Input On Next Rifle Purchase

[Durvelle27]

I'm looking at buying a new rifle for range usage and home defense but so many great options available. I'll be purchasing through Grabagun since I've had great experiences with them.

So far I've looked at the

DPMS Oracle
DPMS Panter
Taurus CTG2
Century ARMs VZ2008 AK47

Any help is greatly appreciated

[Pete123]

Dolomite,

 

Thanks for taking time to educate Durvell and the rest of us - great post.

[EssOne]

 

 

...............................................................................The DPMS Oracle is a great beginners gun but if you plan on actually shooting more than a magazine a month, or if you will be relying on it to save a life, there are much better options out there. I have seen more problems out of Oracles than any other one gun. Not sure what a DPMS Panter is but anything DPMS, except the Recon G2, would be a last resort gun after I broke the handle on my shovel...............................................................DPMS has gotten a lot better over the years but I would avoid anything other than the G2 like the plague.

 

If I HAD to have an AR style weapon on a budget I would start with the S&W Sport. It has everything you could want in a budget gun. After that I would build my own paying close attention to the BCG and barrel specs. At a minimum you MUST have a melonited barrel if you want long term durability that is also impervious to corrosion............................................................................

 

I would not own, even if given to me, ANY of the guns on that list. They are all bottom of the barrel as far as quality goes except the VZ and see above about the VZ. They use proprietary, all of them, parts so finding spare parts for parts that commonly break is going to be an exercise in insanity...........................................................

 

 

 

Excellent advice. If you're going to hang in there with bargain basement rifles, make sure they have a good reputation with owners, like the S&W Sport as stated, and perhaps the very popular Del-Ton line. I would add my voice to the advice to stay away from DPMS products, given the high rate of dissatisfaction with them by owners, and buying a rifle that uses proprietary parts and assemblies isn't the way for a new guy to go.

 

If you will Google any rifle you are considering buying and ask for reviews, you will usually receive actual user comments from a number of sources, and to me, user comments and well-done reviews determine whether I buy the gun or not. Here is an example in the form of a review of one of the Del-Ton guns. I would add that reviews done by the traditional gun magazines such as Guns&Ammo and Shooting Times aren't always as critical as they should be, so study a number of reviews before making up your mind. (PS - I'm not recommending the Del-Ton gun in the review, I'm just using it as an example of what a well-done professional review looks like.)

 

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/chris-dumm/gun-review-del-ton-evolution-ar-15/

Edited August 16, 2015 by EssOne

[Durvelle27]

Buy a current production WASR. The days of them being crap are long gone. I have bought seven Romanian guns in the last two years and they have been PERFECT.
 
The VZ2008 uses proprietary magazines that are extremely hard to find and extremely expensive. The VZ itself shares no parts with any other gun so parts will also be extremely hard to find.
 
The DPMS Oracle is a great beginners gun but if you plan on actually shooting more than a magazine a month, or if you will be relying on it to save a life, there are much better options out there. I have seen more problems out of Oracles than any other one gun. Not sure what a DPMS Panter is but anything DPMS, except the Recon G2, would be a last resort gun after I broke the handle on my shovel. The Recon G2 is an amazing gun that is not like any other 308 battle rifle on the market. It was a complete redesign to overcome all the problems with the standard G1 recon. DPMS has gotten a lot better over the years but I would avoid anything other than the G2 like the plague.
 
If I HAD to have an AR style weapon on a budget I would start with the S&W Sport. It has everything you could want in a budget gun. After that I would build my own paying close attention to the BCG and barrel specs. At a minimum you MUST have a melonited barrel if you want long term durability that is also impervious to corrosion.
 
Have you actually held the Taurus? It is a 9mm carbine that is the weight of a full size battle rifle in 308. It also has the most craptastic polymer sights I have ever seen. The whole sighting system is cheap plastic that moved easily. The polymer used seems like it is awfully soft, kind of hard to explain but you can feel a difference between it and other polymer guns. And I have heard nothing but bad things about it as far as reliability goes which takes a lot to screw up a blowback gun.
 
