Don't shoot in the air but if you do, we won't charge you???

[rugerla1]

http://www.fox17.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/Judge-Won-39-t-Issue-Arrest-Warrants-After-2-Hit-by-Stray-Bullets-on-4th-of-July-159029.shtml

 

This is crazy. 

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A 9-year-old girl and 28-year-old man are recovering from gunshot wounds because of stray bullets on the 4th of July. Now Metro police officers tell FOX 17 they can't do anything to prevent this from happening. Officers tell us Davidson County magistrates won't issue arrest warrants for people who celebrate by shooting guns straight into the air. When someone shoots a gun in the air, Metro police tell us they go to night court and ask a magistrate for an arrest warrant. It turns out, their requests are getting denied. As fireworks lit up the sky at Nissan Stadium, bullets fell towards the earth. One hit Tom Michaud in the arm. "You can see a little mark where it went straight down," said Michaud. Another stray bullet hit a 9-year-old girl. "It's pretty sad," said Audrey Moore, a Nashville resident. No one died but Magistrate Tom Nelson says no one will be arrested for these incidents either. Nelson issues arrest warrants. He says he refuses to give police officers permission to arrest people who simply shot their gun into the air. He cites a Tennessee law that states reckless endangerment must put "a person in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury". Nelson says shooting in the air, doesn't meet that threshold. Michaud disagrees, "I think if you shoot in a large crowd like that, you really are putting somebody in imminent danger." "Because once a bullet goes up it has to come down somewhere," said Stacia Thomas, a Nashville resident. "Do you think it's OK to shoot your gun in the air?" asked reporter Sabrina Hall. "Absolutely not," said Dean Baxter, a Nashville resident. "Nobody with any sense would do that. It's the law of physics: what goes up must come down." Yet, Metro Police say they can't arrest people for it because Davidson county magistrates, like Nelson, won't issue a warrant. "I think the law needs to be changed," said Moore. It means even if police learn whose bullet lodged into Michaud's arm, that person won't be charged. "I'm not too happy about that because he obviously caused somebody harm," said Michaud. "Whether it was intentional or not, he could've cost somebody their life." This city code says it's illegal to discharge your weapon within Nashville's city limits unless you're in a shooting range or hunting. Still, the magistrate says he would not issue an arrest warrant for the people who shot their guns on the Fourth of July.

Read More at: http://www.fox17.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/Judge-Won-39-t-Issue-Arrest-Warrants-After-2-Hit-by-Stray-Bullets-on-4th-of-July-159029.shtml

[Oh Shoot]

Doesn't Nashville have a ban on discharging firearms period?

 

- OS

[rugerla1]

Doesn't Nashville have a ban on discharging firearms period?

 

- OS

 

I thought so. I guess they are ignoring the "Responsible for the bullet" statement.

[RED333]

Yes it is unlawful to discharge a firearm in Nashville city limits, IIRC, that is all of Davidson county.

[monkeylizard]

Yes it is unlawful to discharge a firearm in Nashville city limits, IIRC, that is all of Davidson county.

 

That's incorrect. Metro Nashville-Davidson County is divided into two areas, Urban Services and General Services. It's 100% banned all the time outside of shooting ranges in the Urban Services district. In the urban services district, notice that airguns and paintball guns are included. The General Services district is OK during the daytime. While the ordinance allows lawful hunting in the urban services district, I don't know of anywhere in the urban services district where you can be far enough away from an occupied dwelling to not violate TWRA rules, so it's sort of a moot point. As a general guide, if the main streets have street lights and your trash gets picked up by Metro, you're probably in the urban services. There are maps available on the Metro Planning Commission's site if anyone cares that much.

 

Here's the Nashville municple code:

 

11.12.080 - Discharging weapons.

A. It is unlawful for any person to discharge or fire any firearm within the urban services district of the metropolitan government at any time, and within the general services district of the metropolitan government during the nighttime.

