AR 15 Pistol

[gunsablazin]

Although I do not open carry, and don't think it's a good idea, is an AR15 Pistol covered by a TN HCP? I would assume it would, but assumption is rarely a good idea. I have one of these funs, and while I consider it a range "toy", it has obvious potential as a self defense weapon. 

[dcloudy777]

Legally you should be fine, but I still think it's lousy choice.  Rifles have buttstocks for a very good reason.  :pleased:

 

You can legally carry a real rifle in the vehicle... and actual "on-body" carry of even the smallest AR pistol is going to be pretty unwieldy.

[felinesNfreedom]

It's a pistol, so yes.

[monkeylizard]

It's a pistol. You can carry one open or concealed. You should carry it like this just to be extra awesome.  :)

 

[Jonnin]

It depends on the pistol.   I use a kel tec PLR-16 and it IS legal on a HCP.  

Its an awkward weapon to use, but on a day like today, I am glad to own one.

Some configurations and models may violate one of the rules for a "pistol" but TBH the rules for a "pistol" are vague. Very vague.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jonnin

[Oh Shoot]

...

Some configurations and models may violate one of the rules for a "pistol" but TBH the rules for a "pistol" are vague. Very vague.

 

What's vague? What's TBH?

 

One quirk to be aware of in TN: a pistol need not have any particular overall length or barrel length federally, but TCA defines a handgun as having less than 12" barrel.

 

- OS

Edited July 16, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[gunsablazin]

It's a pistol. You can carry one open or concealed. You should carry it like this just to be extra awesome.  :)

 

Thank you for your valuable input! :P That's not exactly what I had in mind, but it is tacti-cool no doubt about it. 

[gunsablazin]

Legally you should be fine, but I still think it's lousy choice.  Rifles have buttstocks for a very good reason.  :pleased:

 

You can legally carry a real rifle in the vehicle... and actual "on-body" carry of even the smallest AR pistol is going to be pretty unwieldy.

  I was not considering on body carry, vehicle carry yes. I was of the opinion that an AR pistol was basically a loud, useless range toy, until I got to spend some time shooting a few of them, no they are not rifles, but they can certainly be be considered a big step up form a conventional pistol. The buffer tube of the AR pistol is very practical for a cheek weld, and can be used as a short stock, for a medium/small build guy like myself it's a bit cramped. but certainly workable. 

[monkeylizard]

AK pistols work too. The mini Draco is roughly 5"-6" shorter over all than a 10.5" barreled AR (YMMV based on buffer tube and muzzle device selection).

 

Dolomite did a cool build of a mini Draco that he shared on this thread:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/82736-my-edc-mini-draco-final-version/

 

ISTM that either could be chosen for carrying, but the goofy holsters are just silly. Keep it in a backpack or murse.

[Jonnin]

What's vague? What's TBH?

 

One quirk to be aware of in TN: a pistol need not have any particular overall length or barrel length federally, but TCA defines a handgun as having less than 12" barrel.

 

- OS

 

vague?  One section says a "handgun" must be designed to be fired by one hand.  When you start talking about these giant pistols, that could be argued either way.  I can certainly FIRE the gun one handed, but I can also fire some of my rifles with one hand too so that does not mean anything.   The AR pistol is too heavy for the vast majority of humans to hold in a single hand and fire correctly.  This might be part of the federal definition, I don't remember where it was but it applied last time I searched (which was a long time ago, when someone actually was under arrest for using an AR pistol and this very question was being asked... but it never was resolved due to a plea).

Edited July 16, 2015 by Jonnin

[2.ooohhh]

vague?  One section says a "handgun" must be designed to be fired by one hand.  When you start talking about these giant pistols, that could be argued either way.  I can certainly FIRE the gun one handed, but I can also fire some of my rifles with one hand too so that does not mean anything.   The AR pistol is too heavy for the vast majority of humans to hold in a single hand and fire correctly.  

There is no mention in the TCA legal definition of the weight, nor any of whether you could actually fire it with one hand. Only pistol, revolver, or other firearm, with a barrel under 12".

 

TCA 39-17-1319 (a,1) “Handgun” means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of the barrel of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed twelve inches (12″)"

[Caster]

Sure you can. Worked for Kwik and who wouldn't wanna be like that guy?

[Oh Shoot]

vague?  One section says a "handgun" must be designed to be fired by one hand.  When you start talking about these giant pistols, that could be argued either way.  I can certainly FIRE the gun one handed, but I can also fire some of my rifles with one hand too so that does not mean anything.   The AR pistol is too heavy for the vast majority of humans to hold in a single hand and fire correctly.  This might be part of the federal definition, I don't remember where it was but it applied last time I searched (which was a long time ago, when someone actually was under arrest for using an AR pistol and this very question was being asked... but it never was resolved due to a plea).

 

There's nothing vague about it. AR and AK pistols are well known throughout both federal and state jurisdictions.  Except for the "assault weapon" ban states, no worries. For all their shenanigans, ATF has never yet questioned the "one hand/two hand" nature of them, though of course that's possible in the future.

 

Yes, there was one scuzzball got jammed up in middle TN for a KelTec PLR16  they claimed was SBR a few years ago, but they had multiple charges pending on him, and that one wouldn't have stuck even if they hadn't dropped it. And it wasn't even an AR.  Obviously, any LEA can do what they like at any time to anyone, at least up to a point.

