Discussion Of Possible Gun Legislation, Parks Again

[m16ty]

Honestly, I have no fear whatsoever being shot by a handgun permit holder. I do have a fear of being shot by a cop in a bad situation.

[DaveTN]

But even if my numbers are off by 50% your are still more likely to die at the hands of LE than at the hand of a person who carries a firearm for self defense.

With cops moving towards the problem and others moving away from the problem; that’s a safe bet.

[dawgdoc]

The disease is infecting Chattanooga: http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/festival-organizers-want-guns-parks-law-reconsidered-19631.shtml.  The organizers of Riverbend and other concerts don't like the fact that guns are allowed in public parks.

 

“We don't allow Frisbees at Riverbend because people throw them and possibly hit someone in the head, and hurt them. So, I mean, laser pointers, Frisbees and oh, guns? It just doesn't make sense,” said Executive Director Chip Baker.

 

Because your realistic expectations are that anyone with a gun will be waving it around, randomly shooting people?  What an idiot.  As if no one has to walk in the dark long distances from Riverbend back to their cars.  As if no one has ever been attacked at Riverbend.

Edited August 19, 2015 by dawgdoc

[300winmag]

Handguns that are carried at these events are generally concealed the whole time.  The risk is usually going back and forth across a parking lot close to the event.  If it is safe enough for off duty LEO to carry, then it is safe enough for people with handgun carry permits.  Both groups of people usually keep their handguns holstered and concealed.  No one even knows for the most part.

 

The NRA, other gun organizations, and people need to keep the pressure on our legislators that this type of law is a good law that allows honest people to protect themselves walking to and from their cars at night.  We also need to let them know that in the vast majority of states where this is legal, there are no problems.

Edited August 19, 2015 by 300winmag

[ma6907]

As long as we citizens allow the government to disobey the law, we are going to lose our rights.  Issues like--our government creating sanctuary cities, allowing states to ignore federal drug laws, allowing our Federal Goverrnment to record and store our phone calls, allowing cities like NYC to disregard the 2nd amendment, and yes--even our own state and local cities directly ignoring Attorney General opinion--then we will lose our rights.

Edited August 20, 2015 by ma6907

[K191145]

I wonder what it will take for Nashville to start obeying state law? They seem to be thumbing their nose at Attorney General Slatery's opinion, as if he were an idiot for actually believing the law says what it says.

 

Will it take a test case, a lawsuit, what?

 

There's very little chance that i'll go to any event at one of these parks, it's just not my thing usually but if I ever do i'll be wearing my gun. As far as i'm concerned, the State law and AG's opinion says I can. Now i'm not going to boast or brag about it and I don't open carry but cities can't make up their own rules that conflict with state law. 

[phil1979]

Someone who usually open carries will attend some of these events at public parks eventually. I wonder what the authorities resisting state law will then do?

 

I know I'd be one of the open carriers if I was there. It is my usual mode of carrying my pistol.

Edited August 21, 2015 by phil1979

[10-Ring]

Someone who usually open carries will attend some of these events at public parks eventually. I wonder what the authorities resisting state law will then do?

 

I know I'd be one of the open carriers if I was there. It is my usual mode of carrying my pistol.

Part of the reason that I'm not interested on open carrying in public is that I won't have to spend massive amounts of money to prove my innocence when one of those authorities that wants to resist the state law decides to make an example out of me.  I hope this does happen and I hope that the open carrier wins his case and then sues the pants out of everything he can afterwards but it won't be me.

[K191145]

Part of the reason that I'm not interested on open carrying in public is that I won't have to spend massive amounts of money to prove my innocence when one of those authorities that wants to resist the state law decides to make an example out of me.  I hope this does happen and I hope that the open carrier wins his case and then sues the pants out of everything he can afterwards but it won't be me.

 

Where's Kwiknru when you need him?  :)

[DaveTN]

Where's Kwiknru when you need him?   :)

I would guess being charged with a felony will cause you to chill.

[K191145]

I would guess being charged with a felony will cause you to chill.

Yea I forgot about that. 

[Oh Shoot]

Yea I forgot about that. 

 

Since Kwik doesn't have a carry permit, it wouldn't even be a 1311 test.

 

- OS

[monkeylizard]

Where's Kwiknru when you need him?   :)

LOL. I was just about to post that exact same thought.

[K191145]

LOL. I was just about to post that exact same thought.

 

It's hard to find a strange case like him, one who actually enjoys and gets off on legal hassle and spending money on lawyers. 

[ma6907]

Where's Kwiknru when you need him?   :)

Oh. man.  You HAD to say his name?

[Oh Shoot]

Oh. man.  You HAD to say his name?

