Shootings in Chattanooga and Cleveland?!?!

[bersaguy]

I could care less where or how he got his guns, or what type of gun he used. Gun control, arming the military on base, nothing will stop a person set on killing a bunch of people. Most of these shooters know they are going to die; and are okay with that. It’s simply a matter of how many people they kill before someone kills them.

Of course the anti-guns nuts are going to use this. But you know what? It’s not working. We aren’t having our gun rights reduced; they are being expanded most everywhere you look. Illinois now has carry and Tennessee allows carry in a car without an HCP. I think most people, even if they don’t want to carry, understand that the risk of being in a mass shooting is increasing; they want some chance other than waiting on the Police to respond.

I see the only chance of being able to slow this down is for law enforcement to be proactive instead of having to wait for a shooter to start dropping bodies.

I think the Police would be proactive if someone snitched the shooter out before he went on the killing spree but if the police have no clue one it about to happen then they can only react when it does. I think the Chattanooga Police department did a remarkable job of responding and stopping this active shooter or there may have been more killed or injured. I just wish they would have caught him before he was able to get out of the car...........jmho

[gregintenn]

I could care less where or how he got his guns, or what type of gun he used. Gun control, arming the military on base, nothing will stop a person set on killing a bunch of people. Most of these shooters know they are going to die; and are okay with that. It’s simply a matter of how many people they kill before someone kills them.

Of course the anti-guns nuts are going to use this. But you know what? It’s not working. We aren’t having our gun rights reduced; they are being expanded most everywhere you look. Illinois now has carry and Tennessee allows carry in a car without an HCP. I think most people, even if they don’t want to carry, understand that the risk of being in a mass shooting is increasing; they want some chance other than waiting on the Police to respond.

I see the only chance of being able to slow this down is for law enforcement to be proactive instead of having to wait for a shooter to start dropping bodies.

How would you propose this happens?

[DaveTN]

How would you propose this happens?

Investigate a threat of violence as it should be and not call it “Free Speech” which it is not and never has been.

If you get on Facebook, YouTube, TGO or anywhere else and make threats that you are going to go out and start killing people; you are arrested and tried in court.

[Omega]

I could care less where or how he got his guns, or what type of gun he used. Gun control, arming the military on base, nothing will stop a person set on killing a bunch of people. Most of these shooters know they are going to die; and are okay with that. It’s simply a matter of how many people they kill before someone kills them.

Of course the anti-guns nuts are going to use this. But you know what? It’s not working. We aren’t having our gun rights reduced; they are being expanded most everywhere you look. Illinois now has carry and Tennessee allows carry in a car without an HCP. I think most people, even if they don’t want to carry, understand that the risk of being in a mass shooting is increasing; they want some chance other than waiting on the Police to respond.

I see the only chance of being able to slow this down is for law enforcement to be proactive instead of having to wait for a shooter to start dropping bodies.

Though arming those that are in the crosshairs may not stop all the killings, it will at least give them a fighting chance. The police have arrived remarkedly fast in past incidents, and I feel they have saved lives such as at the draw mohammed contest, but they are still not as fast as having someone on site armed and ready to defend themselves. We know that more laws are not needed, but we need to start rethinking how we in the US want to live, either meek and dependant on law enforcement for protection or armed to the teeth and responsible for the front line of self defense.

[gregintenn]

Investigate a threat of violence as it should be and not call it “Free Speech” which it is not and never has been.

If you get on Facebook, YouTube, TGO or anywhere else and make threats that you are going to go out and start killing people; you are arrested and tried in court.

My concern is that this can easily be taken advantage of. I do agree something needs to change; I'm just not sure what exactly.

[DaveTN]

My concern is that this can easily be taken advantage of. I do agree something needs to change; I'm just not sure what exactly.

Anything can be taken advantages of. There are no magic answers, but there are common sense ones. Yes, things can go wrong, but you deal with them when they do. You don’t wait to see the muzzle flash.

[Chucktshoes]

Anything can be taken advantages of. There are no magic answers, but there are common sense ones. Yes, things can go wrong, but you deal with them when they do. You don’t wait to see the muzzle flash.

Your proposition is a total non-starter because that issue has already been dealt with in the courts. Threats must meet a threshold of believability where the person making the threats must not only have the intent but the ability to carry them out. Random spouting off on the Internet or in public isn't an actual threat. Therefore, it is not prosecutable. .

[Oh Shoot]

Expecting a HUGE group of people to show up to the funeral of the Marine that will be buried in Chattanooga since Westboro Baptist Cult I mean Church said they are going to protest it...

