Warning about full auto, RDIAS, DIAS, Lightning Link etc

[Dolomite_supafly]

This is a warning for individuals or trusts who are unfamiliar with the NFA laws relating to machine guns.

 

 

First rule of thumb, if it is to good to be true it probably isn't true.

 

You cannot buy ANY full auto that is legally registered for under $3,000 now, especially an AR-15/M16. Legally registered  full auto ARs are now $15K-$30K depending on the make, model. The days of cheap full autos went away in May of 1986 and after that date there was no way to register or make a machine gun legally as an individual or as a trust. You cannot legally convert your gun into a machine gun without registration and that registration ended in May of 1986.

 

So if someone is trying to sell you a machine gun or the parts to convert your gun into a machine gun be aware it is not legal in any way shape or form to convert your gun to a machine gun after the 1986 date. Possession of the parts needed to make a machine gun is just as illegal as possessing the machine gun itself.

 

Even if your gun was made before the May 1986 cutoff date it cannot be converted into a machine gun unless it was actually registered as a machine gun prior to May of 1986.

 

If someone is trying to sell you a machine gun ask for the Form 1, Form 3 or Form 4 to verify it is properly registered. I would also suggest you get the serial number and verify that the serial number is on file with the ATF. The reason is there has been a rash of people making up phony Form 4's, accepting payments then when the buyer tries to transfer it becomes clear the item is not on the NFA registry. This also applies to any other NFA item you are buying from another individual.

 

The only people who can legally posses a new machine gun after May of 1986 is government, law enforcement, the military or dealers licensed to manufacture or demo, or sell them.

 

So if you are contacted by ANYONE wanting to sell you the parts to convert your gun to a machine gun, "no questions asked", run away. What they are selling is illegal to posses and install in any gun not registered prior to May of 1986. 

 

And yes, there is a reason why I am posting this now.

 

You have been warned!

 

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I wanted to add something else.

 

This also applies to lower receivers that might already be fitted with the machine gun parts. I recently read of some people trying to sell airsoft lowers as full auto lowers. Some are built so realistic that it would be easy for anyone, especially someone who is not familiar, to confuse them for the real thing.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Dolomite_supafly

[Metalhead]

Had a guy come into the shop about this time last year bragging that he bought two German MP40's from a buddy of his' grandpa. I said, "Sweet man, I always wanted to play around with an MP40. You got the paperwork right?"

 

He did not know what I was talking about.

[DaveTN]

I’m kinda surprised that I see many stories of how you can buy parts or skirt the law on machine guns by people that would wear out Google on any other law.

I have friends that know my machining skills; they have asked if I could convert an AR15 to fully automatic. My answer is “yes”. When they ask why I don’t do it my answer is “Prison”.

However, I have no desire to own a fully auto weapon; I can turn cash into empty brass fast enough without one. And I sure don’t want the expense of defending myself in court if I win, or going to prison if I lose.

I can’t think of anything I need or want that I would pay the government for the privilege to own; the costs are ridiculous. I feel that someday suppressors may be legal to buy without the Feds involvement. If that happens the price will drop to where it should be. Edited August 15, 2015 by DaveTN

[Pete123]

There isn't any way I could imagine the risk of owning an illegal machine gun would pay off.  While I don't personally feel this way, I imagine our legal system treats illegal machine gun ownership as a very serious crime, ensuring jail time and making you un-employable when you get out.

 

I also like what Dave said about how much it costs to shoot one.  If I could legally buy an AR without paying extra that could switch to three shot bursts I would get it.  

 

I've always said I wanted to shoot a machine gun.  Now, they rent them at Nashville Armory.  I could splurge one day and rent one, yet I just don't find myself interested.

[Mark@Sea]

Full auto = missing faster. Lots of fun, though.

[gregintenn]

Thanks for the reminder. I wasn't aware this had become a problem. Of course, there are a lot of things I'm not aware of.

[Omega]

No fan of full auto, but of course I don't think they should be outlawed.  I do wonder how they dealt with the weapons brought back from the wars? During WWII and Korea I am sure many weapons were brought back by soldiers wanting a souvenir.  There are bound to be some squirreled away in some attic that were here before the law went into effect.

 

From the current wars there have been some that were brought back illegally, as some guys were caught, so it stands to reason others were not.  There is no doubt about legality with those or the ones brought back by units, I know my unit brought back a few, but they had to become possessions of the museum so legal.  So my guess is that some of those will be offered up for sale, as well as those used by the ATF for stings.

