SC Shooting was with illegal gun

[Monkeyman2500]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/politics/dylann-roof-fbi-gun-south-carolina/index.html
Surprised this came out.

[A.J. Holst]

I'm not surprised, it is more ammo for the anti gun crowd (both in and out of government) to crow, "see criminals can still legally purchase firearms even with background checks. We must crack down on ALL gun sales and retailers."

The 3 day waiting period didn't deter this scumbag from committing his crime. Edited July 10, 2015 by Gotthegoods

[Oh Shoot]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/politics/dylann-roof-fbi-gun-south-carolina/index.html
Surprised this came out.

 

I think the FBI director doesn't know what he's talking about. Doesn't matter what Root "said" about having the drugs.

 

Fact was, he was "under indictment or information" for a felony, and that is the reason the purchase should have been denied, simple as that. With the option to charge him with perjury for lying on the form too.

 

- OS

Edited July 10, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[chances R]

Say it ain't so! The guvmit made a mistake, or not doing its job?!?

[maroonandwhite]

They had to throw the word "loophole" in there.

[Erik88]

NPR was eating this up today on the drive home. As usual they called it a loophole. Then one of their guest speakers claimed that after the 3 day wait period if the FBI hasn't reached a decision then that person can just buy the gun anyways. This doesn't seem right and I have no idea why the 3 day rule is even relevant.

 

The FBI screwed the pooch plain and simple. 

Edited July 10, 2015 by Erik88

[TNWNGR]

What the FBI Director's doing with his statement is called "damage control" whereby you get on the front end of potentially embarrassing or really bad information that you know will be made public. There's little doubt the AG, DOJ and all of its minions are going to run with this tidbit in proposed  future budget requests. The POTUS and Legislature are really going to push this one hard to so the games afoot as the story goes.   

[Oh Shoot]

NPR was eating this up today on the drive home. As usual they called it a loophole. Then one of their guest speakers claimed that after the 3 day wait period if the FBI hasn't reached a decision then that person can just buy the gun anyways. This doesn't seem right and I have no idea why the 3 day rule is even relevant.

 

Yeah, there's no waiting period in SC for handgun purchase, so don't even know what that's about.

 

The only thing I can think of is that there could have been a conditional proceed or something, but that's more like a 15 day thing AFAIK.

 

Who knows. The BS from FBI chief already makes it all murky -- "admitting" to a crime has no meaning. Only a charge or conviction for certain crimes determines the prohibition.

 

- OS

Edited July 10, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[A.J. Holst]

I think the FBI director doesn't know what he's talking about. Doesn't matter what Root "said" about having the drugs.

With the option to charge him with perjury for lying on the form too.

- OS

My guess is a count of perjury due to lying on a form is any kind of deterrent to a criminal. Only law abiding citizens answer the questions truthfully because well, we *try* to follow the rule of law to avoid becoming criminals.

Kinda like the deterrent of prosecution for violating no gun zones.

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, there's no waiting period in SC for handgun purchase, so don't even know what that's about.

 

The only thing I can think of is that there could have been a conditional proceed or something, but that's more like a 15 day thing AFAIK.

 

Who knows. The BS from FBI chief already makes it all murky -- "admitting" to a crime has no meaning. Only a charge or conviction for certain crimes determines the prohibition.

 

- OS

 

Okay, checking further, I guess I get it.

 

Apparently NICS check shows something that's unclear, FBI has three biz days to contact the local agency to check into stuff to determine if it's disqualifying or not. If FFL has not received a decision in those three days, it may go ahead and sell the firearm.

 

So it's not like TN HCP, where any charge without a disposition nukes the process until cleared up.

 

Never really heard of this before, but seems to be the case?

 

 

 

- OS

[Erik88]

Okay, checking further, I guess I get it.

 

Apparently NICS check shows something that's unclear, FBI has three biz days to contact the local agency to check into stuff to determine if it's disqualifying or not. If FFL has not received a decision in those three days, it may go ahead and sell the firearm.

 

So it's not like TN HCP, where any charge without a disposition nukes the process until cleared up.

 

Never really heard of this before, but seems to be the case?

 

 

 

- OS

 

Interesting. I honestly thought the "expert" on the radio was wrong or stretching the truth. 

 

Still, it seems 3 days is more than enough time for the feds to figure this out. They are clearly to blame here.