 

Which one is going to be buried in 'Nooga?

 

- OS

[DaveTN]

Your proposition is a total non-starter because that issue has already been dealt with in the courts. Threats must meet a threshold of believability where the person making the threats must not only have the intent but the ability to carry them out. Random spouting off on the Internet or in public isn't an actual threat. Therefore, it is not prosecutable. .

Hence my comment of an investigation. Apply for an execute search warrants, interview and take statements from witnesses. If you have a case; arrest and prosecute. If you don’t; drop it. What we appear to have now is a bunch of hand wringing and criminal huggers.

If you threaten your neighbor or co-worker chances are you will be arrested. What makes you think it’s any different when someone threatens to kill whitey/blacks/gays/Muslims/whatever? Just because you didn’t make a threat against a specific person doesn’t mean it’s not a creditable threat. Of course they are prosecutable; it just requires people with the ability to do their job properly.

I’m a responsible gun owner and I’m tired of seeing us all thrown together. If you threaten someone with violence; throw your azz in jail and pull your gun rights. Responsible gun owners aren’t threatening to kill people and making dumb azz you tube videos about the violence they will commit if things don’t go their way.

Or we can stand by and do nothing until these nut cases go active. Then we can all act appalled and pray for the dead and their families.

I am not suggesting any form of gun control or enhanced background checks. I’m saying that when someone hears a threat and comes forward; it is investigated. That is eventually what is going to happen, and it’s what happens in many places now where they have responsible citizens, Police Officers, Prosecutors and courts. Hiding behind “free speech” to make threats is ridiculous.

[Wingshooter]

Which one is going to be buried in 'Nooga?
 
- OS

Petty Officer Randall Smith, so I'm told. I can't find a link though

[Moped]

CBS News is reporting tonight that the gunman was armed with an AK47, AR15 and a .45 caliber handgun.

[Wingshooter]

This Facebook post has been getting some attention. I don't know the author but thought I'd share

Dear Mr. President,
Where are you? As I sit here at 4:30 in the morning with my seven year old daughter who hasn't slept since our City was attacked by a t...errorist who grew up here and called it "Home" for 24 years of his Muslim life..
Where were you? When the family of our five brave men who lost their lives that day were informed of the dreadful news, did they receive a call from you, our concerned, caring, president? I beg to differ. Instead you gave a nine minute very insincere apology about what occurred in Chattanooga Tennessee. From my heart Mr. President, as a Native Chattanoogan you have no right to even utter the words of my hometown. When the 9 Church members were killed in Charleston, why you made no hesitation to scurry there, even rush behind a pulpit even preach a funeral! Then you took it upon yourself to sing the old hymn "Amazing Grace" trying so hard to bring God's spirit into that place and thru the TV screen. Let me be the first poor single mother to tell you Mr. President you didn't fool me. There was no God in your "Presentation", no God in that "Speech" that your overpaid blind to your B.S. Muslim Personal Assistant prepared for you. No no no Mr. President, you see We The People are fed up with you. Instead of being an Honorable President, and ordering ALL flags at half mass, you didn't order any. Instead of trying to find out what this idiot had been doing to plan this attack all these months, you go on VACATION. WE SEE where you priorities lie, we see that you don't care these men protected your family as well. Your 'white' house you live in is surrounded by Secret Service men, all armed. Let's take their guns away, like our service men and women and see how many days you call in sick.
Mr. President..... Where will you be, during the funerals of our five fallen men??? From my heart I say this to you, STAY AWAY, we don't need you now. HERE IN THE GREAT CITY AND STATE OF CHATTANOOGA TENNESSEE WE DON'T LIKE COWARDS. WE ARE A COMMUNITY OF STRENGTH, SPIRIT, AND LOVE. HEROES ARE BORN AND RAISED HERE AND WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN!

Signed,
A Daughter Of A Soldier

https://www.facebook.com/kristynkenlee?fref=nf&pnref=story

Edited July 19, 2015 by Wingshooter

[Chucktshoes]

Hence my comment of an investigation. Apply for an execute search warrants, interview and take statements from witnesses. If you have a case; arrest and prosecute. If you don’t; drop it. What we appear to have now is a bunch of hand wringing and criminal huggers.

If you threaten your neighbor or co-worker chances are you will be arrested. What makes you think it’s any different when someone threatens to kill whitey/blacks/gays/Muslims/whatever? Just because you didn’t make a threat against a specific person doesn’t mean it’s not a creditable threat. Of course they are prosecutable; it just requires people with the ability to do their job properly.