I would not own, even if given to me, ANY of the guns on that list. They are all bottom of the barrel as far as quality goes except the VZ and see above about the VZ. They use proprietary, all of them except maybe the Oracle, parts so finding spare parts for parts that commonly break is going to be an exercise in insanity.
 
If I had to pick one gun in the under $700 range it would be a WASR AK. It is a gun that is built 100% overseas then imported by CAI. It is a true milspec AK-47 not some US made copy. Then take the $100 you have left over and buy four magazines, the ammunition to fill those magazines and a type 63 Chinese chest rig or NCStar AK chest rig. That will go a long way towards having a functional gun that you can use to save a life. They truly are a deal in today's market. You can also mount an optic, which is impossible with the VZ2008.
 
The WASRs of past had a lot of problems but the current production guns are about as perfect as you can get. The cold hammer forged barrel, that is also chrome lined, will probably last longer than you, your children and your grandchildren. The trigger, a CAI made trigger, is an amazing trigger for an AK. It is a two stage deal with a light first stage and the second stage is pressure only to fire. Truly an amazing trigger in any gun but especially so for an AK. My Romanian guns, I have three including a WASR, work with every magazine I have tried. Tapcos, bakelite, combloc steel, Asian steel, Magpul, 20 round tankers (both combloc and Asian) and drum magazines all work perfectly

No I've never held a Taurus CTG2. Currently the rifle I own is a ISSC MK22 but the S&W Sport looks great and isn't very expensive. What about the Del-Ton Sport Light

[Fourtyfive]

Piston Adams Arms $629

 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411555894/Reserve+Order+Guns/Adams+Arms+16%22+Carbine+5.56+30%2B1+Piston+Blem?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AR7-31-15

[Dolomite_supafly]

Piston Adams Arms $629

 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411555894/Reserve+Order+Guns/Adams+Arms+16%22+Carbine+5.56+30%2B1+Piston+Blem?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AR7-31-15

 

Hard to beat a piston AR for under $700 shipped

[EssOne]

No I've never held a Taurus CTG2. Currently the rifle I own is a ISSC MK22 but the S&W Sport looks great and isn't very expensive. What about the Del-Ton Sport Light

 

I've owned a couple of Del-Ton AR's and they generally have a very good reputation with their owners. From my experience with them, if a small company is going to produce a decent low cost AR that performs well enough for personal defense, Del-Ton is the one I would expect to do it. But since I've not owned the rifle you mention, here is a U Tube review by a reviewer of very good standing in the gun community. He likes it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQ6JB3r61s

[Durvelle27]

I've owned a couple of Del-Ton AR's and they generally have a very good reputation with their owners. From my experience with them, if a small company is going to produce a decent low cost AR that performs well enough for personal defense, Del-Ton is the one I would expect to do it. But since I've not owned the rifle you mention, here is a U Tube review by a reviewer of very good standing in the gun community. He likes it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQ6JB3r61s

If the quality is decent I'd go with the Del-Ton as I can acquire it for $479

[gregintenn]

If you want an AR, I've put together some pretty good stuff cheaply by watching daily sales at palmetto state armory.

 

Anderson Arms also sells AR parts as well as complete rifles at very competitive prices. I've had no problems with their stuff either.

 

If you'd prefer an AK, I second Dolo's suggestion of a WASR. I've read a lot of bad reviews on the net regarding them, but my experience with them has been stellar.

 

Furthermore, I've found the SKS to be a pretty much trouble free, foolproof design that can still be had a reasonable prices.

Edited August 16, 2015 by gregintenn

[EssOne]

If the quality is decent I'd go with the Del-Ton as I can acquire it for $479

 

Well, if it has your attention, I'd start looking at the reviews. Del-Ton tends to hold prices down by doing things like sticking to the 1:9 twist rate, not plating or meloniting their barrels, etc, none of which affect reliability. Here are a bunch of user reviews of Del-Ton products: 

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/531409_Del_Ton_Reviews.html

 

http://www.officer.com/article/10977976/del-ton-sport-ar-style-rifle-review

 

http://www.gundigest.com/firearm-gun-reviews/ar-15-review-del-ton-tapco

 

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/01/06/del-ton-dti-mid-length-5-56-ar15m4-carbine-rifle-review/

 

Anyway, these should give you a goodly amount of authoritative information you're looking for.

