be a bigger annoyance if they allowed women to go to RASP1/2. The Regiment is NO place for a female - there are somethings I want to un-see that I saw some new Ranger joes doing to girls in the 6th RTB barracks outside of Eglin AFB.

 

And another point is everyone in this class, and the classes after are going to come back with their shiny Tabs and are going to be laughed at and mocked as being part of the easy classes.

[gjohnsoniv]

Edit. NVM. Edited August 19, 2015 by gjohnsoniv

[CommsNBombs]

Also for Rangers:

 

75th Ranger Regiment is a light/airborne Special Operations Forces (different than Special Forces) that was made to be highly agile and lethal, can deploy anywhere within 72 hours and is good at taking hard targets. To join the Regiment you can come in with an Option 40 11X contract meaning: Basic/OSUT (infantry), jump school, Ranger Assesment and Selection Program (8 week program, used to be a 3 week program called Ranger Indoctrination Program [RIP]) where you are taught small unit tactics, emergency first aid (sort of like Advanced-CLS), airborne/pathfinder operations and mostly getting the dog-crap smoked out of you.

 

Other than that they will take dudes from the Regular Army too - the process is a little different as you have to be interviewed, write a Letter of Intent and be released by your Sergeant Major - just a bigger pain in the butt.

 

As I mentioned in the above post, Ranger School is a leadership school meant to hone those skills - but now they sent pretty much anyone who wants to go. It is more of a bragging right but you are damn sure that virtually every NCO especially 11B/Cs (Infantrymen) in Regiment have a Tab.

 

They are both called "Ranger School" but it is different than RASP - albeit the cirriculum is very similar.

 

And the whole differentiation between Tab and Scroll: The unit patch of the 75th RR looks like a scroll, when you go to Ranger School you are awarded a skill identifier tab that says RANGER on it. Much like the President's 100 Tab, Special Forces Tab and Sapper Tab...and then some units have unit-designation tab (AIRBORNE and MOUNTAIN) and then you have the unauthorized tabs like Recon, Sniper, Artic, Jungle

Edited August 19, 2015 by CommsNBombs

[Omega]

I'm speaking way out of my knowledge and experience here but I think there is a difference between a tabbed and scrolled Ranger. Those on here who are correct me if I'm wrong, I'm interested in how that works.

 

 

I don't understand.

Yes, there is a difference.  Tabbed just means you have gone through the course, but scrolled means you have served in the Ranger Regiment.  While stationed out in Savannah (Hunter Army Airfield) GA, we supported the 1st Ranger Bn.  A tabbed E-4 would run roughshod on non-tabbed ones and tabbed non-scrolled were looked down upon by those in the regiment even if they themselves were not tabbed.  Personally, I would take a scrolled squad  of rangers vs a squad of tabbed non regiment guys any day.

[CommsNBombs]

I'd take an ODA, a really good Sattelite operator, cook, generator and wheel-vehicle mechanic, a FO and a JTAC over a whole BN of scrolled jagoffs :P :P :P

[Omega]

I'd take an ODA, a really good Sattelite operator, cook, generator and wheel-vehicle mechanic, a FO and a JTAC over a whole BN of scrolled jagoffs :P :P :P

Nah, been there. 

[CommsNBombs]

Nah, been there.

Guess it really depends on the mission set.

Need a FB set up really quick and augment local nationals? ODA

Slap some and steal their airfield? Regt

[Omega]

Guess it really depends on the mission set.

Need a FB set up really quick and augment local nationals? ODA

Slap some and steal their airfield? Regt

Rodger, I was involved with both and much rather hit it and quit it than stay around having to watch my back day and night.

[btq96r]

There is constant debate on what a "Ranger" actually entails.  Even the U.S. Army Ranger Associations definition which includes those who only earn a tab is disputed by those who think the association is just a good ole' boys club for retired officers and should be limited to those who served in Ranger units.

