Some Thoughts on Buying/Selling Used Firearms

[Sidewinder]

Just because a gun is the same make and model as one listed on the gun auctions, doesn't mean it's value is the same. There are 55 Chevy's worth $5,000 and 55 Chevy's worth $50,000 and the same principle applies to firearms. Then, a two door hardtop 55 Chevy model would probably bring more than one of a lower grade model in the same condition. Obviously, there are a number of considerations when assesing the value of a firearm of the same make and model. Here are a few, and possibly some of you can think of others.

1. Condition...this is pretty simple, normally a truck gun of the same make and model as a mint condition safe queen, is not worth as much. A gun with a defect, such as rust, pitting, worn blueing, cracks and splits in the wood furniture, broken firing pins, reblued and refinished wood hardware and missing sights, will be worth less.

2. Grade... same make and model... a field grade is not worth as much as an intermediate grade or a deluxe grade. Usually, it is wise to take a close look at the capital letters at the end of the basic model number. There can be a significant difference in values between the bottom and top grades.

3. Age...can up the price or lower the price, depends on how much age we're talking about and if it has collectable status. Going back to the Chevy... a 2013 Chevy is probably worth less than a 2015 Chevy... but an original condition 1955 Chevy, with 28,000 actual miles, in a two door hardtop may be worth more than the two combined. Likewise, firearms from the 1800s usually fetch more than the same make and caliber of a modern example.

4. Location... certain guns fill their nich better in some locations than others. As an example, some states ban center fire rifles for deer hunting. Shotguns with slug barrels would probably bring more there than states without that restriction. At least one state bans semi-auto rifles for deer hunting. Naturally, a pump rifle in a deer harvesting caliber, would bring more there than it would in states without that restriction. A super big bore rifle would probably be worth more in Alaska than it would be in Alabama.

5. Season... just as a kayak is worth much less in December, than it is in July, guns can bring less when all of the hunting seasons are closed than they do in the open season. With the popularity of target shooting at an all time high, this may or may not hold true...probably depending on the make, model and caliber.

6. Brand (make)... not much to say here. A Rolls Royce usually is worth more than a Chevy. You know the RR of guns... we affectionally call them snob guns, as many of us can't afford them. Personally, I can only afford to window shop.

7. Scarcity.... usually, these guns have been out of production for a number of years... and often they had a short production run. Back to the automibile example... there was a time when you could hardly give away a Ford Edsel...check out the prices of them these days.

8. Motivation... this can be the motivation of the seller or buyer. Usually, we think of it as the motivation of the seller, as the seller is the one that establishes the asking price. Someone out of work and needing to feed their family may be a motivated seller, while someone with plenty of money may be a motivated buyer. Usually, this is where the tactic of negotiation (dickering) comes into play.

Many of you may think of areas I have missed, but these come to mind as I read the listings on the sites that offer these treasures for us to consider. Good buying and good selling to all my gun connoisseur brotheren. As a seller, we don't want to sell too low...and, as a buyer, we don't want to pay too much. A fair price, for buyer or seller, is the ideal situation. Good luck to both buyers and sellers.

[Spiffy]

There are only 2 kinds of guns  Like New In The Box and Battleworn.  If someone doesn't think it's LNIB then it's Battleworn.......both are worth a premium ;)

[runco]

I have said it before, there are men who will take a bath selling/trading their used car and lose thousands of dollars, but will not negotiate one red cent on a gun, even a well used gun that is over priced! 

[Moped]

People crack me up with some the prices they want for a used firearm.  I see used Glocks on a daily bases priced higher than a brand new one at a LGS.  The ones that really are cracking me up right now are Taurus PT111 G2s.  Right now in the Knoxville area you can buy them at two different LGSs for $199 and $219.  And there are several for sale on FB for $350!  Do these people not check other ads?  Seeing the same thing with SCCY 9MMs.  A LGS is selling them for $215 and some guy wants $300 firm on his and he marked it down to that!!!

 

People need to educate themselves about what they have and what it's really worth!