For the purposes of this section, the word "nighttime" means that period of time beginning thirty minutes after dusk and ending thirty minutes prior to sunrise.

 

B. It shall further be unlawful for any person to fire or discharge any air gun or air pistol, spring gun or spring pistol, or other device or firearm which is calculated or intended to propel or project a bullet, pellet, air or similar projectile, whether propelled by spring, compressed air or gases, explosive or other force-producing means, within the urban services district of the metropolitan government.

 

C. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, nothing in this section is intended to prohibit the discharge or firing of any firearms by anyone:

1.While in the lawful performance of duty as an officer of the law; or

2.Within a legally established shooting range or shooting gallery where precautions have been taken to insure the protection of human life and property; or

3.Lawfully engaged in hunting, as permitted by the state, upon any property located within the urban services district of the metropolitan government; or

4. Legally defending person or property.

(Ord. 99-1775 § 1, 1999; Amdt. 1 to Ord. 96-295, 6/4/96; Ord. 96-295 § 1, 1996)

Edited July 7, 2015 by monkeylizard

[monkeylizard]

It means even if police learn whose bullet lodged into Michaud's arm, that person won't be charged.
 

 

Not charged criminally, perhaps, but there could still be a civil suit if the shooter could be found.

[LagerHead]

Not charged criminally, perhaps, but there could still be a civil suit if the shooter could be found.

 

I think a little homemade justice wouldn't be unwarranted (no pun intended) at this point.

[10-Ring]

I'm sorry but if you fire a weapon you are 100 percent responsible for where that bullet goes. It is negligent to fire into the air, period.

[monkeylizard]

But apparently not criminally negligent in Davidson Co.

[Oh Shoot]

But apparently not criminally negligent in Davidson Co.

 

My point though, if they can prove who fired them, it's still illegal to discharge the weapons even in a completely safe manner.

 

Of course, so is shooting fireworks there I guess, and both are likely the same level of local misdemeanor.

 

- OS

[Patton]

Somethings to consider are that city ordinances can present problems when law enforcement try to enforce them. The last city I worked in I could not arrest for a city ordinance because our judge was appointed and not elected. It was only an issue when the refused the citation or refused to show for court. They were able to put liens on property if they refused to show or refused to sign. If it was a moving violation that was a city ordinance I don't know what we would have done. Another thing, I could only cite for a municiple code if I saw it happen. When the fireworks or guns were up when I arrived, even if they admitted to it, I couldn't cite.

[monkeylizard]

My point though, if they can prove who fired them, it's still illegal to discharge the weapons even in a completely safe manner.

 

Of course, so is shooting fireworks there I guess, and both are likely the same level of local misdemeanor.

 

- OS

 

But the article said that even if the police could prove who fired the shots, the magistrate won't hand down a warrant. That means it's effectively not a criminal act regardless of what the municpal code says. That makes it sort of like the old ordinances in some TN towns that say a man has to walk in front of an automobile waving 2 red or orange flags if a woman is driving, to warn pedestrians and other drivers. It's still on the books in some places, but not enforced so it may as well not be there.

Edited July 7, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Oh Shoot]

But the article said that even if the police could prove who fired the shots, the magistrate won't hand down a warrant. That means it's effectively not a criminal act regardless of what the municpal code says. That makes it sort of like the old ordinances in some TN towns that say a man has to walk in front of an automobile waving 2 red or orange flags if a woman is driving, to warn pedestrians and other drivers. It's still on the books in some places, but not enforced so it may as well not be there.

 

I got impression from article that they wanted warrants for reckless endangerment. Which actually sounds like they mean the state charge to me? And since done with a gun, a felony to boot.  They don't seem to be talking about the simple local ordinance of discharging a firearm in city/metro/whatever limits?

 

"He cites a Tennessee law that states reckless endangerment must put "a person in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury". Nelson says shooting in the air, doesn't meet that threshold. Michaud disagrees, "I think if you shoot in a large crowd like that, you really are putting somebody in imminent danger.""