 

As has been said here, Ranger school is just a school. Way back when, the Army realized that garrison training just wasn't good enough at producing small unit leaders for combat, so the school was created as a way of doing that in between wars.  It's meant to push people way past their comfort zone, and show them what they can do under multiple forms of stress and external factors.  It also shows you how leadership works when everybody is miserable, tired, hungry, sore, and isn't inclined to do something just because the platoon leader says to do it. 

 

Ranger school isn't officially required for infantry officers, but if you're an infantry officer and you show up to a light infantry unit (10th Mountain, 82nd & 101st Airborne) without a tab, good luck getting a platoon leader slot.  As a contractor, I worked with a former infantry officer who was dropped on request from Ranger School because the cadre basically told him he would never graduate with them there since he didn't want to play the mind games.  He was on battalion staff until a tasking came up to augment the Artillery battalion with an ad hoc infantry platoon for a deployment to Iraq.  That was when he finally got a PL slot. 

 

I've always thought that Ranger School meant more to the officers than the enlisted.  Interestingly enough, with Iraq and Afghanistan in full swing, officers still had Ranger School in their training pipeline before getting to a unit, but for NCO's in line units who only go later in their careers, it wasn't really feasible with deployments so close together.  The time to train up, go to the school, and then recover after would have deprived units of combat experienced team and squad leaders, so the emphasis to send NCO's was all but gone when time home from a deployment was only 12-15 months.  There will be a lot of NCO's at the Platoon Sergeant and First Sergeant level without Ranger Tabs, but 4-5 combat deployments for a bit.  Back when I first reported to Fort Campbell in March 2001, it was rare to see an Infantry Company First Sergeant without a tab.  Different, but not necessarily bad.

 

The 75th Ranger Regiment is a entirely different story.  These are the guys who have been deployed on and off for near 14 years, and were hitting multiple targets every night in Iraq and Afghanistan (still are there probably).   The Regiment was taking women on missions to deal with Afghan females due to cultural issues, but that's about as far as it ever should go.  Their place in the military is to be a wrecking ball when called upon, and the mission set, training and operations tempo, as well as the lifestyle reflect that.  A Ranger Battalion is no place for a woman unless we're talking Ronda Rousey levels of fitness, and even in the hypothetical fantasy world where a woman could meet the physical standards without any gender curving, then we'll have the same problems with fraternization that come with male/female units.  For guys from Regiment, Ranger School is a block to check so they can take a leadership position.  Ranger units can send troops as low as Private First Class, and Ranger students coming from Ranger units have a much higher graduation rate than others.

 

As to these women, they got in from a special selection process to find the best candidates for a trial program, and only two of them made it this far out of I think 25 or 26.  I'm not sure if they made it through a pre-Ranger course like they used to run at Fort Campbell or any other base before they went, but regardless, this was a very specific sample set.  Good on them for sticking it out, it speaks well to their character, but the breaking of the gender wall this isn't.

[raildog]

From what i was told by the two guys on Cadre that I know the two females that completed Ranger school did fail Darby once & mountain once. The Cadre is aloud to offer candidates that they think got shafted the chance to day one recycle which means they both started day one three times. They did complete all 62 days in a row of the school. They both had over 80% peer scores. So they are tuff as nails they were not cut any slack the reason they will get a tab and not a scroll is they can not go to Regament it is a Infantry Regament Females are not aloud in the Infantry yet. Edited August 20, 2015 by raildog

[Danger Rane]