[btq96r]

5. Season... just as a kayak is worth much less in December, than it is in July, guns can bring less when all of the hunting seasons are closed than they do in the open season. With the popularity of target shooting at an all time high, this may or may not hold true...probably depending on the make, model and caliber.

 

I'd add tax season to this category. 

 

2015 being my first tax season on TGO, I was surprised how many members were selling guns to raise funds for their returns, or make up for the hole it left in their savings.  There were some good deals around then, and I'll make sure I have my eye out come Feb-April of 2016 for a can't miss deal.

[Spiffy]

I love the whole "But I gave $XXX for it!"......like it's the buyer's fault that the seller over paid for it to start with.

[Jonnin]

good list.  I would add a couple more:

 

9) paranoia.   if you think the "background check" that just happens to have the make / model & SN is properly disposed of, this one does not apply.  If you worry about a hidden database,  buying  a few off the radar may have monetary value to you.  

 

10). package.  A glock with 5 extra magazines, a holster, and its original box is worth more than "the naked gun".  

 

11).  Other costs.    Yea, that thing costs 200 bucks listed at the LGS, but its TN.   That means it costs 230 at least, with tax and background.  Yea, you are willing to sell it to me for 175, but its going to cost me a full tank of gas -- call it 10 gallons at 2-3 bucks each ---  so its going to cost me 195 - 215 total so the new one is a better deal.  

[DaveTN]

The internet has changed how most things are bought and sold. You need to have good internet skills.

It’s not logical to be pizzed at the seller. If they can find someone to buy it; so be it. If they can’t; it will sit. Not that many years ago I was going through a lot of used guns; it gave me the opportunity to try a lot of different ones. Now I pretty much just buy new.

Too many people running a gun business as a hobby. If you see a gun at a price you like, you better move on it right then or they will jump on it and you will see it back up at a higher price.

I’ve also had good luck a couple of times using the WTB option. I’ve had people contact me with reasonable prices on guns that weren’t listed or forum members giving me a heads up on who had good deals on new.

[Sidewinder]

I love the whole "But I gave $XXX for it!"......like it's the buyer's fault that the seller over paid for it to start with.

Spiffy, I know what you are saying. I've heard sellers say, "I have $xxx in it" or "I gave $xxx for it", with the implication that they have to get $xxx for it. What a person " paid" for a gun does not automatically establish the fair market value of the gun. It's easy to pay too much, not only with an individual, but with the LGS as well. We've all seen the price on a particular gun vary as much as $100, or more, for the same make and model at retail gun stores.

[Sidewinder]

good list.  I would add a couple more:
 
9) paranoia.   if you think the "background check" that just happens to have the make / model & SN is properly disposed of, this one does not apply.  If you worry about a hidden database,  buying  a few off the radar may have monetary value to you.  
 
10). package.  A glock with 5 extra magazines, a holster, and its original box is worth more than "the naked gun".  
 
11).  Other costs.    Yea, that thing costs 200 bucks listed at the LGS, but its TN.   That means it costs 230 at least, with tax and background.  Yea, you are willing to sell it to me for 175, but its going to cost me a full tank of gas -- call it 10 gallons at 2-3 bucks each ---  so its going to cost me 195 - 215 total so the new one is a better deal.

Jonnin, thanks for the extra items. My reason for starting this thread was for each of us to pass on to others things that we have learned in buying and selling...or trading. Hopefully, many more will add things from their experiences.

[Sidewinder]

The internet has changed how most things are bought and sold. You need to have good internet skills.It’s not logical to be pizzed at the seller. If they can find someone to buy it; so be it. If they can’t; it will sit. Not that many years ago I was going through a lot of used guns; it gave me the opportunity to try a lot of different ones. Now I pretty much just buy new.Too many people running a gun business as a hobby. If you see a gun at a price you like, you better move on it right then or they will jump on it and you will see it back up at a higher price.I’ve also had good luck a couple of times using the WTB option. I’ve had people contact me with reasonable prices on guns that weren’t listed or forum members giving me a heads up on who had good deals on new.

