Attach a REAL butt stock to your pistol without NFA

[Dolomite_supafly]

Really cool idea but it begs the question it is not NFA because it is not permanently attached. But an adjustable butt stock is not "permanently" attached either. Can I take a "pistol" and remove the part of the stock that locks into the buffer tube and be legal? After all it would just fall away from the gun like this thing.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I really like this idea as it is yet another way to get around the ridiculous laws regarding NFA items.

 

http://www.recoilweb.com/usa-1shot-non-nfa-butt-stock-for-your-handgun-69131.html

[peejman]

Cool idea. Guess we'll hear what the ATF thinks about it soon.

[Ugly]

I never thought about a stock on a pistol but this idea seems pretty darn handy.

I do yard work with a ruger lite for snakes and such. This would come in handy for the trespassing groundhogs!

Many gov rules don't make sense! Edited July 30, 2015 by Ugly

[Oh Shoot]

Really cool idea but it begs the question it is not NFA because it is not permanently attached. But an adjustable butt stock is not "permanently" attached either. Can I take a "pistol" and remove the part of the stock that locks into the buffer tube and be legal? After all it would just fall away from the gun like this thing.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I really like this idea as it is yet another way to get around the ridiculous laws regarding NFA items.

 

http://www.recoilweb.com/usa-1shot-non-nfa-butt-stock-for-your-handgun-69131.html

 

I don't know of any definition of "stock". Certainly not one in the USC or CFR. So whether it's "permanently attached" or not would seem moot.

 

The definition of rifle does not use the term "stock", so I don't see how this is any kind of out. Especially since ATF as per Mad Max Kingery now states that even using something they've clearly said is not a stock against the shoulder still constitutes the making of an SBR.

 

I'd guess the description of the interaction between the company spokesman and the ATF is likely not really very accurate, we'll see.

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Moped]

Pretty neat idea and design!!!  I wouldn't mind having something like this as long as it's legal.

[Omega]

Not a fan, where would you carry it?  Besides, I am not in need of a stock for a pistol stock unless it's for one in a traditional rifle caliber.  I'll stick to sig braces since it seems if you shoulder any single handed "gun" you're a potential victim of the ATF.

[Ted S.]

What is the relation of the term "to lock in place" with "permanently" attached? I have an ATI stock for an AR, and no special tools are needed to remove it, so it can be quickly removed and installed. I'm sure it's not even a gray area with the ATF, but their SBR rules are just plain stupid anyways.

[Oh Shoot]

What is the relation of the term "to lock in place" with "permanently" attached? I have an ATI stock for an AR, and no special tools are needed to remove it, so it can be quickly removed and installed. I'm sure it's not even a gray area with the ATF, but their SBR rules are just plain stupid anyways.

 

ATF has never made a distinction regarding "permanent" or "lock in place" etc regarding a stock. They simply determine whether something is a stock or not based on .. well, based on their own say so.

 

But now, they are extending SBR to include items that are NOT stocks, by their own call. Which so far include braces and cheek rests. By simply adhering to the USC definition of rifle, ie, "...designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder."

 

Assuming they remain consistent with this, then I don't see how they could assert that the device under discussion doesn't do the same, ie, redesign the firearm to be fired from the shoulder, the same determination they made with the braces and cheek welds, which they say redesigns the firearm when used against the shoulder.

 

- OS

[Ted S.]

ATF has never made a distinction regarding "permanent" or "lock in place" etc regarding a stock. They simply determine whether something is a stock or not based on .. well, based on their own say so.

 

But now, they are extending SBR to include items that are NOT stocks, by their own call. Which so far include braces and cheek rests. By simply adhering to the USC definition of rifle, ie, "...designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder."

 

Assuming they remain consistent with this, then I don't see how they could assert that the device under discussion doesn't do the same, ie, redesign the firearm to be fired from the shoulder, the same determination they made with the braces and cheek welds, which they say redesigns the firearm when used against the shoulder.

 

- OS

 

ATF just needs to stop harassing people. Guns were all good and fun until they showed up and pooped in the punchbowl.

[Dolomite_supafly]

ATF has never made a distinction regarding "permanent" or "lock in place" etc regarding a stock. They simply determine whether something is a stock or not based on .. well, based on their own say so.

 

But now, they are extending SBR to include items that are NOT stocks, by their own call. Which so far include braces and cheek rests. By simply adhering to the USC definition of rifle, ie, "...designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder."

 

Assuming they remain consistent with this, then I don't see how they could assert that the device under discussion doesn't do the same, ie, redesign the firearm to be fired from the shoulder, the same determination they made with the braces and cheek welds, which they say redesigns the firearm when used against the shoulder.

 

- OS

Yeah, and AK with JUST a buffer tube is not considered an SBR. Never would have thought that in a million years but I have the letter to prove it.

[Garufa]

Has anyone written the ATF for an opinion letter yet?  The regulations usually come right after that.

[Caster]

I always wondered if one could make an attachment that goes on your shoulder and has a hole in it that conveniently fits the buffer tube of a pistol.
It's not a buttstock and its not permanently attached???

[Oh Shoot]

I always wondered if one could make an attachment that goes on your shoulder and has a hole in it that conveniently fits the buffer tube of a pistol.
It's not a buttstock and its not permanently attached???

 

Again, "permanently" attached has never been a criterion of any ATF ruling regarding a stock so I don't understand why all the stressing of that. Indeed, the only significance of anything being "permanent" in the area of SBR is a muzzle device counting in both barrel and overall lengths.

 

"Attachable" was also not defined at all in SCOTUS Thompson decision either, btw.

 

- OS

Edited July 30, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[shotgunshooter]

So either this or a Sig Brace....decisions, decisions.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So either this or a Sig Brace....decisions, decisions.

There is also the Shockwave.

[TNWNGR]

Sometime back in the 1970's their was a big blow up over a front cover picture and subsequent article of a similar "non-attached" stock that ATF wasn't happy with. As best I recall it was a leather pocket and wood contraption with a long barreled S&W N frame in it and looked great. It also got a resounding thumbs down. I'll be interested in seeing if someone at ATF resurrects that ruling and apples it to this reinvention of synthetic materials.

[nightrunner]

Sometime back in the 1970's their was a big blow up over a front cover picture and subsequent article of a similar "non-attached" stock that ATF wasn't happy with. As best I recall it was a leather pocket and wood contraption with a long barreled S&W N frame in it and looked great. It also got a resounding thumbs down. I'll be interested in seeing if someone at ATF resurrects that ruling and apples it to this reinvention of synthetic materials.

Now that sounds much more interesting than this contraption in the OP.

No cop is going to use one of these things. Ever.

I don't see a hunter utilizing one while out hunting either.

It's just another range toy. Edited July 30, 2015 by nightrunner

[seax]

I've got one similar that fits a S&W K frame. Been out of production for a long time. So the concept has been in the market before. It is a two piece all aluminum that does not adjust and is much smaller.