Carrying into someone's home?

[jgradyc]

Drinking and even having it in the car is illegal. You of course can do it, but realize the consequences if you do and get caught.

Someone help me out here. Is this true?  I thought the law was 1) You can't drink and carry... restaurants, bars, parties, etc. 2) You can't be intoxicated and carry... a blood alcohol content of greater than .08 percent.

 

What about leaving one's gun in the car while having one beer with dinner and then reholstering when one gets back to the car?  As long as you're under .08 and not impaired (tired, taking meds, etc) isn't that legal? 

[DaveTN]

Someone help me out here. Is this true?  I thought the law was 1) You can't drink and carry... restaurants, bars, parties, etc. 2) You can't be intoxicated and carry... a blood alcohol content of greater than .08 percent.
 
What about leaving one's gun in the car while having one beer with dinner and then reholstering when one gets back to the car?  As long as you're under .08 and not impaired (tired, taking meds, etc) isn't that legal?

The law doesn’t have a BAC requirement. Most people don’t know what their BAC is. Are you going to blow? If you blow a .08 or above its DUI, if its below you can still be charged with Possession of handgun while under influence. There is no requirement for impairment.

[crossfire]

A lot of us consider ourselves totally responsible for the security of our families in our homes, and part of that is exercising total control over who comes into the house armed and who doesn't. Having a concealed pistol aboard doesn't make one a good guy. Having a carry permit doesn't either. Nor does being a life member of TGO or being able to spell RKBA in seventeen different languages. What makes one a good guy for purposes of me admitting him into my home and into the presence of my family is trustworthy conduct, and that trustworthy conduct is forfeit in my book when someone I don't know comes into my house armed without informing me of that fact beforehand. That's where I'm coming from, and I'm certainly not alone in feeling this way.

This :up: . Rule #1...... It's my house, it's not Burger King, you do it my way, or not at all. If this rule was good enough for my kids when they lived here, it should be good enough for any guests. EssOne is right in my book. It is his choice who comes into his house armed and who doesn't. Just as it's my choice at my house.  I also agree with btq96r, Its a matter of courtesy. We are not talking about public places we're talking about private homes.

 

Hope the OP lets us know what he did.

[FortKnox]

Just my two cents:

Personally, I do not disclose that I am armed. Among family (those who know I carry) they have asked before and I told them that yes, I was armed at the time. Now they simply assume I am and no longer bother to ask.

I don't feel the need to tell people I carry, since it is none of their business. If asked by someone I know well, than I would inform.

[EssOne]

Well, given the South Carolina statute Mike.357 posted above, somebody's entire state government thought that carrying into a private residence without permission is a criminal act deserving of some pretty stiff criminal penalties for doing so - a minimum fine of a thousand bucks, up to a year in jail, or both, and forfeiture of your HCP for five years. Guess I'm not the only hardass on the subject, huh?  

[TNWNGR]

I don't like having un-vetted armed people in my house or being in another house as a guest and encounter the same circumstances. Many years spent in police work taught me that suspicion was prudent to personal safety. If I invite you into my house I've already found out a bit about you and either been told you have a HCP or asked you if you do. I will recropricate in such informational exchanges and ensure you know I routinely carry a concealed handgun. If alcohol is being served or consumed in your home either I won't attend the get together or will simply leave my handgun in my homes gun safe. I expect you to either do the same or request I secure it in my gun safe for you to retrieve the next day. I've seen first hand incidents of what happens at parties where drinking and guns are brought together and massive group think (or lack thereof) stupidity take place. Yes I'm hard nosed and can be rude as heck about this stuff.

[FortKnox]

Well, given the South Carolina statute Mike.357 posted above, somebody's entire state government thought that carrying into a private residence without permission is a criminal act deserving of some pretty stiff criminal penalties for doing so - a minimum fine of a thousand bucks, up to a year in jail, or both, and forfeiture of your HCP for five years. Guess I'm not the only hardass on the subject, huh?

True but, we're not talking about South Carolina but, Tennessee were you don't have to and the worse that can happen is they ask you to leave.

[EssOne]

I see. So we won't respect another man's home without a law saying we must, and that lack of respect becomes OK because we can't be prosecuted for it. Right. Got it.

[FortKnox]

I see. So we won't respect another man's home without a law saying we must, and that lack of respect becomes OK because we can't be prosecuted for it. Right. Got it.

Not saying that. You were saying what would happen in SC and I was telling you what would happen in TN, the state the OP is in.

[zennashton]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Say you are having the party. Your friends invite some of their friends that you do not know. Do you want those strangers in YOUR home with guns? They may be wanted felons for all you know. May not even be licensed. And add in drinking?