I’m a responsible gun owner and I’m tired of seeing us all thrown together. If you threaten someone with violence; throw your azz in jail and pull your gun rights. Responsible gun owners aren’t threatening to kill people and making dumb azz you tube videos about the violence they will commit if things don’t go their way.

Or we can stand by and do nothing until these nut cases go active. Then we can all act appalled and pray for the dead and their families.

I am not suggesting any form of gun control or enhanced background checks. I’m saying that when someone hears a threat and comes forward; it is investigated. That is eventually what is going to happen, and it’s what happens in many places now where they have responsible citizens, Police Officers, Prosecutors and courts. Hiding behind “free speech” to make threats is ridiculous.

In reference to the bolded portion, that's exactly what it means legally and hence they are not prosecutable sans clear and overt evidence of planning. Words alone won't even justify going very far with regards to investigations because of the hyperbolic nature of speech in the medium of the Internet and the chilling effects investigations may have on speech. I know you disagree, but the courts, including SCOTUS have been pretty clear. No need to look any farther than Camden, TN and the incident with Yeager's YouTube tirade on how the .gov has to back down when it overreaches.

[Oh Shoot]

CBS News is reporting tonight that the gunman was armed with an AK47, AR15 and a .45 caliber handgun.

 

All "automatic" too I'm sure.

 

- OS

[DaveTN]

In reference to the bolded portion, that's exactly what it means legally and hence they are not prosecutable sans clear and overt evidence of planning. Words alone won't even justify going very far with regards to investigations because of the hyperbolic nature of speech in the medium of the Internet and the chilling effects investigations may have on speech. I know you disagree, but the courts, including SCOTUS have been pretty clear. No need to look any farther than Camden, TN and the incident with Yeager's YouTube tirade on how the .gov has to back down when it overreaches.

I agree with you. But once again...investigation. Conspiracy requires one act in furtherance; threatening someone’s life does not.

The government wasn’t backed down on Yeager. They acted swiftly and did what they should have done. Also, he did a 180, was remorsefully and apologetic. (Of course he did, he saw his business going down the tubes). He also had a good legal counsel to represent him. Had he tried to represent himself as our other local dumbazz; his business, HCP and possibly guns would be gone.

[Moped]

All "automatic" too I'm sure.

- OS

Actually they didn't say that. Just identified the weapons.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

[dawgdoc]

Petty Officer Randall Smith, so I'm told. I can't find a link though

 

I drove by his neighborhood on the way home today; the entrance sign was turned into a memorial with flags and signs.  

[Chucktshoes]

I agree with you. But once again...investigation. Conspiracy requires one act in furtherance; threatening someone’s life does not.

The government wasn’t backed down on Yeager. They acted swiftly and did what they should have done. Also, he did a 180, was remorsefully and apologetic. (Of course he did, he saw his business going down the tubes). He also had a good legal counsel to represent him. Had he tried to represent himself as our other local dumbazz; his business, HCP and possibly guns would be gone.

Competent legal counsel was the key there. Remember, everyone gets all the Justice they can afford.

[gregintenn]

Hence my comment of an investigation. Apply for an execute search warrants, interview and take statements from witnesses. If you have a case; arrest and prosecute. If you don’t; drop it. What we appear to have now is a bunch of hand wringing and criminal huggers.

If you threaten your neighbor or co-worker chances are you will be arrested. What makes you think it’s any different when someone threatens to kill whitey/blacks/gays/Muslims/whatever? Just because you didn’t make a threat against a specific person doesn’t mean it’s not a creditable threat. Of course they are prosecutable; it just requires people with the ability to do their job properly.

I’m a responsible gun owner and I’m tired of seeing us all thrown together. If you threaten someone with violence; throw your azz in jail and pull your gun rights. Responsible gun owners aren’t threatening to kill people and making dumb azz you tube videos about the violence they will commit if things don’t go their way.

Or we can stand by and do nothing until these nut cases go active. Then we can all act appalled and pray for the dead and their families.

I am not suggesting any form of gun control or enhanced background checks. I’m saying that when someone hears a threat and comes forward; it is investigated. That is eventually what is going to happen, and it’s what happens in many places now where they have responsible citizens, Police Officers, Prosecutors and courts. Hiding behind “free speech” to make threats is ridiculous.

Sort of like Gibson Guitar was "investigated"? I'm sorry, but I don't have a lot more faith in our government at this juncture than I do of terrorists. I sure wish this were not the case.