Some great information already put out by others, but I will elaborate on what the Tab means for those in the Regiment (I.e. scrolled). If you are in a combat MOS you (11B/11C) you will not make it past E4 without it. If you are support personnel you will have a hard time making it past E6, not impossible but not real common. Interestingly enough, only support personnel assigned to the Ranger Regt are waiverable to attend the school, and you will see many cooks, mechanics, riggers, and supply personnel with a Tab. If you are a young private you are smoked and Tab checked consistently enough everyday that you look forward to going to the stupid school and getting it done so you can move up from being the new guy. It has nothing to do with getting into the Ranger Regt, but it is a right of passage for the youngsters to knock out before they progress up to a leadership position. I personally think the Regt guys have a bit easier time in school than the rest because they often do training cycles and deployments that are substantially harder than Ranger School and even the youngest private will know the ins and outs of Infantry tactics like the back of his hand. That being said, the Regt is sending E3's who are going through the school with and on par with O2-O3's. The scool IS a suckfest and is designed to push even the biggest badass past their physical reserves by combining 62 days of constant physical exertion, and food/sleep deprivation. On top of that you are graded on how well you lead others while they are suffering the effects of said circumstances. You can fail patrols, meaning you either sucked at the leadership role or could not pull your guys together to accomplish the mission (which means you sucked at the leadership role) you can also fail by getting negative peer reviews from your classmates (a practice that I think would be great in the real world too). If you fail patrols or get peered you do not advance to the next phase, you insert with the next class when they start the phase you failed. If you fail that phase a 2nd time than you can be sent back to the beginning of the school (a day 1 restart) if you have an honor violation (cheating) during any phase of the school it is the cadres discretion to kick you out of the course completely or start you back at day one. It is possible to fail and recycle each of the phases and get through to graduate, but man that would really suck. Before these girls I have never personally heard of anyone getting day 1 recycled more than once and being allowed to continue the course. It's possible that it happens on occasion but everything about this group has been interesting, including the fact that they have had a General Officer as one of the walkers on their recycles. While I personally think the whole social experiment has been a joke, I won't take anything away from the two ladies who stuck it out to the end after numerous recycles. They have achieved what 99.9% would never even attempt. While I don't necessarily agree that this in anyway lessons the significance of the Tab for those that already wear it, I do feel bad for the young men to follow, as their's will never be considered the same after this.

[Cherokee Slim]

No wonder I got conflicting responses from people I have asked over the years.  I have a better understanding now, and I appreciate ya'll being informative and keeping it civil.  Simple questions seem to all of a sudden head for hell in a hand basket now.  And ya know, sometimes you have to repeat in to  us Marines. :usa:

Cherokee Slim

[LagerHead]

Ranger School is branded as a Infantry leadership school, all NCOs in the 75th Ranger Regiment regardless of MOS or duty position must go to it to keep their slot. I believe it is E6 and above, but that may have changed.

 

 

 

If you are assigned to a Ranger Bn, you go to Ranger School as an E4, then come back and go to PLDC and get your SGT stripes pinned on, generally speaking. If you fail out of Ranger School, you go to a regular infantry unit.

[Omega]

Okay i wasnt sure about the combat side in Regt. Im a commo dude and they told me as long as I did it before I hit my 6 it would be good.

Either way the school is a ####show, hell RASP is a #### show too...theyre ALL #### shows

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They were right, you get sent when there is a slot available for you.  Some get assigned when they are already an E-5 or E-6 so they get prioritized for slots.  But if you are there for awhile and have not gone then you will probably find yourself on orders.  We were allowed RIP since we were in a support unit not actually part of the Bn but actual school slots were difficult to get. As a parachute rigger I had to be with them during jumps and deployed with them in support of that roll, on occasion I would get to do some training with them as well.  Depending on your MOS, why not put in a packet with us out here in the 160th? You will only have to go through Green Platoon, its a lot of fun...afterward.

[WarPig]

The new "Ranger panties" (it had to be done)

We were messing with my buddy last night who is a vet and has a tab. He was all worked up about it and I told him it's not Ranger Bat, it's a leadership school. With the fact that there is no more front line in warfare, why wouldn't you want ANY leader that could see combat to have these skills?

These 2 girls were 1) an Apache pilot and 2) a MP (she was in the BN I just left when I got out, I met her once. From what my peers tell me she's a bad@$$ chica.) Both have the strong chance of needing those skills.

Everyone makes Ranger school out to be like Delta force boot camp. Every one I knew that ever came back said they learned how to stay awake for ungodly amounts of time, walk for weeks on end, learned squad level dismounted tactics, use a map, and how to be ok with misery. Basically it gave everyone the confidence to face adversity. The school is a great asset to the Army, but its not churning out commandos. It strengthens leaders.

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