[EssOne]

The point of the post about the South Carolina statute was to interject into the conversation evidence that, contrary to what a lot of people posting in this thread seem to think,  a substantial number of people in this country think carrying into a residence unnanounced is offensive, some even to a point of criminality.  I'm well aware that Tennessee has no such statute.

 

I really find it incongruous that the same guys who will go to hell and back to defend the rule that "a man's home is his castle" will toss that rule aside so readily when it comes to carrying their guns into that castle without permission.

Edited July 6, 2015 by EssOne

[teecro]

I really find it incongruous that the same guys who will go to hell and back to defend the rule that "a man's home is his castle" will toss that rule aside so readily when it comes to carrying their guns into that castle without permission.

 

You noted that too eh?

[EssOne]

You noted that too eh?

 

Hard to miss.

[300winmag]

The problem with telling every homeowner that you are carrying is that some people would be taking a gun on and off all the time.  If you are a realtor showing houses, you'd be leaving a gun in the car a lot where it doesn't do you any good.  I understand where folks are coming from, but in a lot of cases it is in my opinion better to keep quiet and keep concealed than for others to know that you carry, especially people who carry when they work.  A gun is much more secure when concealed on someone's person than left in a car where it can be stolen. 

[Jonsaiga]

I am a firm believer that a person's home is their castle and they have every right to choose who they let into it or not for whatever reason(s). Same way I believe every business has every right to do the same. The simple solution to this whole issue is to make it known before it happens instead of freaking out when does. If you don't want to do it verbally with every house guest put a gun-busters sign/sticker up on your door, or come up with some other method to make it loud and clear. I don't notify every single business I walked into that I armed and make sure it is kosher with them, nor do I do that when visiting friends and family's homes. I don't see this as a respect or disrespect issue because to me my carry guns are not a taboo thing. They are simply tools, just another part of my edc attire. Every time you go out in public, whether knowingly or unknowingly, you are around other people who are armed. I guess I just don't see the difference just because you have invited them into your home. If you do, well that is your prerogative but I still say you need to make it known ahead of time or not freak out when ya find out someone is carrying. 

[dawgdoc]

The point of the post about the South Carolina statute was to interject into the conversation evidence that, contrary to what a lot of people posting in this thread seem to think,  a substantial number of people in this country think carrying into a residence unnanounced is offensive, some even to a point of criminality.  I'm well aware that Tennessee has no such statute.

 

I really find it incongruous that the same guys who will go to hell and back to defend the rule that "a man's home is his castle" will toss that rule aside so readily when it comes to carrying their guns into that castle without permission.

 

From what I have read here, I don't think anyone is saying to carry a gun in spite of a homeowner's wishes.  Rather that carrying is a non-issue that they don't feel the need to ask a homeowner anymore than they need to ask a business owner who hasn't posted a sign.  In other words, lack of specific prohibition notice equates to the "king" is ok with you carrying.

 

Let's take the "man's home is castle" analogy a little further.  Did each and every knight remove his sword before entering the castle?  Or did the king (at least then non-paranoid ones) understand that an armed man can enter his domain without automatically being a danger?  Did the king not even expect his guest to potentially defend the castle if needed?

 

I'll share a quote from a poster on GeorgiaPacking.Org that I find relevant to this situation: 

When I wear a gun in someone's house or in their company, I'm saying, "I'll defend this house and those in it as though they were my own family."

Anyone who objects is leveling the deadliest insult possible, "I won't trust you until you render yourself defenseless."

 

 

I completely understand that you can make rules for your own property, but I don't think you should get upset if someone breaks a rule they don't know about.

Edited July 6, 2015 by dawgdoc

[Jonsaiga]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Say you are having the party. Your friends invite some of their friends that you do not know. Do you want those strangers in YOUR home with guns? They may be wanted felons for all you know. May not even be licensed. And add in drinking?

If they are really wanted felons....... illegally carrying guns........ and drinking...... do you really think they are going to give a crap whether or not your feelings are hurt that they didn't announce they were illegally carrying a gun while being on the run from the law???? Sounds like you need better friends!! lol 

 

If I have invited someone into my home then it is because I trust them and that includes their judgement as to who is acceptable as an additional guest. 

 

I do agree guns and alcohol don't mix but again I think it is up to the party host. They are responsible to make it known that anyone drinking should not be armed.

[Jonsaiga]

From what I have read here, I don't think anyone is saying to carry a gun in spite of a homeowner's wishes.  Rather that carrying is a non-issue that they don't feel the need to ask a homeowner anymore than they need to ask a business owner who hasn't posted a sign. 

 

 

I completely understand that you can make rules for your own property, but I don't think you should get upset if someone breaks a rule they don't know about.