 

Then again, if it's like Patton's experience wherever that was - maybe they can't issue a warrant for that period? I dunno.

 

- OS

Edited July 7, 2015 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

Randomly shooting into the air...what are we in Iraq now?  That was their favorite holiday activity, most notably Saddam's birthday and the highlight days during Ramadan.  Sad to see some Tennesseans are no more evolved.

 

It should be a crime to discharge a firearm without a target, backstop, or enough empty land for the bullet to fall without hitting someone.  Firing into the air is an act of shear stupidity.  What goes up, must come down, and it will come down with enough force to cause injuries or worse.

[K191145]

My point though, if they can prove who fired them, it's still illegal to discharge the weapons even in a completely safe manner.

 

Of course, so is shooting fireworks there I guess, and both are likely the same level of local misdemeanor.

 

- OS

 

Every year it seems that happens somewhere in the country, maybe there should be a new law or sever penalty for reckless endangerment if your bullet injures or kills someone. Don't know what to call it, negligent assault or whatever, the same as if you texted and caused an accident injuring or killing someone. I've shot shotguns in the air straight up, I wouldn't do that with a solid projectile like a slug or bullet where I live. Of course it's only lethal if it's shot at an angle where it keeps its trajectory and enough velocity when it strikes a person, if shot straight up where it looses all velocity, stalls and freefalls back a standard 150 grain bullet will reach a terminal velocity which is not enough to penetrate flesh. Might make you say ouch when it bounces off your head. I think we may have talked about that before here.

[Oh Shoot]

....there should be a new law or sever penalty for reckless endangerment if your bullet injures or kills someone. ....

 
Already is, and you don't have to prove damage as an end result:
 --------------
39-13-103.  Reckless endangerment.
  (a) A person commits an offense who recklessly engages in conduct that places or may place another person in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury.
( b )  (1) Reckless endangerment is a Class A misdemeanor;
   (2) Reckless endangerment committed with a deadly weapon is a Class E felony;
   (3) Reckless endangerment by discharging a firearm into a habitation, as defined under § 39-14-401, is a Class C felony, unless the habitation was unoccupied at the time of the offense, in which event it is a Class D felony;
   (4) In addition to the penalty authorized by this subsection ( b ), the court shall assess a fine of fifty dollars ($50.00) to be collected as provided in § 55-10-412( b ) and distributed as provided in § 55-10-412( c ).

------------

 

If folks are actually hurt, assault statute covers it. (doesn't have to be intentional, only "reckless")

 

If someone killed, we have reckless homicide statute.

 

- OS

[Jonnin]

it sounds like one person is the problem and that he will probably soon be looking for a new job.

[bud]

. Edited August 8, 2015 by bud

[K191145]

I just remembered something, years ago when doing HVAC service we had a customer, a tile maker/distributer on 51st. and Michigan in West Nashville. Maybe some here knows where that is. Well one day working on a roof top unit I noticed a 9mm bullet laying on the flat roof so I looked around some more, after a while I had a small handfull of 9 or .380, a .45 and a few .22s and some buck shot, no doubt collected on the roof for some years. I gave them to the owner who laughed and said he wasn't surprised. This company had a chain link fence all around the back with barbed wire on top and an armed guard at night, at least a sign that said armed guard, they needed it in that hood.

[Pain103]

Been going on for years. Perfectly legal to shoot in the general services district until I believe 8pm. Basically the general services district is the old Davidson County area and the urban services is the old Nashville city limits. I hate the metro government it's just a huge cluster of crap.

[Hershmeister]

Good to know that at least the law of gravity is still working [emoji12] Edited July 8, 2015 by Hershmeister

[Jonnin]

Lost me there- whose job is at stake?

 

 

whoever is refusing to sign for the arrests, the magistrate(s)?    They are clearly ignoring the "shoot in city limits" law and by doing so are aiding the lawbreakers who have injured people.   This sounds like grounds for a performance review....  how many of them are there, really?   Its probably not a lot of people.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jonnin