[Oh Shoot]

Interesting. I honestly thought the "expert" on the radio was wrong or stretching the truth. 

 

Still, it seems 3 days is more than enough time for the feds to figure this out. They are clearly to blame here.

 

Yeah, all they had to do to determine he was ineligible was to verify that he was still under a felony charge. For some reason due to "database error", the FBI could not. So they must have found "something" but couldn't pin it down or whatever.

 

Still don't see why they keep mentioning the "statement" he made at the scene of the arrest had anything to do with it. There's nothing on 4473 about one's having "said" anything in the past as a disqualifying condition.

 

Just same old story I guess, ie, the federal government doesn't do much of anything very well.

 

- OS

Edited July 10, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[VERO1]

I thought daddy bought the nut case a gun for his birthday. Has thought all been dismissed?

[Oh Shoot]

I thought daddy bought the nut case a gun for his birthday. Has thought all been dismissed?

 

Family gave him money for bday, not a gun, though yeah, that got "translated" by MSM early on to "Daddy bought him a heater".

 

- OS

Edited July 11, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[VERO1]

Ok ! Missed that whole chapter, carry on.

[Oh Shoot]

Finally found the reason they keep harping on what Root said about having the drugs:

 

Claiming that meant he was in violation of the "are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to..." drug question on 4473.

 

While still ignoring that he was apparently still charged with a felony, which is the absolutely clear cut reason for a denial.

 

- OS

 

edit: now seeing conflicting information about the drug charge, some sources claim it was felony, some claim misdemeanor possession. So just don't know.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[zybysco]

In TN, the state has 15 days to respond. If a department doesn't respond, then it goes on as a conditional proceed. I suppose SC's must be three days.

[Oh Shoot]

In TN, the state has 15 days to respond. If a department doesn't respond, then it goes on as a conditional proceed. I suppose SC's must be three days.

 

No, that's the federal interval, in 18 USC 922 -- just looked at that part of the statute again, and three days is the time span unless the state has additional requirements,  like TN.

 

(this is not to be confused with the previous federal 3 day waiting period that used to be in effect after Brady, but before NICS cranked up, and which a few states still maintain)

 

- OS

Edited July 11, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[zybysco]

Think anyone actually got fired over this? Or just moved somewhere else? And does this open the government to lawsuits?

[johnboy]

Did anybody ever say what kind of firearm was used? I didn't read the cnn article. Seems I remember they reported he had to reload it 5 times?

[Oh Shoot]

Did anybody ever say what kind of firearm was used? I didn't read the cnn article. Seems I remember they reported he had to reload it 5 times?

 

Don't think they've ever officially said, but apparently a Glock 41 Gen4.  Which is the gun he showed in his onsite pictures. With a SIG laser on it.

 

If the multiple reloads are true,  doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless he just shot everybody a whole bunch of times each.

 

- OS

Edited July 11, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[runco]

I'm not surprised, it is more ammo for the anti gun crowd (both in and out of government) to crow, "see criminals can still legally purchase firearms even with background checks. We must crack down on ALL gun sales and retailers."

 

I have to agree.  What purpose does this announcement serve.  I believe the victims families can't sue the government, so no civil monies can be obtained.  I believe this may be a attempt to stir debate or stir more for the anti gun crowd. 

[DaveTN]

Why is this big deal? Does SC not have private gun sales?

Was there disqualifying information that the FBI had at the time of the purchase?

I’m sick of seeing everything and everyone blamed for this. The perpetrator is the only one to blame. He is a nut case and there couldn’t have been much done if that fact had been known.

Wringing of hands and “What could we do?” Give me a break. Nothing can be done unless we are willing to make it a crime to make violent threats against non-specific individuals. I don’t have a problem with that; it’s not protected by free speech. Though I’m sure that will cause some folks heads to explode.

[vontar]

I like how this is already being rewritten. We the People have already been told by the media it was a gift from his father for his birthday. It is being twisted  to suit special interests groups.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/charleston-shooting-gun-birthday_n_7614162.html

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-church-shooting-updates-htmlstory.html

Edited July 11, 2015 by vontar

[DaveTN]

I like how this is already been written. We the People have already been told by the media it was a gift from his father for his birthday. It is being twisted now to suit special interest agendas.

All you have arguing about it is people with a “Special agenda interest”. The facts will come out, but we don’t have them now.