THIS^

[zennashton]

Lol I know and work around alot of felons that's true. Goes with my occupation. I might be a little jaded in my old age.
I'm pretty sure most felons would not come to a party that I would have.

[EssOne]

...................................................... I just don't see the difference just because you have invited them into your home................................ 

 

If you don't recognize that particular difference then there is no sense in continuing this discussion any farther.

[Jonsaiga]

If you don't recognize that particular difference then there is no sense in continuing this discussion any farther.

Again make it known ahead of time and avoid the butt hurt.

[crossfire]

If you don't recognize that particular difference then there is no sense in continuing this discussion any farther.

Agree,^

Kind of like pounding your head against a brick wall. It feels so good when you stop! :wall:

Edited July 6, 2015 by crossfire

[zapfbroad]

For all the people who say to leave it in the vehicle:

39-17-1321.  Possession of handgun while under influence -- Penalty. 

  (a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue.

( B) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

   (1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102, are served for consumption on the premises; and

   (2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision ( B)(1).

(c)  (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

   (2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (c)(1), if the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in subdivision ( B)(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with § 39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

___________________________________________________________________

 

While I'm not a lawyer I would interpret this to mean(why does the law have so many sunglass wearing emoticons?):

A firearm in the trunk or glove box or even in a locked case unloaded yet contained within the vehicle would still amount to possession if you could reasonably gain access to it or are operating the vehicle in which case possession of all contents there within are assumed to be within your control and you would be held liable for even if not the owner of said vehicle. e.g. if you were pulled over while driving your friend or family member's vehicle and drug paraphernalia were found within the trunk of the vehicle.

Any indication that you have been consuming would run the risk of hcp suspension as well as misdemeanor. So if this is your current modus operandi regarding carrying & drinking you should probably start planning more carefully in advance.

 

 

The original post said:

 I've never met these people, but they are her friends, she has mentioned me to them and they specifically requested that I come so that they can meet me. 

 

There is a possibility that she mentioned he was a gun toting freedom loving 'murican. This could be verified with her and make this entire discussion moot. For the sake of theater we'll assume she glossed over his love of black forged steel (or unforged polymer, happy?) that propels the fiery and righteous wrath of Mordor at 1147 fps to thine sworn enemies...

 

Does he have a guest list of who else besides him may be a +1-3 in attendance ? If you host a party, especially a holiday event where it is sometimes understood that unexpected individuals may put in appearances, it is reasonable to assume that all manner of baggage and unsavoriness may accompany them that you had not intended nor could anticipate. Random animals, virulent colds, generally guaranteed social inappropriateness not associated with inebriation, etc. Is this a small intimate gathering of known associates plus he the unsuspecting guest of honor or will there potentially be more invitees that may not be acquainted except in name only to the girlfriend? Without considerably more information he reasonably struggles to make a decision about how to thus equip. Sure he could shed all concern and just jubilantly jump along singing "it's a paaarrrrtttyyyy!" and dive headlong into the pool in his skivvies. 

 

While some people may travel in very tight circles others have many fast and loose associations and without a firm idea of who would actually be in attendance it would be safe to assume that in the fashion of six degrees of separation you could incidentally find yourself sharing a backyard with a verifiable reprobate that some poor misguided sheep thinks just always catches the bad breaks in life and has bad timing. What if other perpetual recidivists finally track down and wish to have a long discussion with your new found friend the reprobate? 

 

Go ahead and call me debbie-downer but hey I've already defied statistics because of it. 

By the way I love this:

Anyone who objects is leveling the deadliest insult possible, "I won't trust you until you render yourself defenseless."

[monkeylizard]

The way I read section (c ), the revocation of the HCP only applies if the violation occurs in an establishment described in (b )( 1). Correct?

 

 

 

 

 

The sunglasses are caused by not adding a space after the "b" in parenthesis. So

(b)

needs to be written as (b ).

 

Or you can use the [ code ] tag around the whole copy of the law. That's how I got the b to show properly above. Start with [ code ] and end with [ /code ] without the spaces in between the brackets. It will then show as follows. Nothing you can do about the color coding though as the board software then thinks it's a computer code language and it's trying to color code keywords:

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence -- Penalty. 

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance or controlled substance analogue.

(b) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102, are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (b)(1).

(c) (1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (c)(1), if the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in subdivision (b)(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with § 39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.





Edited July 6, 2015 by monkeylizard

[Oh Shoot]

The sunglasses are caused by not adding a space after the "b" in parenthesis.

Same with a "c" in parenthesis. With no spaces it becomes copyright symbol (c)

You can turn off emoticons in post too, but they seem to come back when someone quotes it. And that doesn't affect the (c) though.

- OS