 

Well, he misspelled it, otherwise would have come out as Voldemort. :)

[ma6907]

The thing about THIS law is there is an AG opinion pretty much specifically written for the new Amphitheater downtown in Nashville (I know it applies to other venues, but it was written about the new amphitheater.)  One would NOT be "testing the waters".  It would be illegal for them to deny entry and since law enforcement is sworn to uphold the law, you would clearly have the non-vague attorney general opinion on your side.  I can think of NO reason that you could be denied entry.  If the cops were to show up, they would almost be obliged to arrest the person denying you?

[Oh Shoot]

The thing about THIS law is there is an AG opinion pretty much specifically written for the new Amphitheater downtown in Nashville (I know it applies to other venues, but it was written about the new amphitheater.)  One would NOT be "testing the waters".  It would be illegal for them to deny entry and since law enforcement is sworn to uphold the law, you would clearly have the non-vague attorney general opinion on your side.  I can think of NO reason that you could be denied entry.  If the cops were to show up, they would almost be obliged to arrest the person denying you?

 

What with 39-17-1311 and 39-17-1359 not being clearly in sync, I'd say the issue is gray enough that only a clear revision of the statutes or accepted case law will be definitive. And of course case law means somebody has to be prosecuted.

 

It's much like the issue of carrying past a statutorily non-compliant sign in 1359, culpability one way or the other not clear in the statute and also untested in court.

 

- OS

Edited August 27, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[monkeylizard]

I can think of NO reason that you could be denied entry.  If the cops were to show up, they would almost be obliged to arrest the person denying you?

 

Nashville's greasy attorney can. He says that attending a concert is not "recreating" so it doesn't fall under the recreational language of the law.

[300winmag]

I think you'd be denied entry or asked to leave at that amphitheater but I doubt you'd be arrested on a weapons charge.  The amphitheater is inside the boundary of a park from what I understand, so it would be legal to carry in.  It is also a recreational type property on top of being inside a park.

 

Of course if you conceal your handgun, you probably would not be denied entry or asked to leave because no one would know about it.  It will be kind of a hassle if you want to open carry and insist that the event organizers allow you in and then bring a lawsuit over the deal for the organizers denying entry.

[DaveTN]

The thing about THIS law is there is an AG opinion pretty much specifically written for the new Amphitheater downtown in Nashville (I know it applies to other venues, but it was written about the new amphitheater.)  One would NOT be "testing the waters".  It would be illegal for them to deny entry and since law enforcement is sworn to uphold the law, you would clearly have the non-vague attorney general opinion on your side.  I can think of NO reason that you could be denied entry.  If the cops were to show up, they would almost be obliged to arrest the person denying you?

Once again, an AG opinion is not law. The legislature makes laws and the courts enforce and interpret them; neither is bound by anything the AG has to say. These issues will have to be addressed in a courtroom or by new legislation. No one is going to arrest anyone that is refusing entry to someone with a gun.

[monkeylizard]

I think you'd be denied entry or asked to leave at that amphitheater but I doubt you'd be arrested on a weapons charge.  The amphitheater is inside the boundary of a park from what I understand, so it would be legal to carry in.  It is also a recreational type property on top of being inside a park.

 

Nashville's city attorney disagrees with you. http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2015/07/30/ag-private-companies-cant-ban-legal-guns--public-parks/30898391/

Edited August 28, 2015 by monkeylizard

[300winmag]

I don't think that Nashville city attorney's legal reasoning is up to par from a plain reading of the law and after reading the AG's opinion.  In my opinion, he is twisting some words to tell his bosses what they want to hear.  Also, I don't think he is the city prosecutor.

 

Like I said, if you conceal your handgun you shouldn't have any problems if you attend a venue at that location.

[chances R]

Hey the AG is on your side. Load up strap on and let it ride. We will be watching.

[monkeylizard]

I don't think that Nashville city attorney's legal reasoning is up to par from a plain reading of the law and after reading the AG's opinion.  In my opinion, he is twisting some words to tell his bosses what they want to hear.  Also, I don't think he is the city prosecutor.

 

Like I said, if you conceal your handgun you shouldn't have any problems if you attend a venue at that location.

 

I don't disagree with that. I'm just less likely to say "I doubt you'd be arrested on a weapons charge" knowing what the city attorney thinks. Arrested and convicted are two different things and I don't think a conviction has any chance, but that's just my opinion. I suspect that if one were arrested, the DA qould choose not to prosecute based on the AG's opinion. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Metro PD has been instructed via the office of the city's attorney and/or the mayor's office that Ascend is off-limits. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I don't know. All I know for sure is that this won't be cleared up with certainty without legislative or judicial action.