[Johnny Rotten]

This is a warning for individuals or trusts who are unfamiliar with the NFA laws relating to machine guns.

 

 

 

 

If someone is trying to sell you a machine gun ask for the Form 1, Form 3 or Form 4 to verify it is properly registered. I would also suggest you get the serial number and verify that the serial number is on file with the ATF. The reason is there has been a rash of people making up phony Form 4's, accepting payments then when the buyer tries to transfer it becomes clear the item is not on the NFA registry. This also applies to any other NFA item you are buying from another individual.

 

Here's a perfect example

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/general.cgi?read=76455

[Johnny Rotten]

No fan of full auto, but of course I don't think they should be outlawed.  I do wonder how they dealt with the weapons brought back from the wars? During WWII and Korea I am sure many weapons were brought back by soldiers wanting a souvenir.  There are bound to be some squirreled away in some attic that were here before the law went into effect.

 

From the current wars there have been some that were brought back illegally, as some guys were caught, so it stands to reason others were not.  There is no doubt about legality with those or the ones brought back by units, I know my unit brought back a few, but they had to become possessions of the museum so legal.  So my guess is that some of those will be offered up for sale, as well as those used by the ATF for stings.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/322347_So_you_found_an_MG_in_the_attic______.html

[Omega]

www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/322347_So_you_found_an_MG_in_the_attic______.html

Great read, at least they allowed veterans some souvenirs back then.  We were given a general order not to even try bringing anything back, even something non auto.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The requirement to register a MG stems from the 1934 NFA act not the FOPA act of 1986. Anything brought back would have had to have been registered almost immediately. If it wasn't registered before 1986 it cannot be registered after 1986.

[enfield]

I've heard that the bottom of San Francisco Bay is littered with such souvenirs.

[Johnny Rotten]

I've heard that the bottom of San Francisco Bay is littered with such souvenirs.

 

Nope there right here

 

​

[Cigarlvr313]

On 8/15/2015 at 4:20 PM, enfield said:

I've heard that the bottom of San Francisco Bay is littered with such souvenirs.

And other more toxic "Souvenirs" from the city's sewers.......I hate to kill the dream but it is true

[DaisyMae]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have to ask. Should I assume it's a replica/air-soft

Edited January 7, 2017 by DaisyMae
Added pic

[Ronald_55]

Is a stripped lower technically full auto just because it has a setting scribed on it? Or if you put a semi lpk in it, does that make it a semi?

[MacGyver]

It's the third hole that'll get you in trouble on a lower - not the markings.  

[Omega]

Yup.

[Ronald_55]

26 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

It's the third hole that'll get you in trouble on a lower - not the markings.  

Like everything else no one wants you messing with the 3rd hole. Lol

 I had not even paid attention to that, but I have no inclination to own a legal or otherwise full auto. I go through enough ammo as is.

[Johnny Rotten]

Couple things look fishy

The roll marks look good, including the M16A1 above the caliber markings.

1. The bolt catch is not right, was it broken off or is it possible that lower was sitting a Ares Defense Shrike/MCR upper?

2. The reinforcements on the lower for the buffer tube look totally wrong, I can't see how a upper could fit on that lower, little lone the charging handle to work properly...

So I'm saying fake..

[Dolomite_supafly]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Couple things look fishy

The roll marks look good, including the M16A1 above the caliber markings.

1. The bolt catch is not right, was it broken off or is it possible that lower was sitting a Ares Defense Shrike/MCR upper?

2. The reinforcements on the lower for the buffer tube look totally wrong, I can't see how a upper could fit on that lower, little lone the charging handle to work properly...

So I'm saying fake..

The hole for the hammer pin is also larger than the rest.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

1 minute ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

The hole for the hammer pin is also larger than the rest.

 

Good catch, it's not right

[DaisyMae]

I assumed it was fake so no worries  

thanks for your input-much appreciated! There are other pieces as well...no need to research any more. 

[Omega]

Definitely a replica, made in Japan.  They make some pretty good copies, non-working of course. This one looks to be a model, not airsoft, and even has the same sn.

http://page14.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s512972459#enlargeimg

[A.J. Holst]

With the round top bolts available online along with a brother stationed in Korea, I wonder how much law I could break with some M1 carbine parts...