 

How would you like to be "investigated" for some random post you posted here?

 

You're heart is in the right place, but what you are proposing is scary to me.

Edited July 20, 2015 by gregintenn

[superduty]

CBS News is reporting tonight that the gunman was armed with an AK47, AR15 and a .45 caliber handgun.

They were also careful to add that it was an AR15 'assault rifle', and that the guy had been to a local range "where anyone could show up and fire weapons, whether they had a license or not".

Good grief.
Facts just dont make good news, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Wingshooter]

http://youtu.be/xLx8bLeDdJs Edited July 20, 2015 by Wingshooter

[A.J. Holst]

What is official policy for the flag to be flown at half staff?

Does the death of these servicemen qualify?

They were on the job...

[Omega]

What is official policy for the flag to be flown at half staff?

Does the death of these servicemen qualify?

They were on the job...

I don't know who ordered it but it was at half staff on our compound on Friday when I left.

[DaveTN]

Sort of like Gibson Guitar was "investigated"? I'm sorry, but I don't have a lot more faith in our government at this juncture than I do of terrorists. I sure wish this were not the case.
 
How would you like to be "investigated" for some random post you posted here?
 
You're heart is in the right place, but what you are proposing is scary to me.

It shouldn’t scare you; it should come from our law enforcement community, or legislators, and our courts, and should be a warning to people that threatens violence that it won’t be tolerated. Our founding fathers would not have tolerated it and it shouldn’t be tolerated today. Claiming that making threats is protected by free speech is ridiculous. However, you can obviously find bleeding heart Judges that will agree with anything.

I understand that you don’t like cops; we all get it. Your comments in the past have made that clear. I don’t say that to be mean or disrespectful to you; you obviously have met some pretty bad cops. There are a couple of former cops on here that feel the same way you do. I assume they have their reasons for felling that way and that’s fine. I feel sorry that they had to be part of a Department that allowed whatever actions they disagreed with.

I openly support law enforcement and am as proud of that service as I am of my military service. Anyone that knows me knows that when the cops are right, I support them, when they are wrong I don’t. I feel lucky that I worked shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of good cops. I am proud of them and the job that I did. I have helped people, I have saved lives, and I have put people in jail; all without violating anyone’s rights.

I don’t fear our government. I don’t fear the Police. If they want to investigate me for something I said on here or anywhere else or something I did; so be it. If I threatened someone that was not a threat to me with violence I would expect to be arrested. Some people have the idea that making threats on the internet is not a crime; it is. Some think that if you are stealing using the internet it is not a crime; it is. The fact that law enforcement doesn’t always have the manpower or the jurisdiction to investigate them doesn’t make it okay.

The Gibson guitar fiasco was an investigation into environmental regulations; not violent crime. I don’t know why agents needed to be armed with anything other than warrants and paperwork. Why they needed to have a show of force or send employees home (if that happened) is beyond me. The Justice Department and the Federal Marshals would need to answer that.

I have said here many times I never supported unnecessary force on warrants or the seizure of innocent’s people’s property. But I have also said that’s a real easy one to hold someone responsible on; the Chief of Police or the Sherriff are the sole individuals for setting policies on warrants and entries and the DA is the sole person responsible for authorizing Police Officers to commit theft against innocent people. Seems to me to be an easy fix; but Tennessee is becoming as famous for it as Louisiana was. If the state doesn’t take care of it the Feds will step in and do it for them.

My heart is on the side of the American people that are victims of crime; not the criminals that threaten them. That should not scare you.

[Wingshooter]

What is official policy for the flag to be flown at half staff?
Does the death of these servicemen qualify?
They were on the job...

I'm not sure the official policy, but I'm sure it qualifies.

Here's what the DA for my district has to say of Facebook:

I have hesitated several times before I posted this...partly in hopes it wouldn't be necessary and partly because I did not want to create conflict at a time when unity is so important. However, I finally cannot stay silent. My wife expressed her disappointment and asked why President Obama hasn't done something that we both see as an important sign of national respect. I could not answer her.

Mr. President, it is time to lower the flags at federal buildings for the slain Chattanooga servicemen. It is inexcusable that it hasn't already been done. These are casualties of war...on our own soil. The flag was lowered after Ft. Hood and after the mass shooting at the Washington Naval Yard. These men died at the hands of the same ideology and were targeted for the same reason. Lower the flag and respect the sacrifice.


https://www.facebook.com/votestevecrump