 

(Later note: My comment concerning reliability assumes a normal level of proper maintenance.)

Edited August 16, 2015 by EssOne

[gjohnsoniv]

As already stated, the VZ2008 isn't actually a an AK-47. It shares some design ideas but it's a completely different rifle all together.

Why don't build an AR? You could build a really nice one for cheap right now.

[Durvelle27]

If you want an AR, I've put together some pretty good stuff cheaply by watching daily sales at palmetto state armory.
 
Anderson Arms also sells AR parts as well as complete rifles at very competitive prices. I've had no problems with their stuff either.
 
If you'd prefer an AK, I second Dolo's suggestion of a WASR. I've read a lot of bad reviews on the net regarding them, but my experience with them has been stellar.
 
Furthermore, I've found the SKS to be a pretty much trouble free, foolproof design that can still be had a reasonable prices.

  
I don't really have a preference. I was just looking at the options.

Well, if it has your attention, I'd start looking at the reviews. Del-Ton tends to hold prices down by doing things like sticking to the 1:9 twist rate, not plating or meloniting their barrels, etc, none of which affect reliability. Here are a bunch of user reviews of Del-Ton products: 
 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/531409_Del_Ton_Reviews.html
 
http://www.officer.com/article/10977976/del-ton-sport-ar-style-rifle-review
 
http://www.gundigest.com/firearm-gun-reviews/ar-15-review-del-ton-tapco
 
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/01/06/del-ton-dti-mid-length-5-56-ar15m4-carbine-rifle-review/
 
Anyway, these should give you a goodly amount of authoritative information you're looking for.
 
(Later note: My comment concerning reliability assumes a normal level of proper maintenance.)

Thanks reading them now

  

As already stated, the VZ2008 isn't actually a an AK-47. It shares some design ideas but it's a completely different rifle all together.
Why don't build an AR? You could build a really nice one for cheap right now.

If that's an option I wouldn't mind building one.

[gregintenn]

 

   If that's an option I wouldn't mind building one.

If I can do it, anyone can. You'll need a few inexpensive tools. There's no shortage of instruction and information on the net. The options are virtually endless this way.

[Oh Shoot]

If you go factory built, might consider the Ruger AR 556. Plenty of gun for the money, street price 'bout the same as S&W Sport but has full featured upper.

 

 

 

 

- OS

Edited August 16, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you go factory built, might consider the Ruger AR 556. Plenty of gun for the money, street price 'bout the same as S&W Sport but has full featured upper.

 

 

 

 

- OS

 

That too. Went so long without a Ruger AR15 that I completely forget about them all the time.

 

Plenty of different ways to get into an AR15 and because it is probably the most customizable firearm on the planet you can either build it to suit you or buy then swap parts to suit you.

[Durvelle27]

If I can do it, anyone can. You'll need a few inexpensive tools. There's no shortage of instruction and information on the net. The options are virtually endless this way.

  
I'll definitely look into this option

If you go factory built, might consider the Ruger AR 556. Plenty of gun for the money, street price 'bout the same as S&W Sport but has full featured upper.
 

 
 
 
- OS

Thanks

Looks decent and has a price of $599

[Paisan]

I believe the best VALUE in semiauto rifles is the Colt 6720 "Light weight LE Carbine". $799.00 through G&R Tactical. Free shipping if you're an M4carbine.net memmber.

 

This is a no compromise / no future regrets rock-solid foundation. I've bought 2 and am saving toward a 3rd. Grant is great to work with.

 

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720

[Durvelle27]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Contemplating on my choice now.

[EssOne]

Be sure to let us know what you decide, OK?

[Durvelle27]

Decided on the VZ58 as its a great fun and very reliable. Read countless great reviews on it. And I scored a great deal on some 7.62x39 rounds at my local Walmart.

[gregintenn]

I'd like to hear what you think of it once you get it and shoot it some.

[Durvelle27]

I'd like to hear what you think of it once you get it and shoot it some.

will do