DaveTN, excellent observation, one which brings up the question... is there a number of transactions per year that would require a "hobby business" to get an FFL? Just asking. And, if there is, does anyone know the number?

[spurge]

Another that I have come across is when you counter what the seller is asking they become offended that you are asking for less than they advertise. Buying and selling is about agreeing to terms. If terms are different there is no need to complete the transaction. Also, there is no need to be offended if someone values what you are selling differently than you.

[Oh Shoot]

Another that I have come across is when you counter what the seller is asking they become offended that you are asking for less than they advertise. Buying and selling is about agreeing to terms. If terms are different there is no need to complete the transaction. Also, there is no need to be offended if someone values what you are selling differently than you.

 

There is no specific number.

 

It's against federal law to be "in the business" of doing it without a license, which means:

 

"...as applied to a dealer in firearms ... a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms"

 

"The term “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection"

 

(All from 18 USC § 921 - Definitions)

 

Guess who decides?

 

- OS

Edited July 17, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[Spiffy]

good list.  I would add a couple more:

 

9) paranoia.   if you think the "background check" that just happens to have the make / model & SN is properly disposed of, this one does not apply.  If you worry about a hidden database,  buying  a few off the radar may have monetary value to you.  

 

10). package.  A glock with 5 extra magazines, a holster, and its original box is worth more than "the naked gun".  

 

11).  Other costs.    Yea, that thing costs 200 bucks listed at the LGS, but its TN.   That means it costs 230 at least, with tax and background.  Yea, you are willing to sell it to me for 175, but its going to cost me a full tank of gas -- call it 10 gallons at 2-3 bucks each ---  so its going to cost me 195 - 215 total so the new one is a better deal.  

 

I will admit that I'll pay a little more for a used gun than "fair market price" for #9.  Never know when that might be handy.

[Sidewinder]

Another that I have come across is when you counter what the seller is asking they become offended that you are asking for less than they advertise. Buying and selling is about agreeing to terms. If terms are different there is no need to complete the transaction. Also, there is no need to be offended if someone values what you are selling differently than you.

I have encountered this on an occasion myself, Spurge.

Another that I have ran into, on a gun that I was seriously interested in that was listed on a local site, when I asked the seller about some specifics about the gun they would drop all communications. I've encountered this when asking questions about the condition of the gun. At this point, the seller holds all of the cards... has the gun in his hands. The seller can look at the gun and tell if the blueing is worn away in certain areas, if there is rust fretting, rust, pitting, or scratches on the metal parts of the gun. It is the seller that knows about the condition of any wood furniture... is the finish original and what condition it's in... does it have cracks, splits, gouges or is it unblemished. It is the seller that knows if there is anything wrong with the gun... is the rifling shot out and the bullets key-holing, is one of the ejectors broken, does the gun not cycle properly.

Another thing that concerns me, when buying from a total stranger, is the history of the gun. Does the seller have a reasonable idea that the gun is not stolen? The seller should be willing to tell the buyer if he inherited the gun from his grandad, that bought it in a hardware store in the 50s, or if he recently bought it from someone he's never seen before in his life. There is a phone number...a hot list number...that any police station can check the serial number and tell if the gun is a stolen gun. I've heard some guns go through four or five buyers and sometimes years, before they are found through someone checking this list. This number is the first number a pawn shop, LGS, or gun show dealer will call, before they will buy a firearm.

So... bottom line... if a seller is evasive or reluctant to answer your questions, walk away. If they shut down any communications when you ask questions, they are probably doing you a favor. They could be hiding something about the gun, or they're generally a jerk, and you'd be better off not trying to negotiate/deal with this kind of individual.

In the final analysis, you... the buyer, have the option of walking away and keeping your money in your pocket. You're better off not to deal with a dishonest person, or a jerk.

