Scuttlebutt regarding W231 and HP 38 being phased out?

[Jamie Jackson]

Anyone else reading this?

 

I first ran across it on Brian Enos forums. Then searched it and found it on several different forums.

 

But...alas..it is the interwebs...so a grain of salt is always advisable...

 

I did e-mail Hodgdon customer service about it and await their reply...

 

 

 

What I read:

 

"Winchester 231 certainly has been hard to get. The plant that makes Winchester powders does not want to make 231 as well as a few other powders. These older technology powders have different chemistry than the new powders and this older chemistry makes it much slower to make powder: basically, you can make about 2.5 times as many pounds of new chemistry powder in the time it takes to make 1 pound of old chemistry powder. During the process of making the old powders, the waste stream created is huge compared to the waste stream of the new chemistry powders. Chemical waste is very expensive to get rid of. So, the plant wants to phase out the old chemistry powders and replace them with new chemistry powders. While they are still making 231, the amount is being reduced and the amount of new powder such as Titegroup and Longshot is being increased.
Now, we are kind of stuck in the middle. The market is demanding 231 but the maker is not wanting to produce the powder. The result is, over time, 231 is going to go away. Shooters should begin using other powders as they can."

 

 

W231/HP 38 is not my all time favorite powder...but it has been my go-to powder for 45 acp for a long, long time. These days I primarily shoot 9mm.

 

So, I'm just checking to see if anyone else is hearing/reading this.

[TNMTBik3r]

I read the same thing on a forum about a week ago. It is a logical progression to phase out something that is not as efficient to manufacture.

[Trekbike]

W231 has been the powder I've used on 38 special loads. I guess I'll need to switch to something else.

Any favorite recommendations for lead WC's and SWC's?

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[Jamie Jackson]

W231 has been the powder I've used on 38 special loads. I guess I'll need to switch to something else.

Any favorite recommendations for lead WC's and SWC's?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

Opening the discussion for alternatives was actually one of my motivations for posting this thread...guess I should've mentioned that... :squint: ....sorry...

 

 

Trekbike, I've been using AA#2, especially for wadcutters with good results. It's also working well for 130 gr cast powder coated bullets we make.

 

I too use W231 for 158 gr .38's, as well as Unique.

 

From what I read...again, it's the interweb... but it sounds like flake powders won't be affected. I hope that's true anyway because I am down right addicted to Unique.

 

 

Anybody using Titegroup or the newer powder Clean Shot for .38's?

[stumpy]

I was at the NRA convention in Nashville and stopped at the Hodgdon booth.  Got to carry off a couple of their newest reloading manuals and had a few minutes of discussion about the scarcity of powders with their rep.  He claimed they were working to make more product available to the public but demand has more than passed their ability to produce.  That still does not answer the almost nationwide shortages.  As for HP-38 / WW-231, he stated they do intend to reduce their production and eventually replace it with Titegroup.  If a factory rep claims this is what is coming, there is little we as consumers can do about it other than making calls and letters begging them to continue their production of a favorite product.  Probably my reason for using so much HP-38 is it's versatility.  It performs well over a multitude of calibers within it's burn speed and pressure limits.  Titegroup does not appear to have this flexibility and would push me to other products, probably to another manufacturer.  

 

Stumpy

[musicman]

I've been falling in love with all the AA pistol powders. I prefer it in light loads, especially, where charge weights can get kind kind of squirrelly with powders of larger particulate size when using a Lee Pro Auto Disc measure. The AA stuff is like fine sand in an hourglass and measures beautifully.

I still have many other powders and will continue to use them, but pretty much just buy AA when I see it, and am fine "burning" through the rest of the stuff without replenishment. I don't feel I'll be at a disadvantage when I load the last of my HP38/231 stash.

There are SO many good options out there that any one or two going away won't cause me too much pain. I see Ramshot powders a lot more than I did 5-6 years ago, and have had a few good results with things like Zip and Trueblue, Enforcer and Silhouette. I don't prefer them to the AA stuff mainly because there seems to be less data available for them.

For AA, I use #2 pretty much wherever Titegroup and HP38/231 is used, like a light target load for wheelguns. #5 for mid range auto loads where Titegroup would be at its max pressure. In those cases, it seems #5 has a little more breathing room. #7 for stronger 40 and 10mm loads. #9 for heavy Magnum revolver stuff where I also use 296/h110 and 2400. Edited August 17, 2015 by musicman

[Jamie Jackson]

I like AA#2 as well musicman and will have to try some AA#5 when I run across some. Thank you.

 

Options are a good thing. :pleased:

[Jamie Jackson]

"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" wrote Mark Twain....seems likely the above was as well.

 

+1 to Dave Campbell and Hodgdon for a timely response.

 

 

"I have heard nothing that would make me believe we are on the verge of losing W231/HP-38, but I do think that availability will continue to be an issue. I can assure you W231/ HP-38 will continue to be in the Hodgdon / Winchester product lines.

 

Mike Daly was mistaken."

 

Dave Campbell

Customer Service Representative

Hodgdon Powder Company

6430 Vista Drive

Shawnee, KS 66218

913-362-9455 Ext. 117

[gregintenn]

To me, banning such a popular product would be akin to Ford dropping the F-150 from it's line.

 

It's so popular that you can't find it anywhere now.

 

Stranger things have happened, but it doesn't pass the smell test.

[Jamie Jackson]

I totally agree Greg. And greatly appreciate Campbell responding so quickly.

 

Man...I don't know who Mike Daly is but I wouldn't won't to be in his shoes right now. :ugh:

 

Still...it good to have options these days. I know this shortage has certainly expanded my powder reserve. LOL

[Trekbike]

Maybe they floated that info out just to see how much pushback there was to the news. Too much and they keep it in the product line. Not much and they go ahead and pull it.

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[Guest BCR#1]

I picked up an 8 lb jug of #5 at the last Chatta. show for $180 OTD and added to the 2 1/2 lbs I already have, should last me a few years.

I also have 1lb of 231 that I've never unsealed. I guess it will sit on the shelf for a while.

 

Bill