 

The "fired with one hand" has traditionally been held to mean simply "no stock" or "no vertical forward grip"  though this has now blurred a bit with the opinion regarding braces used against the shoulder. And there's an exception for the VFG on pistols also.

 

But since you seem worried about it, best advice is that you don't get one, I reckon. :)

 

Again, what's TBH?

 

- OS

Edited July 16, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[monkeylizard]

TBH = To Be Honest

[Jonnin]

There's nothing vague about it. AR and AK pistols are well known throughout both federal and state jurisdictions.  Except for the "assault weapon" ban states, no worries. For all their shenanigans, ATF has never yet questioned the "one hand/two hand" nature of them, though of course that's possible in the future.

 

Yes, there was one scuzzball got jammed up in middle TN for a KelTec PLR16  they claimed was SBR a few years ago, but they had multiple charges pending on him, and that one wouldn't have stuck even if they hadn't dropped it. And it wasn't even an AR.  Obviously, any LEA can do what they like at any time to anyone, at least up to a point.

 

The "fired with one hand" has traditionally been held to mean simply "no stock" or "no vertical forward grip"  though this has now blurred a bit with the opinion regarding braces used against the shoulder. And there's an exception for the VFG on pistols also.

 

But since you seem worried about it, best advice is that you don't get one, I reckon. :)

 

Again, what's TBH?

 

- OS

sorry, yes what he said, to be honest.

 

I am not worried about it, really, as I have one.   I don't really carry it much, its in the car for certain trips thru certain places.   Its fun, but impractical, really.

[Oh Shoot]

..   I don't really carry it much, its in the car for certain trips thru certain places.   Its fun, but impractical, really.

 

I keep my basic one behind seat in car also. However, I find 30 rounds of soft point 5.56 traveling at 2600 fps that I can quickly put into torso at point blank to 100 yards to be quite practical indeed if such situation should arise.

 

I'm sure one of them Marines down your way today shore would have loved to have had one in hand.

 

- OS

Edited July 17, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[felinesNfreedom]

I keep my basic one behind seat in car also. However, I find 30 rounds of soft point 5.56 traveling at 2600 fps that I can quickly put into torso at point blank to 100 yards to be quite practical indeed if such situation should arise.

 

I'm sure one of them Marines down your way today shore would have loved to have had one in hand.

 

- OS

Mine is in my truck today and I think it will stay there.

[TLRMADE]

It comes in handy when you want to use one for a truck gun. If you have a hcp you are legal to have one in the chamber.


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[monkeylizard]

Don't need an HCP for that. It's legal for anyone (not otherwise prohibited) to carry a loaded firearm in a personal vehicle in Tennessee now.

 

Besides that, it was never the case that you needed an HCP to have a round chambered in a handgun but could otherwise have a handgun loaded w/o chambered.

 

I think you may be confusing the long-gun change that came along with the vehicle carry change. Prior to the 2014 change to 39-17-1307 (e ) allowing loaded firearms (handguns, rifles, and shotguns) in vehicles w/o HCP, HCP holders had to have an empty chamber on their long guns in their cars. Now anyone not otherwise prohibited can have a loaded firearm (not just handgun) in their vehicle.

 

 

 

(e ) (1 ) It is an exception to the application of subsection (a ) that a person is carrying or possessing a firearm or firearm ammunition in a motor vehicle if the person:
  (A ) Is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g ) or purchasing a firearm by § 39-17-1316; and
  (B ) Is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle.
(2 ) As used in this subsection (e ):
  (A ) "Motor vehicle" has the same meaning as defined in § 55-1-103;
  (B ) "Motor vehicle" does not include any motor vehicle that is:
    (i ) Owned or leased by a governmental or private entity that has adopted a written policy prohibiting firearms or ammunition not required for employment within such a motor vehicle; and
    (ii ) Provided by such entity to an employee for use during the course of employment.

Edited July 17, 2015 by monkeylizard

[gunsablazin]

I keep my basic one behind seat in car also. However, I find 30 rounds of soft point 5.56 traveling at 2600 fps that I can quickly put into torso at point blank to 100 yards to be quite practical indeed if such situation should arise.

 

I'm sure one of them Marines down your way today shore would have loved to have had one in hand.

 

- OS

  I started this post prior to the tragic events of yesterday. It does not seem as silly of an idea today does it. 

[Oh Shoot]

It comes in handy when you want to use one for a truck gun. If you have a hcp you are legal to have one in the chamber.

 

Echo Monkeylizard --

 

The only relevancy a permit has to vehicle carry now is that it allows such in otherwise prohibited parking lots.

 

- OS

[Jonnin]

I keep my basic one behind seat in car also. However, I find 30 rounds of soft point 5.56 traveling at 2600 fps that I can quickly put into torso at point blank to 100 yards to be quite practical indeed if such situation should arise.

 

I'm sure one of them Marines down your way today shore would have loved to have had one in hand.

 

- OS

 

well of course, it has strong and weak points, just like any handgun. And of course anything is better than nothing, which is what the marines had.   From 100 yards, its very practical -- that is what its FOR really, medium ranged shots or an all out street warfare situation, and that is what we had, so in that situation, yes, very good pick.   There is a time and a place for it.  There is a time and a place for something more subtle.   Most days, subtle is a little more practical, is all I was sayin :)      Someone tried walking around with the thing, and as I recall, and it was somewhat less than good at blending in with the sheep.