[Sidewinder]

The case hardning condition on used guns with case hardened receivers, plays heavily into the value of that type firearm. There's case hardning that looks like it's faded (lightened), and there's case hardning that looks like it was done yesterday. There are dominant colors contrasted deeply in a new case hardened receiver/frame. Like faded paint on a car doesn't affect it's functionality, neither does faded case colors on the receiver/frame of a gun... but, both reduce the sale value and astetic appeal. Faded case colors takes a gun out of the "mint/excellent" overall condition, just as faded paint on a used car. I don't have any example pics to post here, and pics may not show the color hews properly, but the next time you see a brand new gun, with a case hardened receiver/frame, check it out. It's beautiful.

[A.J. Holst]

Be prepared to walk away from the sale...buyer or seller...getting a bad vibe, not getting that warm and fuzzy, last minute angst...walk away

[Dolomite_supafly]

Had a guy who bought a DPMS Oracle from Walmart for under $600. Then a few months later he decided to sell it and I asked him how much. He said $800 and I asked why so much. His response was that $800 was a deal because he put over $300 worth of ammunition through the gun so, according to him, it is worth $900 but he is giving someone a deal at $800. I have actually had people tell me that shooting a brand new gun increases its value because it costs both time and money to break it in.

[Sidewinder]

Had a guy who bought a DPMS Oracle from Walmart for under $600. Then a few months later he decided to sell it and I asked him how much. He said $800 and I asked why so much. His response was that $800 was a deal because he put over $300 worth of ammunition through the gun so, according to him, it is worth $900 but he is giving someone a deal at $800. I have actually had people tell me that shooting a brand new gun increases its value because it costs both time and money to break it in.

Dolomite, people have some strange justifications for their asking price sometime. It seems that one of the hardest to negotiate on is one with "sentimental" attachments. It can be awkward when making offers... especially if the other person takes offense because it was granddad's gun, and now he's passed...or he bought it for me when I was a kid. I have a gun like that... and I'd never sell it. I think that's what the seller should do also... keep it, or sell it to a close relative.

[Sidewinder]

Be prepared to walk away from the sale...buyer or seller...getting a bad vibe, not getting that warm and fuzzy, last minute angst...walk away

That is some very sage advice, Gotthegoods! However, sometimes, gun fever can be like "new car fever"...and we pay too much because we feel we've just got to have it...for a passle of reasons. I have walked away at times...then there's been times I wished I had walked away later... buyer's remorse.

[A.J. Holst]

That is some very sage advice, Gotthegoods! However, sometimes, gun fever can be like "new car fever"...and we pay too much because we feel we've just got to have it...for a passle of reasons. I have walked away at times...then there's been times I wished I had walked away later... buyer's remorse.

Kinda like the cz52 I bought last month at smkw...impulse but no buyers remorse!

[Clod Stomper]

Had a guy who bought a DPMS Oracle from Walmart for under $600. Then a few months later he decided to sell it and I asked him how much. He said $800 and I asked why so much. His response was that $800 was a deal because he put over $300 worth of ammunition through the gun so, according to him, it is worth $900 but he is giving someone a deal at $800. I have actually had people tell me that shooting a brand new gun increases its value because it costs both time and money to break it in.

Wow.

[Trekbike]

Had a guy who bought a DPMS Oracle from Walmart for under $600. Then a few months later he decided to sell it and I asked him how much. He said $800 and I asked why so much. His response was that $800 was a deal because he put over $300 worth of ammunition through the gun so, according to him, it is worth $900 but he is giving someone a deal at $800. I have actually had people tell me that shooting a brand new gun increases its value because it costs both time and money to break it in.

Using that logic, I guess he thinks the value of his new car is worth more after he puts about 3,000 "break in" miles on the car...

[Sidewinder]

Jus heard Phil Valentine say that gun sales have gone up, after the Muslim terrorist murdered our unarmed military men in Chattanooga. I think he specifically mentioned the AR-15s. I wonder if the prices will go up also?

[Sidewinder]

Don't know how you take the "emotion" out of someone asking too much for grandad's, or dad's, gun after they have passed away. Sorta makes you feel like you're walking on egg shells, especially when you want the gun... but not at that price. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has ran up against this. How do you guys handle it, without being perceived as a cold hearted jerk?

Love to hear from a lot of you... especially those of you that have been successful in navigating these barriers. Thanks.